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#376880 - 12/01/13 06:36 AM
Re: KETRON AUDYA Styles '70-'80
[Re: abacus]
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Member
Registered: 06/06/10
Posts: 793
Loc: Hellas, Creta, Iraklion
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The Art of a good Midi Drum Style is that the style is played on the equivalent Midi Instrument (Midi Drum Kit for example) by a real performer, as that way you have all the feelings and groove that you get in an audio style. (There’s a reason the loops (Particularly Drums) in VST are called grooves and not loops)
Bill My friend.... You are right... it is very big art... But i think is too big art to create a new audio style from (zero) If you think it's very easy to make a Audio style (from zero) I am willing to send to you the original Audio recording from Drums, and you can to create (from zero) with this audio Record a Audio Style (with midi sequence) like this of Audya..... I do not mean something (loops ready) but a single recording.... You must to make everything: 1) Audio Mix of Audio Drums record... 2) Audio procesing, edit etc 3) Export one by one to audio loops 4) Audio quantize 5) Backing sequence and arrange (different file) for drummer (to record) 6) Audio Mastering and Balance for Audio loops files... and and and...... And of course you need a very good equipment and Studio or Home Studio for this.... I respect your opinion but I think that is not easy to build a complete audio style from (zero)....
Edited by Sokratis 1974 (12/01/13 06:46 AM)
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Style Producer Ketron Event, Ketron Audya 76, Audya 5, SD9, SD1,Yamaha Genos, Korg Pa3x, microarranger, Roland Fantom G6, V-Synth XT, XV-5080, SH201, D-50, Novation KS4, Dave Smith Evolver
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#376884 - 12/01/13 06:52 AM
Re: KETRON AUDYA Styles '70-'80
[Re: Sokratis 1974]
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Senior Member
Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
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The Art of a good Midi Drum Style is that the style is played on the equivalent Midi Instrument (Midi Drum Kit for example) by a real performer, as that way you have all the feelings and groove that you get in an audio style. (There’s a reason the loops (Particularly Drums) in VST are called grooves and not loops)
Bill My friend.... You are right... it is very big art... But i think is too big art to create a new audio style from (zero) If you think it's very easy to make a Audio style (from zero) I am willing to send to you the original Audio recording from Drums, and you can to create (from zero) with this audio Record a Audio Style (with midi sequence) like this of Audya..... I do not mean something (loops ready) but a single recording.... You must to make everything: 1) Audio Mix of Audio Drums record... 2) Audio procesing, edit etc 3) Export one by one to audio loops 4) Audio quantize 5) Backing sequence and arrange (different file) for drummer (to record) 6) Audio Mastering and Balance for Audio loops files... and and and...... And of course you need a very good equipment and Studio or Home Studio for this.... I respect your opinion but I think that is not easy to build a complete audio style from (zero).... i dont think you understood what Bill meant to say..
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#376888 - 12/01/13 07:41 AM
Re: KETRON AUDYA Styles '70-'80
[Re: Bachus]
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Member
Registered: 06/06/10
Posts: 793
Loc: Hellas, Creta, Iraklion
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The Art of a good Midi Drum Style is that the style is played on the equivalent Midi Instrument (Midi Drum Kit for example) by a real performer, as that way you have all the feelings and groove that you get in an audio style. (There’s a reason the loops (Particularly Drums) in VST are called grooves and not loops)
Bill My friend.... You are right... it is very big art... But i think is too big art to create a new audio style from (zero) If you think it's very easy to make a Audio style (from zero) I am willing to send to you the original Audio recording from Drums, and you can to create (from zero) with this audio Record a Audio Style (with midi sequence) like this of Audya..... I do not mean something (loops ready) but a single recording.... You must to make everything: 1) Audio Mix of Audio Drums record... 2) Audio procesing, edit etc 3) Export one by one to audio loops 4) Audio quantize 5) Backing sequence and arrange (different file) for drummer (to record) 6) Audio Mastering and Balance for Audio loops files... and and and...... And of course you need a very good equipment and Studio or Home Studio for this.... I respect your opinion but I think that is not easy to build a complete audio style from (zero).... i dont think you understood what Bill meant to say.. Maybe.... I'm sorry if I said something bad My apologies......I had no such intentions ....
Edited by Sokratis 1974 (12/01/13 07:46 AM)
_________________________
Style Producer Ketron Event, Ketron Audya 76, Audya 5, SD9, SD1,Yamaha Genos, Korg Pa3x, microarranger, Roland Fantom G6, V-Synth XT, XV-5080, SH201, D-50, Novation KS4, Dave Smith Evolver
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#376891 - 12/01/13 08:39 AM
Re: KETRON AUDYA Styles '70-'80
[Re: abacus]
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Senior Member
Registered: 02/23/01
Posts: 3849
Loc: Rome - Italy
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The Art of a good Midi Drum Style is that the style is played on the equivalent Midi Instrument (Midi Drum Kit for example) by a real performer, as that way you have all the feelings and groove that you get in an audio style. (There’s a reason the loops (Particularly Drums) in VST are called grooves and not loops)
Bill I am sorry but I have to disagree... big time! If you listen to the example posted by Sokratis on Soundcloud the part that NO midi kit will EVER be able to reproduce is not the flashy (albeit impressive) intro with all the drum rolls, but the little fills played on the hi-hat and the cymbals, and do you know why? Because everytime a drummer hits an hi-hat or a cymbal it does so not only with a different strength (that you can somehow try to mimick with the midi velocity), but also in a different place of its surface and also with a different angle of the stick and this difference you cannot reproduce with samples taken at different velocities. A cymbal can have a diameter of 40, 50 or more centimeters and every part of its surface will sound different, not just the center (often called bell) or the rim. And the hi-hat, even if has a much smaller diameter, is even more challenging, because a real drummer will never hit it with the same degree of "openness" and this variability you cannot reproduce with just three samples (closed hi-hat, mid hi-hat and open hi-hat). Combine these with the differences in velocity and angle and the possibilities become almost endless. That's the reason why a real drummer playing an acoustic drum kit for "X" bars will always sound more authentic than the same drummer triggering a sampled drum kit through a series of electronic pads, for the same amount of bars. You may call them grooves, loops or whatever, but they will never "breathe" in the same way. BTW: the same principle applies for all the percussions, with the possible exception of the kick, where the felt hits the drum always in the same place and with the same angle; the only thing that changes is the strength (equivalent to the midi velocity).
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Korg Kronos 61 and PA3X-Pro76, Roland G-70, BK7-m and Integra 7, Casio PX-5S, Fender Stratocaster with Fralin pickups, Fender Stratocaster with Kinman pickups, vintage Gibson SG standard.
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#376893 - 12/01/13 08:46 AM
Re: KETRON AUDYA Styles '70-'80
[Re: Sokratis 1974]
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Senior Member
Registered: 02/23/01
Posts: 3849
Loc: Rome - Italy
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I'm sorry if I said something bad My apologies......I had no such intentions .... Sokratis, there is nothing to apologize for; you are not only a musician, but also a sound engineer with first hand experience on the field and thus much more entitled and qualified to express your opinion compared with many others, self proclaimed experts. I actually wish that you could post more, both here and on the Ketron Forum, because I, for one, value greatly your input.
_________________________
Korg Kronos 61 and PA3X-Pro76, Roland G-70, BK7-m and Integra 7, Casio PX-5S, Fender Stratocaster with Fralin pickups, Fender Stratocaster with Kinman pickups, vintage Gibson SG standard.
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#376894 - 12/01/13 08:54 AM
Re: KETRON AUDYA Styles '70-'80
[Re: Bachus]
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Senior Member
Registered: 02/23/01
Posts: 3849
Loc: Rome - Italy
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While the audya audio styles are mostly superb, i think the solo play instruments are one step behind yamaha, roland, korg... There is nothing like the SA2 or ensemble instruments in the Tyros range for example... I agree: if we could combine the Audya audio styles with many of the Yamaha (or Korg) sounds we would have the ultimate arranger; that's the reason why I had so many hopes for the Tyros 5 and its audio styles... unfortunately they were the biggest letdown of all: not only there are just 40 of them, but they are bland exactly like the midi styles and to make things worse they have also short loops, so after a while they too sound boring and repetitive. What a waisted opportunity!
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Korg Kronos 61 and PA3X-Pro76, Roland G-70, BK7-m and Integra 7, Casio PX-5S, Fender Stratocaster with Fralin pickups, Fender Stratocaster with Kinman pickups, vintage Gibson SG standard.
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#376896 - 12/01/13 09:07 AM
Re: KETRON AUDYA Styles '70-'80
[Re: Sokratis 1974]
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Senior Member
Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
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I respect your opinion but I think that is not easy to build a complete audio style from (zero).... I was lucky enough, as I was still working for Yamaha, to see a very well made and interesting video of the process used to make Yamaha's S950 Audio Drum styles. You are totally correct...it is far from easy. Yamaha even went to the trouble of using the same drums, mixing board and effects units, as well as recreating or using the original studio environment. And that was just for drums. Ketron goes a good deal further, and does much the same with bass and guitar parts. The styles sound like a "real" band, because, essentially, they are a real band. Ian
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Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.
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