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#379927 - 12/30/13 09:04 AM Re: Trying new mic [Re: DonM]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Tony, thanks, and you are right, I guess you have to consider it was a Kid Rock/Cheryl Crow song. smile I always liked it. I don't do it often, but someone requested it, and I thought the recording came out pretty well.
The VH setting is one voice, a third up, changed to female gender, with effects rolled back some on the harmony voice.
Thanks for the other nice comments, and Serge, thanks for posting the link for Andrea.
For the guitar sound, I didn't load the entire set, just the patches. Just open the folders down to the sounds and load into Performance slots you aren't using. There are eight Performances and the one I used was Virage Tremelo.
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DonM

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#379932 - 12/30/13 09:16 AM Re: Trying new mic [Re: DonM]
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Don ... yes, the recording came out very well ...thanks for that info ... THAT is the kind of info that should be shared on this forum, as it certainly helps others ...
I ASS-U-ME you used the VH on the KORG ... do you know if the VH in the Pa3x is the same as the one in the Pa900? ...
thanks again
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#379937 - 12/30/13 09:24 AM Re: Trying new mic [Re: DonM]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Yes, it was the PA3X. I don't know if it is the same as the 900. Uncle Dave will know.

As for the MAXX settings, I did play around with them a lot, but I pretty much leave it the way they are now, with occasional slight adjustments for extreme rooms, such as a room with a lot of glass, or the other extreme, a lot of carpet and wall covers.

On the E.Q. section, everything is flat except for a slight boost about 7k. On the audio section, I have boosted bass, treble, and stereo all about halfway up. I have boosted volume to 75%. The PA3X seems come with a reduced volume level out of the box, and boosting this setting brings it up to a more normal level of "hotness".
Hope this helps.
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DonM

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#379940 - 12/30/13 09:27 AM Re: Trying new mic [Re: DonM]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Don, this is fine work, indeed. The guitar is about as good as it gets. You have the technique down pretty solid, I have to say.

Singing was just as good, voice nice and clear, pitch very good, and vocal not too loud over the music...nice tune, too.

Nice stuff all around, buddy.

Ian
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#379985 - 12/30/13 02:18 PM Re: Trying new mic [Re: DonM]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14266
Loc: NW Florida
Personally, if a keyboard has a slightly lower overall output level than others, I wouldn't fix it by boosting it internally. One always HOPES that the guys making it know their business, and probably set it up so even the heaviest, loudest, most busy and dense style doesn't overload the internal D/A converters, or hit the Maxx too hot. After all, these ARE digital devices. It doesn't matter WHERE you exceed digital 0db, once you do, nothing can fix the issue other than turning down the ENTIRE arranger's styles to keep the intended balance.

Unless the outputs are noisy (one assumes they are not) simply run your mixer's gain a bit hotter to compensate for the 'safer' levels. Modern arrangers have so much extra gain coming from master EQ's and compressors, it's easy to take it too far (I'm not a big fan of the modern trend to hype and compress the sound of everything... it simply makes it flat and undynamic once the initial 'wow!' wears off).
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#379996 - 12/30/13 02:46 PM Re: Trying new mic [Re: Diki]
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Not sure this is what you are talking about Diki, but when I first got the Pa600 I thought it wasn't loud enough so I started adjusting the EQs ... then when I was playing some Big Band styles, and big Latin styles I was overloading the internal speakers like crazy and there were some harsh sounds coming from them ... I lowered the EQs and the internal speakers were fine ...
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t. cool

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#380000 - 12/30/13 03:20 PM Re: Trying new mic [Re: DonM]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
All my meter levels are fine, both on the keyboard and mixer.
I run everything on the mixer flat, it is really only there for extra mics or channels for other instruments or inputs, if ever needed.
It is possible to boost the MAXX bass and/or treble enough to cause distortion or noise, but the volume parameter can safely be raised quite a bit, and in fact it is agreed by most users that it is helpful, if not necessary, to get a hot enough output level. There have been complaints that the output is not hot enough by new users that have not discovered this adjustment. Apparently former PAX models didn't have it and were hotter out of the box.
I've tried pretty hard to get a handle on what the MAXX circuitry actually does, but I'm pretty much trusting my ears, and they tell me that the sound is better the way I have it than if it is left flat. Again, I don't do much at all with the e.q. settings, in the other section of the MAXX menu. Not necessary except possibly in extreme venues.
Now, the mic input level is VERY critical, and depending on the mic you use, it may be necessary to reduce the level of the styles and/or lead voices to allow enough gain on the mic. I have a mic or two that just marginally have enough gain, and I have one condenser mic that is too HOT to be usable no matter what I do, even to the extent of running it through a mixer channel first and rolling it way back there and then sending it to the keyboard input.
With the exception of this one mic, all the others I've tried can be e.q.d and adjusted to sound good.
There are two ways to use the mic. First, TC Helicon has included automatic processing that samples the mic signal and instantly adjusts the parameters to your voice, optimizing the e.q. You can dial up or down the amount of automatic processing. The Compressor, Gate, De-esser settings also work the same way.
Or, you can do everything manually, setting e.q. levels for lows, mids and highs, with adjustable band parameters as well. You can also do the compressor, etc., either manually or automatically, independent of your choice of e.q. modes.
On this recording I used the automatic mic processing, set to 30%. I have tried levels all the way up to 100% and this sounds best to me. Any higher and you start fighting high end feedback if you are too close to the PA. There is also an independent automatic setting labeled Warmth, which when selected adds additional processing that seems to add a little more sparkle to the high end and at the same time a little more warmth to the mids. In other words the mic circuitry is very sophisticated and allows you to waste untold time playing with settings if you wish! smile
On the external Harmony M processor that I formerly used, I always turned the automatic processor all the way to 100% and it sounded great to me. This one has way more "stuff".


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DonM

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#380014 - 12/30/13 04:16 PM Re: Trying new mic [Re: tony mads usa]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14266
Loc: NW Florida
Originally Posted By: tony mads usa
Not sure this is what you are talking about Diki, but when I first got the Pa600 I thought it wasn't loud enough so I started adjusting the EQs ... then when I was playing some Big Band styles, and big Latin styles I was overloading the internal speakers like crazy and there were some harsh sounds coming from them ... I lowered the EQs and the internal speakers were fine ...


Yep... that's about it. Maybe the PA3X got the same styles as a reference point, but because it doesn't have built-in speakers, the distortion that the busiest styles might have if boosted is not the same issue?
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#380028 - 12/30/13 05:00 PM Re: Trying new mic [Re: Diki]
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Most likely not, because I can boost those EQs up and put a 1/4 inch plug in the headphone outlet to cut off the on board speakers and there is no distortion ... then it is just what the PA speakers can handle ...


Edited by tony mads usa (12/30/13 05:01 PM)
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t. cool

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#380037 - 12/30/13 05:25 PM Re: Trying new mic [Re: DonM]
billyhank Offline
Member

Registered: 09/07/12
Posts: 322
The MAXX is the last thing handling the output signal and with powered speakers only, it acts the same as being adjusted in an external mixer.

No doubt about it Don, your settings bring out some very nice sounds on my Pa3X too.

The Pa900 does not have the MAXX section, although it does have similar adjustments and I never used them with the internal speakers, but I sure do with my external speakers and it makes the Pa900 sound much more alive.

And - with the external speakers, the two keyboards sound amazingly alike.

Bill G


Edited by billyhank (12/30/13 05:27 PM)

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