This is for the new Tyros 5 owners. Just wondering if you are feeling the same thing as I do let say that the T 5 is awesome. But I am have a little trouble adjusting to the sound it is good and different It feel so direct that it feels like it looses a little of it overall fullness coming from the T 4 and it sound I find my self struggling a bit here

The overall mix exp on midi files seems too dry to me the sound is very direct I have used it for 4 shows and at lower volume it seems to feel a little thiner the the T 4. Over all now I know I can adjust it. But I might just end to get used to it. My audience seems to not notice much I asked one of the bartenders last night he said he noticed something different. But he said different in a good way .

I have used the T 4 for 3 years so I have gotten used to the sound So I might just need to try to get used to it.

The T 4 seem to have more reverb and sometimes too much the T 5 seems to have gone a different direction and less effect and a more crisp sound that gives me the feel of a little thiner sound over all. Any suggestions. Mostly on midi files maybe it is a EQ thing both are set to flat.

Going by the on-line Tyros5 demos vs my own Tyros4 experience, I find the latter has a warmer more mellow sound...which I prefer.

I will get an opportunity to play a Tyros5-76 in a week or so, as I'm doing an in-home clinic/tutorial with a new owner. He has the same speaker system I use, which is a pair of Yamaha MS-60S powered monitors, so the comparison should be fair. I will duplicate master EQ settings as well, as part of the comparison.

I'm not much of a fan of dry sound...I love reverbs, delays and chorus on most of my sounds, but with an ear towards restraint on some of them. Synth sounds, especially solo mini-Moog types, really perk up a lot with effects.

Even the old Leslie 147RV's I used years ago were bought because of the on-board reverb.

One big advantage of the Tyros5 is that those who don't want any (or very little) effects are sure to be pleased, and you can always add what you want...with the T4 you can only remove so much.

Ian

Reverb is a big improvment from T4 too T5.It is more natural and much higher quality then before.Which makes the whole thing sound much more natural.It also depends where do people play too.All that reverb on drums doesn't seem too much when you play home ,but once you go out live on a big system it sounds terible.Like from the well.
I will never understand this and it goes with all manufactures.
You probably have to get used too more natural sound of the keyboard.Reverb and delay should compliment the sound, not be the sound.

I'm going with Ian on this one, I don't like dry sound - it's just not natural. When you're performing with a band in a large hall, the sound bounces around like a ping-pong ball, thus the walls, ceiling, floors windows, naturally all produce some reverb, echo and delay. So why would you want your arranger keyboard to sound as if you were in a soundproof room - it would not be natural at all. Even when performing outdoors, there is some echo, reverberation and delay, sound bouncing from objects near and far.

Gary

To me reverb and other effects are like spices one adds to a recipe...some dishes need very little, some need more, some are actually based on the spice's flavor.

If I'm doing a tune using a small jazz combo style, I tend to ease off on certain effects, especially if I'm trying to simulate a small nightclub setting with carpets and drapes and a low ceiling.

For a lot of my synth and guitar solos the effects are more an integral part of the overall sound than just enhancing it.

I try to think of the environment or venue the tune is being played in and work from there.

Of course, if you are playing in a big hall with lots of echo, reverb would be hardly needed.

Again it's like adding spices or seasoning...know when enough is enough.

Ian

With a little edditing you can make the T5 sound almost like aT4
With no edditing in the world you can make a T4 like a T5..

Its simple you can not create whats not there, but you can allways hide what is there..

To me this doesn't sound logical. The 'natural' reverb comes from the room (or outdoor environment) you are in - exactly as you describe for the band situation. So, if you play the arranger, you also have the natural reverb created by the room. Why add additional reverb from the sound processor? It wouldn't sound like a soundproof, sterile room anyway. It's different with recording via cable: THEN you really need reverb to simulate a room.
The whole thing also depends on whether the individual sample already has some reverb included or not.
It's also a difference if you have a small or large instrumentaion. For symphony orchestra, you expect it to play in a large hall, then of course it's adequate to simulate a bigger hall than the one you're playing in (but to me that's already an artificial effect).

It's also important if you are happy (or not) with the way the instrument sounds out of box.

I was very pleased with the Tyros4's sound right away, and editing effects (and effects in styles) have only served to make it sound even better.

Ian

I have to be aware of too much reverb in certain venues, because I record via line out from my mixer or keyboard, and it generally needs a little reverb to sound right. However the room I'm in may not need as much for good live sound.
It's all easily corrected, but you have to be aware and LISTEN to your sound.

It also depends on how much reverb is inherent in the sample. For me, it was never an issue as the amount is generally minute.

It only matters if you want the sound totally dry, with no effect at all.

Obviously for some it may be an issue...it wasn't in my case.

Ian

Guys you are missing what I am saying here. It is a different sound live I play many. Different rooms and halls the T 5. Seem to not have as much warmth it has a great sound don't get me wrong here it is different. More direct and in you face it is taking a bit to get used to here .

I could use a bit more warmth over all I am running it direct for main out to K 8 and DSR 12 speakers at lower volume it feels a bit empty but maybe it has a more digital sound maybe I am missing mids range I can put my finger on it it does not have as much effect assigned in T5 then T 4. I think effect processer. Is different has a more in your face sound. I found this to be the case with the BK 9 as well I think in the audience it prob sounds great I guess it has a more pop type sound It took some time to get used to the T 4 sound when I made the switch from s910 G 70. Tonight I am doing a big Show at the Laguna Woods VIllage. With prob 400+ in audience I am going to run thru my mackie pro 8 mixer and send a feed to the house engineer. I will have a chance to set some EQ from the board I will see if that helps just it feel from my seat or playing position that I want a little more fullness Any thoughts. One last thing I am not questioning that is sounds I am looking to find that happy spot and haven't found it yet. It is much different playing live the playing in a home w Tyros speakers guys. Looking to find that happy spot and find a template I can use here. Ron

OK, chalk one for the Tyros 4...

But isn't that exactly what people wanted from a Tyros for all this time? It sounds like it's perfect for live performances.

Rosetree, much of this will depend upon your sound system. With conventional speakers, even those mounted on poles, the falloff is significant, therefore, the natural effects of the venue may not be as evident as they would with a vertical array system where the falloff is often less than 10 percent. If the falloff is less, then the natural effects will be significantly greater. When I worked with a band, the sound was always very loud, therefore, there was always a fair degree of natural effects generated. When I went to work as an OMB entertainer, I played at much lower volumes, therefore, I had to add more effects to obtain the desired level of overall sound quality I wanted to hear. A lot of the venues I performed had fully carpeted floors, full length draperies and suspended acoustical ceilings. That really sucked up a lot of sound and diminished any chance of natural effects. If you clapped your hand in one of those rooms and it was empty, you would not hear any echo, reverb, delay - nadda. Clap your hands in a gymnasium and wow!

Neat how all this stuff works, at least I think it's neat.

Gary

I totally agree what you say about the vertical array systems. We just made this experience with our band with a new PA (Nova i.nova 360) and asked ourselves why there is so much reverb even if we didn't use much digital reverb - the loudspeakers exploited every bit of the reverb the room had to offer.

This is the conundrum that live players face with most arrangers. As Ian so often points out, even the best of these (best from a pro player's perspective, anyway!) are set up for the home player, who's living room is VERY dead and small compared to most live venues.

I still think that the Master section, in addition to EQ and compression, should have a Global Reverb offset parameter.

It is impractical to adjust ALL your Performances and styles to sound their best in both environments (you usually create your setups at home, then go to the gig with them, and you often face various environments with more or less natural ambiance), but a global offset to the reverb amount parameter would allow you to do this simply, in one go.

Maybe it's time for something like this?

I agree with you Diki. I guess yamaha figures the you will use some hardware divide like a mixer ect to do a global type of sweeting. This is what I am facing. I am have some problems with my T 5. It going back. To yamaha for a fix my issues could be because of some of the problems I am having I use a live string patch on T 4 that is not on T 5 So I just cut and paste thie patch this will give the over all full ness a lift as well the string patches on T 5 are very harsh and lead to the problem I am having when I get it back I will get it dialed in

I did a show last night for around 500 people and many loved the sound in the house. So it is I that is having the problem getting used to the new direct sound.

It's definitely a two edged sword... set the instrument up so it sounds good to YOU, directly on top of the monitors, and those out in the room will suffer. Set it up for THEM, and you suffer!

There's no real way around this problem There's no way to add more reverb to the arranger at the mixer's monitor send on most boards, and even this will only muddy things up a hair, as the bass end gets reverb'd along with everything else.

But the bottom line is, are you playing to THEM, or to yourself? As a pro player, your goal should be to do whatever is best for them, and if that makes you less than comfortable, well, that's the price you pay!

You have probably heard me rail many times against user demos (and some factory stuff too, if the truth be told) that have the played part too loud, as players choose to listen to the part THEY are playing at more than it truly needs, and end up swamping the backing. To get a fully balanced mix out to your audience, there really is no way around getting used to things not being what WE want, but being what THEY want if you truly want to have your audience hear you at your very best.