18 years? I think it was 2004?

Hi Donny

Mine don't sound quite like that, must be me. LOL

Perhaps I should have some lessons.

Or maybe maths lessons for you, music lessons for me.

Col

Talk to Fran or Diki Im sure they can help...

Are you sure about the release being 18 years ago. I bought one new and it only seems like about 8 to 10 at most , or is time really going by this quickly? WOW!

According to this site it was released in 2005.

Perhaps it feels like 18 years if you have to pack it around a lot.

As most of you know, I've owned and sold three of these beauties. The reasons for selling each and every one are the bulk and weight. I don't need an at-home keyboard, so anything I have has to be much more portable than the G-70. That said, the G-70 is the best arranger I have ever owned. I love the sounds, the styles and the features. The vocal harmonizer is still one of the best out there. Recording and editing are simple enough that even I could use those features. The real drawbars are perfect for my style of playing and everything just feels and sounds so good when I play it. I miss my G-70's.

I now play a s950 and am very happy with it. If I could have all the features of the G-70 in the s950 body I'd be in heaven. I also have a BK-5 which I have hardly touched. It's not a G-70 or an s950 in any way, but I really haven't given it a chance. I've gotten quite used to the Yamaha OS and extras and don't want to invest any time learning to get around the BK-5. That's why I want to sell it. Somebody make me an offer...

Don't give up, Cass. A BK-9 and an iPad is a FAR better arranger than the G70 ever was. Lighter than the S950 too!

Basically, you like the G70 styles, those that aren't already in it can be added, and quickly tweaked to sound even better (the new drum kits up the stakes a lot), and the Hammond is SO much better, it is almost like an entirely new feature.

Sell that BK-5, get a BK-9. And buy a decent outboard harmonizer (they beat ANY in arranger one hands down!). I bet you it makes you take a second look at that S950. It IS a G70 in an S950 body, in many ways!

boy thats a lot of gear to hook & break down and travel with on a gig!! iPad, VH box, KB, all kinds of adapters & wireds speakers, mic, stands, vs a S950 with all that onboard & a powered speaker !!!

And if the S950 did a fraction of what the BK-9 and an iPad does, had a decent 76 action, and a VH that was even a fraction as good as a dedicated standalone, I'd buy one in a flash!

Apples and oranges, Donny...

S950 is More then capable. ....

If you don't want a 76, if you don't want a Chord Sequencer, if you don't want audio loops with your styles, if you don't want a GREAT Hammond sim, and if you think built-in VH's are worth a damn (I don't!), sure...

It's a great arranger!

I loved my G70 used it for 5 years but the T 4 IS WAY BETTER

but I will say I really love the G 70 someday I will buy one just for the hell of it again .

Way better FOR YOU. My needs differ from yours, so the reverse applies for me!

But they are both great keyboards.

Unfortunately, folks use weight as a valuation of "better"..

I can not think of single keyboard line that the heavier keyboard was not the better keyboard..

Personal taste is what makes the right decision for us..but should not make it "way better" in other folks decisions..

I only compared side by side the Tyros3 and G70...the G70 was ...."way better"..

SMF play, and all editing was better on the G70...and honestly ..most of the sounds on the G70 were better...especially drums, organ, and piano..
Personal taste..I am sure..

....lets HEAR the difference....
that's the only way to compare, if one was really BEST everyone would have it.... and even after that NONE is Better that's a silly statement both are very capable.

It's kind of like cars... generally, more quality construction equals more weight. Until you get to carbon fiber exotics, a Rolls weighs more than a Camry..!

I must admit though, I'm very surprised about the weight/performance ratio on the BK-9. The action is easily the equivalent of a PA3 or T5 (minus the aftertouch), and as a pure 'arranger', the BK-9 is a FAR better arranger than the G70.

And Donny... You are in a position to PROVIDE the very thing you keep baiting other people to do for you. And not only that, have owned most of them we are talking about. If that didn't educate you, asking others to do it all over again isn't going to improve things.

We have had 'shootouts' up the wazoo here. If you can't be bothered to go back and re-listen to them, why should we be bothered to do them again?

baiting hahahahahahahah ...couldn't care less ...
I know what sounds good and works for me day after day night after night...plenty of KB vs KB on You tube if your into that kind of comparisons..Although dated in todays tech world,I always liked playing the G70 but for my gigging needs it's a beast to lug, plain and simple

So why keep asking?

its only a reply to the word "BETTER"

A reply that ignores when it has already been provided... OK. Whatever.

Sound will always be subjective, and in most cases, highly personal.

I like my Tyros4 for it's overall sound quality and character, and that's why it sits here in my apartment...it only has to please me.

If it isn't what someone else chooses...that's not my problem.

If you love how your keyboard sounds, you will also tend to spend more time on it, and that has many benefits, not the least of which, is better playing skills.

I thought the G-70 sounded fine, and would still sound great today...but, then again, so would a Tyros or a Korg PA of the same vintage.

Going back and listening to the factory based demos of your present keyboard can be a sure cure for wanting something new.

Ian

Fantastic advice. Kudos.

Better yet...go back and listen to your own recordings...

I do THAT a lot. I have come to the conclusion that I sound best on Ketron, Roland, Korg, Yamaha, in that order. The difference between Ketron and Roland is not that much, nor is the difference between Roland and Korg.
Right now Korg seems to have the total package I like best, taking into consideration sound, weight, controls, ease of operation and vocal processing. There are trade-offs in every category between every brand.
Hammer is bringing his BK 9 for me to play with in the next few days. I expect to like it. I expect to not like it as well as PA3X. We'll see!

I sound absolutely fantastic on any brand. Mainly cause it's me they came to hear, not the keyboard. I must sound fantastic, otherwise I wouldn't be booked two years in advance.

And lets be realistic, the weight of the keyboard's shell has absolutely nothing to do with overall sound quality or build quality. A carbon fiber case could hold the same contents as a steel case, weigh half as much and sound identical. And, the carbon fiber case would be twice as strong - so weight is meaningless.

Corvettes are made of fiberglass, very lightweight, and very expensive. But a Shelby Cobra is made from aluminum, weighs far less, but the performance far exceeds the vet. Then there was the Griffith, which was also made of fiberglass and housed a big block V8 - I rode in one and it was like being strapped to a rocket sled. Unbelievable, but that lightweight car only stayed around for about a decade before it was taken off the market. It was one of the most incredible performance cars on the road and track. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TVR_Griffith

A lot of newer sailboats now have carbon fiber masts instead of aluminum or hardwood. They're far stronger, much, much lighter than either, and because of their incredible strength, no support cables are required to absorb the stress of the sails, thus clearly demonstrating weight has no bearing on quality or structural integrity here either.

Give it a break guys - everyone knows weight is meaningless when it comes to anything other than precious metals and gemstones.

Gary

Seen the price of carbon fiber stuff?!

Not all of us can afford that!

I know you play incredibly lightly, Gary (you've said as much in many posts about the S950's action), the problem with being TOO light is that the keyboard doesn't have enough mass to stay in place if you are playing hard on it at one end OR the other (both at the same time balances out!).

Unless you have a stand with legs at all four corners, at least for us stronger players, those 15lbs keyboards simply won't stop moving!

Gary, you are right, weight doesn't have anything to do with sound quality...but build quality..it has everything to do with.....

Weight has everything to do with playability..a responsive keyfeel...weighs more..and as Diki says...a keyboard can't keep moving around on you while playing..

Every keyboard I have owned that weighed under 25 pounds...just moves..either on an Apex or X stand..My V-stand holds the best..


The other side...my late MediaStation didn't move at all..followed by the G70..
I also noticed 76 key models seam more stable..and naturally a little heavier..Even the 27 pound E-60 stayed put..but the E-50 (20 pounds) did not..
10 pound controllers are almost a joke to keep still..as were the under 20 pound Juno stuff...also the 16 pound BK5 and Prelude..
With my experience..maybe that is why I want the heavier G70 on stage..

BTW: Gary, you are talking to a long time motor head..

You need to do more research..Corvette models like the ZR1, C06, and C7...get on youtube and see the match ups with the likes of ferrari, Porsche etc..
I have a long history of powerful muscle cars. incuding an older Shelby 427 mustang, 428 Cobrajet Mustanges, Boss 429 Mustangs, and many big block Chevys.....My best performer was a 1969 425 horse SS 396..that ran low elevens in a quarter mile...at near 130 MPH.
PS: I was a two time New Jersey State champion ..too..

Now I put around with my V-6 SUV..

Same with loudspeakers, the heavier the ... EXCEPT!!!: Bose Sounddock portable. (Sorry to bring that up again...)

Fran, what happened to the BK-9 you were considering?

If you returned it, what was the reason? Certainly not because it was too light?

Ian

Ian, I never return..only resell..
But...I did not buy a BK9...yet....Maybe I will call Bill Lewis and try his BK9..

I know I would like it for the most part..as I liked the BK5 for media playback, sounds, and styles..add the Chord seq and full 16 track sequencer..and audio keys...I could like it a lot..

The get around operation is another story....It just isn't up to my standards..

There is also a remaining problem the way it handles system exclusive, that I don't like...the G70 handles it well..Just dismissing by stating XG files don't work is boloney...The G70 does it fine...They made short cuts that don't fly with me..
Without that touch screen...I am not sure I want one...and an ipad is not the answer..

Thanks for your candid reply, Fran.

One thing about you, you know what YOU want.

A former client of mine tried a BK-9 in Toronto last week (we haven't seen any here yet) and he said it had nowhere near the quality feel of the G-70, and yes, he said, it is much cheaper, but for a G-70 player it feels like he'd be taking a step back rather than moving ahead, despite the extra new features and sounds.

He has a G-70, a G-1000, and a new Jupiter 80, so he's a 76 key man like yourself. He is not too keen on getting the BK-9. I tried to interest him in a Tyros5-76, but he's a Roland guy through and through (except for the Yamaha Stagepas 600i I sold him), so no luck there. That's why I was wondering why you passed on it (at least so far).

Ian

I guess I'm not a Jerry Lee type of player, guys - never found the necessity and never had any keyboard move on the stand - not one, regardless of weight.

Now, the cost of a new Carbon Fiber guitar, ranges from about $900 to $1,800 for a quality acoustic guitar. I got to play one in Florida, and a lot of sailboat cruisers had them because they never have to worry about moisture. They were extremely lightweight, and sounded fantastic, much better than many of the heavy wooden counterparts.

It really makes absolutely no difference in performance quality of an arranger keyboard, amp, etc... if the case that houses the electronics is made of cast iron, steel, high-impact plastic, or carbon fiber. Now, speakers are somewhat different, but that too seems to have been changed with improved acoustic technology. I can clearly remember when in order to obtain great sound you needed a speaker cabinet made of inch-thick fiberboard, and until recently, I believe Peavey still used that stuff. If it got damp, the glue failed and the speaker literally fell apart. They weighed a ton - I'm sure everyone remembers them. Now, nearly all speaker cabinets are made of high-impact plastic - gee I wonder why?

Fran, I was never a car guy - I only wanted my cars to last forever, and get me to and from the jobs. I do, however, remember my son building a 280Z and spending several months building the 550 HP engine he put it the thing. Thank God, he never raced it. The guy that purchased it from him blew it up at the York Dragaway and damned near got killed.

Cheers,

Gary

Too light? A couple Velcro strips holds anything in place. I have an Edirol controller that weighs about 9 pounds, and they keep it from moving.
Heavy feel is good feel for piano players. Many of us are not, and have never been, piano players. Light is better for some of us. It's what YOU need and want, not what someone else thinks is best.

Don't confuse heavy FEEL with heavy keyboard...

Basically, as far as comparisons go, most arrangers have almost the exact same feel, at least compared to the wide range of other keyboards, from stiff old piano actions, to toy keyboards with no weight whatsoever.

There's far less difference between my G70 and a T5 than there is between different pianos alone!

But the construction of the CASE? That's where most of the weight differences between arrangers is coming from. And, unless you only play at home, cover up your keyboard with plastic while not in use and baby the switches and knobs, that's where you are going to see why stronger, hence heavier construction comes into play.

Now, I know on this forum of rabid equipment changers, few of you ever keep a keyboard more than a few years. But keep it ten years or more, and you will quickly see why a little extra weight pays off in the long run.

TBH, I have doubts my BK-9 will hold up nearly as long as my G70 has. Sure, lugging 25 fewer lbs around is going to be nice. But ask me again in ten years!

I'll probably be dead in ten years! Longest I ever kept an arranger was no more than three years. PSR8000, PSR2000, and Roland E50 lasted the longest, although they became backups to newer ones along the line. The PA3X has been around more than two years now, as was the Audya.
Ten years? Nope, not unless they quit making new ones or I go too broke to get one.

Ten years for my G1000, nearly ten for the G70 (the BK-9 still hasn't supplanted it for live use).

I'm hoping that ten years for the BK-9 is doable. Hopefully, the budget construction will hold up. And me!

My 10-year-old PSR-3000, which is sitting right next to me, doesn't have a single scratch on it, every button and key works as good as the day it came out of the box. This keyboard has been on the road for all 10 years, used in more than 2,500 jobs and never failed mechanically or electronically. Anyone that ever owned a 3000 will tell you it's a workhorse and was well ahead of it's time. If for some, unforeseen reason my S950 were to crap out, I could put that 3000 on stage the same day and wouldn't skip a beat.

All of my guitars, 6 of them, were in pristine condition when sold - not a scratch on any of them. They were cleaned and polished after each use, the strings were changed regularly, and in each case was an Silicone impregnated, multi-fiber cloth that was used to wipe it down every day it was handled.

I still have a 50-year old M-Honer harmonica in my office that is in the original case, nice and shiny and plays like the day it arrived under the Christmas tree.

All of the amps I sold went out to the buyers in original boxes, and they looked and smelled the same as they did when they were brand new. Same was true with non-powered and powered speakers.

I'm just as meticulous about my boat and mini-van. I know guys on this forum that I would never purchase any piece of gear from because I know how they treat it. That list just got longer.

Maybe I just anal about the way I maintain my gear, but that's just the way it is with me. I work damned hard for my money, and none of this stuff is inexpensive. Therefore, to me, it really doesn't make any difference if the keyboard case is made of cast iron or high-impact plastic - it gets treated the same - with kid gloves!

Gary

G70 is Beautiful keyboard from inside to outside. I think I was one of the first G70 player in Seattle area because I had to wait 3 months after I paid for it (it was not in market then). It helps me for gigging to make money for my college life. I appreciate this beauty and beast. G70 gave me a great help in some years of my life.

As a tactile experience, I think the G70 was as good as it ever got, by any arranger manufacturer.

Firstly, the best semi-weighted action ever made… 76 keys with full length keys (especially the blacks) that felt normal for piano players, who spend a lifetime developing muscle memory for position and force for dynamics and speed and accuracy. But not tied to a full weighted keyboard. While piano and Rhodes certainly benefit from full weight keys, nearly everything else in the keyboard world uses lighter (sometimes MUCH lighter!) actions, and that lightness influences the typical music played on them.

In my personal opinion, the action used in the G70 (also the G1000 and A70 controller) was the perfect weight to provide acceptable resistance for piano parts but light enough for clavinet and synth stuff. Not even my Kurzweil K2500 came close (too heavy for clavinet). Add to that the rounded key ends, which made organ palm smears and glissandos comfortable (full weight and shape puano keys, with sharp badges and an overhang are deadly if you smear a lot!).

Maybe if there was one slight niggle with the keybed, it was that the aftertouch wasn’t very editable, mind you, that was more a software weakness than the actual mechanism.

Next was the touchscreen. While most other keyboards hadn’t even gone there yet, and those that had (Korg particularly) had a somewhat sluggish response, the G70’s high resolution (for its time) color display was snappy and well designed. Not too much eye candy (the SX900 wastes vast amounts of screen real estate on graphics and cramps vital information as a result).

Then the buttons and knobs and sliders were crisp, precise, mostly well placed.

I can honestly say that yes, the feature set and sounds in a BK9 are considerably improved over the G70, but the tactile experience took a big step backwards. I miss actually PLAYING on my G70. What I don’t miss is lugging it around in its 35lbs case! Close to 80lbs once cased up, it was a young man’s game (by young man, I mean up to your 50’s!). My BK9 in its SKB hard plastic case weighs less than the G70 did alone!

But, in certain ways, the G70 was the zenith of Roland arranger design. The most comfortable keyboard to actually play I ever had!

Enjoy it, enjoywater. I have a feeling it will never be surpassed… 🎹