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#381239 - 01/11/14 07:43 PM Re: I had my guitar theory lesson last night ... [Re: Uncle Dave]
Diki Online   content


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14269
Loc: NW Florida
Moving on, yes... but moving up or moving down? There is SO much as a musician that only comes from interplay, giving it up completely puts you in a static place, musically.

I feel there's room for BOTH, even if group play is an occasional thing. So many posts here expressed by solo players that go back and do the odd group gig or get-together saying how much they enjoyed it. That's got to count for SOMETHING, surely?

I can't think of the last thing my arranger taught me. But every time I play with good musicians, I learn something new.

For me, THAT'S what I call moving on..!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#381241 - 01/11/14 08:40 PM Re: I had my guitar theory lesson last night ... [Re: Diki]
Nigel Offline
Admin

Registered: 06/01/98
Posts: 6483
Loc: Ventura CA USA
Originally Posted By: Diki
I feel there's room for BOTH, even if group play is an occasional thing. So many posts here expressed by solo players that go back and do the odd group gig or get-together saying how much they enjoyed it. That's got to count for SOMETHING, surely?


Absolutely !!!! It is not a slam on using arrangers, but just a valid observation of the musical communication when playing with other musicians. Even the occasional performance with a guest musician playing with an arranger musician still amounts to the same thing.

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#381243 - 01/12/14 12:53 AM Re: I had my guitar theory lesson last night ... [Re: Diki]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Originally Posted By: Diki
So few here consider playing with others as an option!

Their loss, IMO.


Maybe because it is an arranger forum? I enjoy playing with others occasionally, but no way would I do it even periodically with a full band. I do enjoy using a second piece sometimes, usually a great guitarist, or multi-instrumentalist/vocalist.
And I always learn something, although sometimes it is just how fortunate I am to not NEED anyone else.
_________________________
DonM

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#381251 - 01/12/14 08:54 AM Re: I had my guitar theory lesson last night ... [Re: Uncle Dave]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15576
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
From what I know of the backgrounds of many forum members, most of those that currently perform as OMB entertainers were band members playing individual instruments prior to toe advent of arranger keyboards. For various reasons, including financial, the chose to go the OMB route. I played a 12-string guitar, Don Mason played trumpet, Fran and DNJ played an accordion, Eddie Shoemaker played drums, those were fun times. We didn't make any money, at least not enough to live on, but we always had a lot of fun, and that why the vast majority of us still play. I would get together with my old band, but with the exception of the lead guitar player, the other three guys now reside in cemeteries. When they were alive, we got together once a year, had lots of fun, ate fattening food and drank booze.

When I went back to being a solo player, which was about 25 years ago, I was still playing a guitar and singing. Then, some very creative genius invented an arranger keyboard - WOW! What an amazing device. Back then they didn't have many features, only a handful of styles and voices, but that didn't stop me, or others from purchasing one.

Back then, which was about 20 years ago, what most of us knew about arranger keyboards could be written on the head of a match and left lots of room to write an encyclopedia. Fortunately, forums such as this one came along, thus providing us the ability to not only exchange information, but additionally to form friendships and bond with others with like interests. We exchanged ideas and learned from each other on a daily basis, despite not being in the same room with those individuals who so unselfishly shared their expertise.

This is not a band forum, or a musicians forum, music writer forum - it's an arranger keyboard forum, and that's why the vast majority of us came here. We came to learn how to get more out of our individual arranger keyboards. So, just like when I played with a band, when I'm here I learn from those around me. I learn from people throughout the world who have incredible differences in background and experience. What more could anyone in this field of endeavor ask for? smile

Cheers,

Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#381252 - 01/12/14 09:23 AM Re: I had my guitar theory lesson last night ... [Re: travlin'easy]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Good post Gary and very true..personally I play around 8 instruments thru the years...but KB is my main AX & Vocals....
Playing with a band is fine although times have changed drastically....doing it as a PRO and making a decent living is daunting but can be done or just getting together to jam with friends is fun also......BUT, being a successful OMB Arranger KB FULL TIME Pro Player & Entertainer today is another ball game. Don't how many here achieve this day after day supporting their lifestyle and families, but I would say many here have no clue what is is to be in the trenches doing it. For me, Music is the most rewarding job & thurout my life so far couldn't think of doing anything else that gives me more happiness day after day, night after night in so many different venues. I am truly blessed!
All I know is that Every time I go to work I'm going to a Party!!! party oh yeah did I mention you get payed too? wink


Edited by Dnj (01/12/14 09:24 AM)

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#381254 - 01/12/14 10:40 AM Re: I had my guitar theory lesson last night ... [Re: Uncle Dave]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Having the arranger keyboard not only lets me play as a solo act, but, if you want to jam with friends, or play on stage, and, depending on how many want to join in, auto-accompaniment can sub for whoever is missing.

I take my Tyros4 to all the jams we have and it sits on top of the B-3....sometimes I play it as just a source of great sounds, other times I use it in style mode, adding/removing parts as needed.

For me, the arranger is the Swiss Army Knife of keyboards, and today's arrangers sound so good and offer so many great (and realistic) styles and sounds, that it is a real pleasure to play one.

Like Gary and Donny, my first arranger had all of 32 styles, and roughly 64 sounds, with no fingering options other that single and fingered chords and sounds that were barely approximations of the instruments they were named after. Nowadays we have incredible styles and sounds.

Some pros scoffed at our instrument choice (some still do) and laughed at our early efforts, but, we laughed too...all the way to the bank.

I am grateful we have such a versatile tool in our kits.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#381255 - 01/12/14 10:55 AM Re: I had my guitar theory lesson last night ... [Re: Uncle Dave]
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
Get a cup of tea before you start reading .... it's Looooong ......


I have loved every phase of my ever expanding musical career ... including this latest chapter - teaching. As I look back on the bands, large and small - they all had their ups and downs, but the common denominator has always been the music, and the audience. I've never been as happy as when I'm on stage. The studio is cool, but I need the reaction from the people to fully appreciate the process.

Here's a brief timeline of how the music shaped my life, fed my family, and kept my accountant busy:
1955: born ... screaming at 2am. A night owl from the start
1959: singing my baby sister to sleep with a rousing rendition of "over the seas, let's go men" ... woke her up more than soothed her to sleep
1961: got a guitar for Christmas. A cheap, plastic Sears toy that I sat on and busted that same day. My hero (Dad) took it back to Sears and got it replaced. He failed to mention how his little fata$$ son was at fault, and not the manufacturer.
1964: February 9th, Sunday night with a million others in the USA watching Ed Sullivan .... saw the Beatles. Thought to myself .... "I could DO that!"
1965-69: formed small garage bands with schoolmates. I played 12 string acoustic, Mike Revak played lead guitar, George Shay on Bass and Mike Harkins on drums. We played our first paid gig as eighth graders at a college graduation party. We knew 7 songs, so we repeated them 2 or 3 times. $5 each, all we could eat and got to look (oogle) at the college girls. Life was good, and I was a professional, paid musician.

1969: Started High School: played Freshman football with buddies ... didn't realize the band was cooler than the jocks just yet. After weeks and weeks of hearing "Boyd - give me 20!" "Boyd, hit the dirt!" "Boyd, start runnin’!" ... I finally figured out that sports was not my love ... especially since on the other practice field, the marching band would practice and there were about a hundred girls in the band-front with batons and rifles .... oh, baby. I went to join the band - the director asked what do I play. I responded "Guitar" ... he said "We don't have a cord long enough to reach the football field .. play drums"... so I did. Well, the drummers were just a tad "too cool" for school ... smoking, drinking, didn't have to pick up their feet as high as the other players .... just a separate society within the band. So, I go back to Mr C, the director, and asked for something else. He handed me a small briefcase ... a clarinet. I took one look at it and said "This is a sissy instrument!" ... he looked back at me, and with ZERO emotion in his voice told me "This is MY instrument, son". (removed foot from mouth) I took it home and showed my Dad. He took out a few Pete Fountain records (remember RECORDS?) and said "listen to these" … I did, and fell in love with the sound. I began my quest to be the best clarinetist I could be. Over the next 3 years at HS, I reached 1st chair clarinet, played the solo from "Rhapsody in Blue" at Graduation, earned a scholarship to Temple as a music major, and still found time to act in plays, gig on the weekends (piano, bass, guitar and drums), and fall in love with my high school sweetheart (not a redhead) Marie, who is the mother of my son, Christopher, and someone I deeply admire and respect to this day. Our kids are friends, our lives still connect at family functions and I consider Mark (my husband-in-law) to be a Godsend to our family.

So .... here I am entering Temple U as a clarinetist during the Disco years. Hmmmm ... what to DO with this instrument? If I am so bold to believe that I'm good enough, my options are:
1)local Philly/NY theater: ... naw - I could never play the SAME THING day after day for years on end. I'd go nuts.
2)Philadelphia Orchestra ... those guys pretty much have a job till they die ... tough breaking into THAT club.
3)teaching school ... NO WAY - all day long with a bunch of high school kids? I just LEFT that world. (sign of things to come, perhaps?)
4)form a top 40 band and play the circuit locally, marry Marie, make babies and music.

1975: I chose #4. After 2 years of college - I decided that full time music was more in the cards, so I left school, got married and kicked my career into high gear.
Bass players who sang were not as common in our area, so I never had a problem finding a working band. We played the hits, stayed local and went home to our families every night. It was a living, and it provided 6-7 night of work each week for almost a decade. By 1978, the night shift, and the youth factor hit Marie and I pretty hard, and she was tired of going to sleep alone every night, and that led to our decision to separate. She went home to Mom, and I stayed in the house. Dad had lent us the money for the down payment, so it seemed fair.
From 1975 till 1985, there were duos, trios, 14 pc swing bands, 10 pc funk/dance bands, and the occasional solo piano bar thing. Work was plentiful, I was single and the business was good to me. (at least, I thought it was)
Mid 80s: DJs and drunk driving laws put a dent in the live scene, so the bands kept shrinking .... I figured, the last guy standing will be the keyboardist, so I concentrated on that for a while. Karaoke put the final nail in the coffin of many bands in the area, but the solo (power single, we were called) had no problem working the same rooms. I played rooms that 5 pc bands used to play, and got almost the same money. In some cases ... even more, because I had a great local following.
Late 80s: Still hanging on to a few band scenarios, mostly me and a guitarist, or a sax ... drums were all electronic now. My go to rig was a Rhodes, a Moog bass, Clavinet, String machine and whatever "synth du jour" was making the scene. Big, bulky setups, with long setup times, and took loads of stage real-estate. Still, the work was there, and money kept coming.
1989: Full time soloist now ... the Rhodes and Clav are retired to home studio, and I'm using all arrangers now ... singing through the built in speakers in most. I had one of the earliest harmonizers, and became known for the vocal sound that I put out. I also started doing little dinner theater" shows ... Phantom of the Opera, Lez Miz, Oklahoma, South Pacific ... just 7-8 minute medleys (in costume) at a featured time each night. This became another "calling card" for me. It was something no one in the area was doing, so the crowds continued to come out.
The 80s saw a second marriage (1984-2002), three daughters, loads of gear, but somehow ... I managed to find 4-5 nights each week to play and sing for my supper. There was also the advent of the Nursing Home jobs ... these were brand new back then, and a great source of income for the full timer who was off during the day. 1 hour job - 4 hour pay. Sweet. Add to that about 15-25 weddings, parties and corporate affairs each year, various studio sessions (making demos for friends) and you have a career.
2005: I turned 50 (gulp) ... I'm single (again), work is plentiful, but getting stale ... harder to find more than one night in a row in the clubs, and the every night setup/teardown is gettin’ old. One winter day, I get a random phone call from a singer I worked with in the 80s ... she says "come down to Florida for a few days and we can catch up" .... (big mistake)
3 days in the sun, too many gallons of wine to count, 2 nights in the hot tub and I was brainwashed into thinking I actually KNEW this woman, and wanted to be with her. (I shoulda bought a SPORTS CAR!) The attention was too much for this tired, chubby, lonely old man to handle, and since I still had young(ish) kids ... I didn't want them to see Daddy shacking up with the woman, now known as "The Miami hurricane" ... so (another gulp) I married her. (I know, I know ... shush)
From that first phone call till the day I came home to an empty house after work one night was SEVEN MONTHS. What a whirlwind lesson in stupidity. There may even be a mark still on my forehead, where the "stupid stick" hit me. My fault for not finding a redhead, I guess. There was ONE redhead in this story, but that's a whole different book for another time.

2005 was like a Lifetime Movie - horrible marriage to the Wicked Witch of the South, I was carjacked, shot at, and almost broke from the left over bills from the "Miami hurricane" ... she left quite an impact on my wallet, but thankfully, my heart is unscathed. Just that silly "S" on my forehead is all that's left. I hope my furniture is happy in Miami, cuz I'll never go down there again! (shiver!)
But, I digress ... the best part is about to happen! I read an ad in a music newsletter for a teacher in my area. "Non traditional school seeks full time, well rounded music teacher for multi-instrumental and vocal classes. DEGREE NOT REQUIRED. WOAH ..... did that have MY NAME on it? Am I ready to finally, set up house in one building and share the many years and stories of the biz with young musicians? I took the plunge and that's where I am today. It's my 8th year as a teacher, and I still find time to play all summer at my favorite places, I have a few monthly jobs during the school year in local eateries, and the band work, private parties and dances come in with surprising regularity. Don’t forget that we produce 2 plays and 3 concerts with school each year too – GREAT FUN!

So, it's 44 years since that $5 graduation party I played on guitar, and after Friday night's job with the Topics ... I feel like I'm just learning the darn instrument! Sigh ... we're never too old to learn, and the thrill of the achievement is SO worth the effort. Sorry I rambled on so long, but I'm avoiding taking the Christmas tree down ... so may snowmen … so little time …
Oh, GOODY! It's lunchtime ... it can wait another 30 minutes or so.
Thanx for listening!
smile
_________________________
No longer monitoring this forum. Please visit www.daveboydmusic.com for contact info

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#381274 - 01/12/14 03:08 PM Re: I had my guitar theory lesson last night ... [Re: Uncle Dave]
jamman Offline
Member

Registered: 08/24/04
Posts: 666
Loc: City of Angels in the golden s...
Originally Posted By: Uncle Dave
Get a cup of tea before you start reading .... it's Looooong ......


I have loved every phase of my ever expanding musical career ... including this latest chapter - teaching. As I look back on the bands, large and small - they all had their ups and downs, but the common denominator has always been the music, and the audience. I've never been as happy as when I'm on stage. The studio is cool, but I need the reaction from the people to fully appreciate the process.

Here's a brief timeline of how the music shaped my life, fed my family, and kept my accountant busy:
1955: born ... screaming at 2am. A night owl from the start
1959: singing my baby sister to sleep with a rousing rendition of "over the seas, let's go men" ... woke her up more than soothed her to sleep
1961: got a guitar for Christmas. A cheap, plastic Sears toy that I sat on and busted that same day. My hero (Dad) took it back to Sears and got it replaced. He failed to mention how his little fata$$ son was at fault, and not the manufacturer.
1964: February 9th, Sunday night with a million others in the USA watching Ed Sullivan .... saw the Beatles. Thought to myself .... "I could DO that!"
1965-69: formed small garage bands with schoolmates. I played 12 string acoustic, Mike Revak played lead guitar, George Shay on Bass and Mike Harkins on drums. We played our first paid gig as eighth graders at a college graduation party. We knew 7 songs, so we repeated them 2 or 3 times. $5 each, all we could eat and got to look (oogle) at the college girls. Life was good, and I was a professional, paid musician.

1969: Started High School: played Freshman football with buddies ... didn't realize the band was cooler than the jocks just yet. After weeks and weeks of hearing "Boyd - give me 20!" "Boyd, hit the dirt!" "Boyd, start runnin’!" ... I finally figured out that sports was not my love ... especially since on the other practice field, the marching band would practice and there were about a hundred girls in the band-front with batons and rifles .... oh, baby. I went to join the band - the director asked what do I play. I responded "Guitar" ... he said "We don't have a cord long enough to reach the football field .. play drums"... so I did. Well, the drummers were just a tad "too cool" for school ... smoking, drinking, didn't have to pick up their feet as high as the other players .... just a separate society within the band. So, I go back to Mr C, the director, and asked for something else. He handed me a small briefcase ... a clarinet. I took one look at it and said "This is a sissy instrument!" ... he looked back at me, and with ZERO emotion in his voice told me "This is MY instrument, son". (removed foot from mouth) I took it home and showed my Dad. He took out a few Pete Fountain records (remember RECORDS?) and said "listen to these" … I did, and fell in love with the sound. I began my quest to be the best clarinetist I could be. Over the next 3 years at HS, I reached 1st chair clarinet, played the solo from "Rhapsody in Blue" at Graduation, earned a scholarship to Temple as a music major, and still found time to act in plays, gig on the weekends (piano, bass, guitar and drums), and fall in love with my high school sweetheart (not a redhead) Marie, who is the mother of my son, Christopher, and someone I deeply admire and respect to this day. Our kids are friends, our lives still connect at family functions and I consider Mark (my husband-in-law) to be a Godsend to our family.

So .... here I am entering Temple U as a clarinetist during the Disco years. Hmmmm ... what to DO with this instrument? If I am so bold to believe that I'm good enough, my options are:
1)local Philly/NY theater: ... naw - I could never play the SAME THING day after day for years on end. I'd go nuts.
2)Philadelphia Orchestra ... those guys pretty much have a job till they die ... tough breaking into THAT club.
3)teaching school ... NO WAY - all day long with a bunch of high school kids? I just LEFT that world. (sign of things to come, perhaps?)
4)form a top 40 band and play the circuit locally, marry Marie, make babies and music.

1975: I chose #4. After 2 years of college - I decided that full time music was more in the cards, so I left school, got married and kicked my career into high gear.
Bass players who sang were not as common in our area, so I never had a problem finding a working band. We played the hits, stayed local and went home to our families every night. It was a living, and it provided 6-7 night of work each week for almost a decade. By 1978, the night shift, and the youth factor hit Marie and I pretty hard, and she was tired of going to sleep alone every night, and that led to our decision to separate. She went home to Mom, and I stayed in the house. Dad had lent us the money for the down payment, so it seemed fair.
From 1975 till 1985, there were duos, trios, 14 pc swing bands, 10 pc funk/dance bands, and the occasional solo piano bar thing. Work was plentiful, I was single and the business was good to me. (at least, I thought it was)
Mid 80s: DJs and drunk driving laws put a dent in the live scene, so the bands kept shrinking .... I figured, the last guy standing will be the keyboardist, so I concentrated on that for a while. Karaoke put the final nail in the coffin of many bands in the area, but the solo (power single, we were called) had no problem working the same rooms. I played rooms that 5 pc bands used to play, and got almost the same money. In some cases ... even more, because I had a great local following.
Late 80s: Still hanging on to a few band scenarios, mostly me and a guitarist, or a sax ... drums were all electronic now. My go to rig was a Rhodes, a Moog bass, Clavinet, String machine and whatever "synth du jour" was making the scene. Big, bulky setups, with long setup times, and took loads of stage real-estate. Still, the work was there, and money kept coming.
1989: Full time soloist now ... the Rhodes and Clav are retired to home studio, and I'm using all arrangers now ... singing through the built in speakers in most. I had one of the earliest harmonizers, and became known for the vocal sound that I put out. I also started doing little dinner theater" shows ... Phantom of the Opera, Lez Miz, Oklahoma, South Pacific ... just 7-8 minute medleys (in costume) at a featured time each night. This became another "calling card" for me. It was something no one in the area was doing, so the crowds continued to come out.
The 80s saw a second marriage (1984-2002), three daughters, loads of gear, but somehow ... I managed to find 4-5 nights each week to play and sing for my supper. There was also the advent of the Nursing Home jobs ... these were brand new back then, and a great source of income for the full timer who was off during the day. 1 hour job - 4 hour pay. Sweet. Add to that about 15-25 weddings, parties and corporate affairs each year, various studio sessions (making demos for friends) and you have a career.
2005: I turned 50 (gulp) ... I'm single (again), work is plentiful, but getting stale ... harder to find more than one night in a row in the clubs, and the every night setup/teardown is gettin’ old. One winter day, I get a random phone call from a singer I worked with in the 80s ... she says "come down to Florida for a few days and we can catch up" .... (big mistake)
3 days in the sun, too many gallons of wine to count, 2 nights in the hot tub and I was brainwashed into thinking I actually KNEW this woman, and wanted to be with her. (I shoulda bought a SPORTS CAR!) The attention was too much for this tired, chubby, lonely old man to handle, and since I still had young(ish) kids ... I didn't want them to see Daddy shacking up with the woman, now known as "The Miami hurricane" ... so (another gulp) I married her. (I know, I know ... shush)
From that first phone call till the day I came home to an empty house after work one night was SEVEN MONTHS. What a whirlwind lesson in stupidity. There may even be a mark still on my forehead, where the "stupid stick" hit me. My fault for not finding a redhead, I guess. There was ONE redhead in this story, but that's a whole different book for another time.

2005 was like a Lifetime Movie - horrible marriage to the Wicked Witch of the South, I was carjacked, shot at, and almost broke from the left over bills from the "Miami hurricane" ... she left quite an impact on my wallet, but thankfully, my heart is unscathed. Just that silly "S" on my forehead is all that's left. I hope my furniture is happy in Miami, cuz I'll never go down there again! (shiver!)
But, I digress ... the best part is about to happen! I read an ad in a music newsletter for a teacher in my area. "Non traditional school seeks full time, well rounded music teacher for multi-instrumental and vocal classes. DEGREE NOT REQUIRED. WOAH ..... did that have MY NAME on it? Am I ready to finally, set up house in one building and share the many years and stories of the biz with young musicians? I took the plunge and that's where I am today. It's my 8th year as a teacher, and I still find time to play all summer at my favorite places, I have a few monthly jobs during the school year in local eateries, and the band work, private parties and dances come in with surprising regularity. Don’t forget that we produce 2 plays and 3 concerts with school each year too – GREAT FUN!

So, it's 44 years since that $5 graduation party I played on guitar, and after Friday night's job with the Topics ... I feel like I'm just learning the darn instrument! Sigh ... we're never too old to learn, and the thrill of the achievement is SO worth the effort. Sorry I rambled on so long, but I'm avoiding taking the Christmas tree down ... so may snowmen … so little time …
Oh, GOODY! It's lunchtime ... it can wait another 30 minutes or so.
Thanx for listening!
smile



Great post UD.One of the great reasons to visit this forum is reading such honest and informative posts.thanks for sharing.

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#381279 - 01/12/14 05:21 PM Re: I had my guitar theory lesson last night ... [Re: Uncle Dave]
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
Well, you guys are like family ... might as well share the good AND the bad stories, right?
_________________________
No longer monitoring this forum. Please visit www.daveboydmusic.com for contact info

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#381286 - 01/12/14 07:28 PM Re: I had my guitar theory lesson last night ... [Re: Uncle Dave]
Diki Online   content


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14269
Loc: NW Florida
Thing is, arranger is simply a TYPE of keyboard. You can do solo gigs on a piano. You can do solo gigs on a WS. You can play with others on those, too.

Same with the arranger. It is merely one of many TYPES of keyboard. The decision to ONLY play solo for the rest of your lives has NOTHING to do with what you play. TBH, it isn't even a financial decision. Few of us are so busy we couldn't do the odd band gig to recharge our creative and musical juices. In fact, the busiest of us could more afford it than some others!

Everybody's experience of their band playing days vary, obviously, but all I can say is, if an arranger makes you as happy on stage as you were with a band, you have my sympathies.
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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