Hey Fran bet you won't forget Dom in a hurry, at least he didn't get this silly old gits money, that's how senile I am, anyway Fran got a bit of respect for you now you are at least using my name at last, anyway Dom or Don everyone on SZ knows exactly what I mean, they don't need you to correct me.

Nope i won't forget Dom...he never refused to help me...he gave me the original MS X-76..I only paid shipping from Lee...He sold me updates at cost or a small mark up....Nope I won't forget Dom....Now everyone on SZ knows what I'm talking about....

Gary,

I'm sure you get Diki's point about how a lot of bends seem to occur at chord changes. It's not that big a deal, as evidenced by DonM's guitar emulations, but it's an issue for some.

With me, I've been dealing with that for years, and it's never a bother. I just do the best I can with the hand I've been dealt. The Tyros4 doesn't have a chord sequencer, which would make it easier, but I wouldn't buy another brand just for that feature, and give up the sounds I love on my Yamaha.

I'm not that much of a perfectionist...I just want the listener to be at least able to identify the instrument I'm emulating at the time. That's good enough for me.

Ian

I was kind of rootin' for Dom, as he had the testicular fortitude to attempt something new, and, he even tried to include us arranger players, the finicky lot that we are.

He certainly seemed very passionate about what he was doing, and I admire that in a person.

He also seemed like a nice guy.

Ian

I'm a horn player. T'bone was my college major.

My problem in arranger mode is, I KNOW what I want to play (and can generally play it!), the trouble is, chording gets in the way.

The big difference is generally, keyboard players are content to have the machine put the 'tricks' in for them, and are just happy that they occur at all! But horn players know WHEN they want the tricks, and it often coincides with chord boundaries.

This is very easy to test for yourself. Make an arranger backing sequence or SMF (or use your CS!). Now play a sax solo over the top with BOTH hands. Now go back and listen to how often you bent at the same time the chords were changing.

If you are getting the sax part realistic, it will be almost every time you change chords!

I think guitar is easier to emulate than sax, but either is far easier if you don't have to change chords and have left hand free for the bends, mods, strips, beams, etc.
I don't particularly like the SA stuff, preferring to do more myself, but that's probably because I haven't taken the time to learn to play them properly--old dog, new trick syndrome.
Toughest to do while playing chords is pedal steel. Everything seems to occur as the chord changes.
Being a trumpet player originally, I know what it's supposed to sound like, and what it can do, including range and limits.

I use the SA Buttons on the wind instruments about 1/3 of the time...the wheels are just that much easier to use to add very subtle pitch offsets. The beauty of the buttons is that you can usually preset a bend or trill by pressing the button a tad before you hit the note, so it does help a bit when a chord change would otherwise make it difficult to use the wheel.

The pedal steel on the Tyros4 is pretty realistic, but the bends do seem to want to be activated at chord changes. I also like to layer two guitar patches, with only one responding to the pitchbend wheel...that way I can bend one note up to be in unison with the other.

The SA/SA2 sounds themselves (winds, strings guitars etc.) are excellent nonetheless, so I don't mind the trade-off.

I went to quite a few seminars at Yamaha Head Office in Scarborough Ontario after I completed the Electone course, where we were instructed in the ranges of the orchestral instruments, and that has proved valuable for using the arranger.

Ian

Of course, you are aware that you can use a standard foot pedal and do the bends as well, thus allowing you to work on those left hand chord changes at the same time. Whoops, I forgot - Donny don't need no stinkin pedals!

Gary

I have used the pedal for bending, Gary, and it does a pretty good job, but now I'm using it as a volume pedal 100% of the time.

I find it far more useful in that mode.

When I comped behind a vocalist or soloist I used to have one registration button for the comp sound volume, and another louder one for my leads. I now have the volume pedal set to control only the Right Hand sounds, and it works much better than the former method.

Ian

The problem with bending using the expression pedal is, a sax can bend BOTH ways. And you want the expression pedal to make phrases tail away, or swell...

There simply is no easy way round the problem unless you are content to let the machine decide for you where and when the 'tricks' are going to happen.

I am pretty confident I have never heard a convincing SA sax part that wasn't done after the backing was laid down, and probably edited in a sequencer, as well. If you listen to the factory demos, it is MORE than obvious...