The Casio PX-5S (256 note polyphony) has been awarded The Music & Sound Retailer's Best Keyboard/Sound Module of 2014. Not bad for a $1,000 great sounding live performance stage piano huh! I can't wait for Casio's new line of arranger keyboards. We'll have to see what Casio has in store at Musikmesse. I don't really expect them to give their new arranger 256 note polyphony although I do expect them to increase the polyphony to 128. Time will tell. I'm sure it will have even better sounds and more features plus 76 keys and a price that likely can't be beat. Casio is breaking new ground and I say good for them.

By the way, my critique of the Yamaha Tyros 5 I posted recently is something I do to any keyboard I feel misses the mark in some significant way. The Tyros 5 sounds great of course (except the B3 organs and maybe a few others) but there is always room for improvement and the Yammie is no exception in my opinion.

If I may. Please bear with me. The one area I feel Yamaha ripped off consumers is obviously the astronomical price tag(s) for the Tyros 4/5. Yammie feels they can charge an arm and a leg because it is obvious to them there are scads of people who don't mind forking over $6,000 for what is at best a $3,000 arranger keyboard in my opinion. Call it a cult following or whatever you like. If people keep paying through the nose Yammie will keep charging an arm and a leg and they laugh all the way to the bank. I know they don't like hearing that kind of thing but it's true and I'm just pointing it out. But I think the only thing that will likely change Yammie's pricing strategy is if enough people revolt and don't buy it and then Yammie will be forced to either reduce their prices or risk economic fallout. They're hoping people don't 'wise up' since it adds significantly to Yammie's own bottom line. Profit above people, unfortunately, and it's kind of sad when you think about it. These are my opinions of course.

Hey, I don't mind if Yamaha makes a decent profit. A company is in business to make a profit and I fully understand that. What I take issue with is Yamaha's greediness concerning the Tyros 4/5 and as a consumer advocate I feel I have an obligation to speak out for consumers which will hopefully effect change at Yamaha central. I realize that's a tall order but stranger things have happened and we can certainly hope for the best right?

There are Yammie employees who peruse this forum and I'm sure they probably hate my guts for calling their beloved company to the carpet. Which doesn't faze me in the least because I believe consumers should be a company's number one priority and Yammie should instead thank me for shining a light in a dark area. In order to effect real change there sometime needs to be drastic measures taken because the lure of money can be so strong that business ethics can sometimes 'fly out the window' which is truly regrettable.

Okay I'll stop. Take a deep breath (not me, ya'll) and let all the anger roll off your back like water off a duck. I'm just the messenger but there are Yamaha loyalists that probably want to shoot me in the back. I guess it goes with the territory.

When you stand up for the consumer there will always be those who would rather defend a company for whatever reason. Perhaps because those very same people are making money from the company and therefore there is a conflict of interest, which is understandable, because people need to make a living and unfortunately the consumer ends up playing second fiddle in the scheme of things. Such is life in the world of business I reckon.

All the best, Mike

PS: I've been rather busy lately and so please excuse me for my sometimes extended absence from this forum. I still want a good arranger in hopefully the near future. I really miss playing an arranger. I would have kept the PSR-s950 if not for the low-light issue that made it almost impossible to navigate in dim lit situations. The search continues.

You are correct, Mike, I also think the Casio PX-5S is an absolute killer of a synthesizer keyboard. And, I've just learned that a old friend of mine nearby is re-opening a small Casio dealership. (I bought my old CZ-1 from him).

And (are you ready?)I'm getting one to try out for a few weeks...I believe it will make a great companion to my incredibly awesome Yamaha Tyros4. According to Dreamer and a few other SZ'ers, the PX-5S has an extremely satisfying weighted action and makes a great controller too....wicked!!!

And, before I forget, Mike...what happened? No Roland BK-9 for you? I realize, from your previous posts, that a 76-note Yamaha (and to a lesser extent, Korg) has been, and will likely always be, out of your price range, but the BK-9 is as cheap as chips, and is a superb lightweight 76-note arranger. Not long ago you were rootin' for Roland to make such a keyboard.

Oh well, perhaps the search still continues...or maybe, the search was always the goal.

Ian

I am not really an arranger player despite running a forum for arrangers lol. But I never write off Casio as a contender for providing value added keyboards. They always have a surprise up their sleeve. And for just over $2000 I can buy a Korg Kronos X61 which is an awesome keyboard for live band use with 9 separate synth engines.

Dreamer was very pleased with his PX-5S, and Casio have made some awesome pro quality synths in their past with the CZ series.

If they put as much effort into an arranger keyboard as they have done recently with synths and digital pianos, they'd quite likely come up with a real game-changer and have Roland, Korg and Yamaha scrambling to keep up.

So far, in my opinion, Casio's arrangers are still a bit short of the mark, but who knows what the future will bring?

Ian

Its light with great action and a very immersive sound


If you want 88 key action and an awesome piano sound to acompany your arranger, it can bet set up needly withe the 88 keys just under the arranger keys...

Pianoman chuck loves his casio ..

And a friend of mine uses one in his studio..




You cant get much better for that money..

I'm curious about your statement that the Tyros 5 is:
"at best a $3,000 arranger keyboard"

I presume you are referring to a 61 key model? My Tyros 5/76 cost me (pound/$) $5500.

Around 1994 I paid $2675 for my Kurzweil K1200 Pro/76. My 2013 cost of $5500 seems good value when compared to 1994.

YMMV

Ian

Unless things have changed I won't buy a Casio arranger until they offer 4 style variations. The latest one I played was a few years ago and only had 2 variations. It sounded great, especially for its low cost. -charley

I have a Casio PX-350. Compared to the Casio PX-5S it has the same keybed + stock voices. Unlike the PX-5S, the PX-350 comes with onboard speakers + it has some styles to fiddle around with. However, the PX-350 doesn't have the editing capability of the PX-5S, and it just doesn't have the lighting and button layout to make it suitable for serious stage work (unless you're just playing piano).

I have my PX-350 hooked up to my computer where I'm running Ivory II American Steinway D + Italian Grand. I got the most expensive Sound Blaster sound card on my desktop, and I bought Sennheiser HD-650 headphones to get the closest possible to the full grand piano experience. It sounds incredible, and the PX-350 does a really good job, but not perfect, of producing a piano feel. I heard that the Kawai VPC1 is the closest you can get to a real piano feel, but it costs $1850 and it weighs 65lbs.

Casio has done an amazing job of creating a triple sensor, weighted key keyboard that you can carry under your arm and won't cost an arm and a leg.

I haven't been posting on synthzone much lately, because outside of the gigging I do on my Yamaha PSR-S950, I am having more fun at home playing the Casio with the Ivory II software.

I think Mike is being a little hard on Yamaha for its pricing. I think that Casio usually creates the best keyboard for their price point.

The R&D that goes into a T5 as far as musicians for the styles and engineers for their voices is really mind boggling. Maybe I'm naive, but I think that it must cost a lot of money to produce all those styles and authentic voices + all the other stuff. I simply cannot afford a T5. I own two PX-950's, and I can't afford two T5's.

Maybe the price is a little stiff, maybe not. I don't know how much it costs them. But the price isn't way out of line. It's a professional top of the line instrument. It's for the accomplished pros and wealthy hobbyists.

Ian, the BK-9 is priced competitively although the two small monochrome LCD screens are a deal breaker for me. You can only view one screen at a time and since I'm not a chameleon (able to view both screens at once) it's probably difficult to navigate the menus and kind of like playing game of ping pong only with your eyeballs. Back and forth, back and forth, back and forth and I can imagine playing the BK-9 live would be a chore because your attention is divided. Plus I don't like the fact you need an iPad to view things in color. Other than that it seems to be a decent arranger although I've read some user reviews that say a lot of the sounds are rather mediocre. But at least Roland is back in the game and for that I give them credit.

Casio has done some amazing things recently and they're still able to keep prices relatively low compared to the competition. Remember the MZ-2000? It was a good effort by Casio and it was also considered a higher-end arranger at the time. But it only had 64 note polyphony and that is still true today with the WK-7600. If Casio doubles the polyphony on its new arranger(s) more people would be persuaded to check out Casio in my opinion. They are losing the "toy" image and it won't be long before they give Yammie, Roland and Korg a real run for their money if you ask me. Yamaha may dismiss Casio but they do so at their own peril in my opinion.

Nigel is right on. Casio is becoming more cutting edge and it seems with each new release they're giving more features and even better sounds. What's not to like?

Beemer, Yamaha is charging $5,499 for the 76 key Tyros 5 and with tax (8% - in California) it ends up being $5,938. But in my opinion the Tyros 5 is only worth about $3,000 when you get right down to it. The Tyros 5 doesn't have a sampler and they only gave it 128 note polyphony (Tyros 4 users complained of note cut off by the way) and there is also no micro-editing and the B3 organs are kind of cheesy and Yamaha charges you extra for additional storage. I'm sure there are other shortcomings but overall it's a great sounding arranger for the most part but it obviously costs and arm and a leg. If people keep shelling out then Yammie will no doubt keep charging an arm and a leg until people wise up.

I like a lot of the products from Yamaha as I've stated previously but greed has gotten the best of Yammie when it comes to the Tyros line in my opinion. I say that with a sad heart because overall I think Yamaha is a great company for the most part. Although the executives at Yamaha Japan possibly consider me 'public enemy number one' because I'm not afraid to speak my mind about things I consider shortcomings or just plain wrong. But I also do that with Korg, Roland, Ketron and even Casio if I feel they deserve it. In other words, I don't discriminate or place one above the other like some fan-boys have a tendency to do. I won't name names obviously.

If people like a certain product then more power to them. But I've learned if you become too attached to a particular company you're usually in for a rude awakening at some point because a company's number one priority is mainly their own bottom line and the customer in many cases is way down on the totem pole in the scheme of things unfortunately. It's better to take an objective stance and in so doing end up with the best product for your own needs.

All the best, Mike

I think it is wise you haven't become attached to one company, Mike.

As I said in my post above..."If they (Casio) put as much effort into an arranger keyboard as they have done recently with synths and digital pianos, they'd quite likely come up with a real game-changer and have Roland, Korg and Yamaha scrambling to keep up. So far, in my opinion, Casio's arrangers are still a bit short of the mark, but who knows what the future will bring?"

Greed is a horrible thing, practiced not by a company, but by individuals within that company...companies themselves are incapable of human feelings.

I hope that some company finally makes something within, both your needs, and, your budget, and you are able to get back to using an arranger, and enjoying music like the rest of us who have decided to invest in one.

I know, for me (and I don't think I'm alone), buying an arranger (in my case,a Yamaha Tyros4) was one of the most rewarding investments I have made.

Ian