Guys,

The new Compacts arrived this afternoon. I hope to work with a bit tomorrow. I have a question about cables...

I will be using a 12 channel Yamaha EMX 212s powered mixer.

I will run a 1/4" out of the Tyros 2 Left output into channel 1...

I will run a 1/4" out of the Tyros 2 Right output into channel 2...

I will run a 1/4" out of the TC Helicon Left output into channel 3...

I will run a 1/4" out of the TC Helicon Right output into channel 4...

Each channel has a hi/mid/low rolling EQ, and there's two seven band EQ's on the mixer to shape the sound as needed.

Coming out of the mixer will be either a speakon OR a 1/4" cable to a 1/4" going into each Compact.

Looking around, all I seem to have are unbalanced cables. I'm guessing that balanced cables for connecting the mixer to the Compacts is optimal.

QUESTION #1:

If I'm going to use an unbalanced cable, (TS), I may experience more signal interference, especially at distances over 16 feet or so...

If I use a balanced cable, (TRS), I will have a superior signal, less if any interference and be able to run longer distances...

Right? (TRS cables seem clearly the optimal choice...)

QUESTION #2:

The mixer can run either speak-on or standard 1/4" cables out of its mains to each Compact. Is one superior signal wise than the other? I know the speakon variety is a more secure connection as its "locked" into place.

Thoughts???

Thanks!

Bill...

The Yamaha EMX 212s is a powered mixer. You would want to go out of the main outs on the front to go to your Bose Compacts.

YOU DO NOT WANT TO SEND A POWERED SIGNAL TO THE POWERED BOSE COMPACTS. You may have 2 expensive "compact" door stops!

You might want to go with...
Tyros 2 --- L/R 1/4" TS Instrument Cables out to channel 5/6 of the EMX 212s
TC Helicon --- L/R 1/4" TS Instrument Cables out to channel 7/8 of the EMX 212s
EMX 212s Front Main Out L/R 1/4" TS Instrument Cables to 1/4" TS on the Bose
--- It looks like channel 1-2-3-4 are mono channels with no pan control

If you need to run a longer distance, you could hook up a stereo DI box... 1/4" TS Instrument Cables from the EMX 212s to the DI Box---XLR Outs to Bose XLR in... then it will be balanced.

Main Out on the front of the Yamaha EMX 212s (Page 23)
----------
MAIN OUT L and R jacks
These unbalanced phone output jacks feed out the main
stereo output. You would typically connect these jacks to
a power amp or powered speakers. The signal sent to
these jacks is adjusted by the MAIN section’s MASTER
knob and graphic equalizer.
----------

Here's a link to the PDF manual on the Yamaha...

http://www.yamahacommercialaudiosystems.com/downloads/manuals/mixers/emx/emx512sc_manual.pdf

Another idea is to invest in a smaller non-powered mixer.
Yamaha MG06x $119 - Balanced XLR Out... No EQ on the Stereo Channel
Yamaha MG10xu $199... http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MG10XU/

Hope that helps and enjoy the compacts!!!

Great information and response, Jonathon!

I also have a Behringer Eurorack mx802 mixer. Its a non-powered mixer and is smaller than the Yamaha emx212s.

If I utilized the Behringer, would my connections be as follows?

Tyros 2 --- L/R 1/4" TS Instrument Cables out to channel 5/6 of the MX 802a
TC Helicon --- L/R 1/4" TS Instrument Cables out to channel 7/8 of the MX 802a
MX 802a Front Main Out L/R 1/4" TS Instrument Cables to 1/4" TS on the Bose

I also note that you say using unbalanced cables, vs. balanced. The manual for the Compacts says the following:

Connections and controls: ...#10) 1/4 input - Balanced analog input for connecting guitars and other instruments. Accepts either 1/4-inch TRS balanced or TS unbalanced cables.

Thoughts?

Thanks again for your help...

Bill
Main outs from Behringer mixer go to your Bose.Tyros and your Helicon you can do as you describe.When you plug everything in first turn on your Tyros and Helicon than turn on the mixer and at the end turn on your speakers.When you turn off go the oposite way.
I hope you didn't plug in your powered mixer to your powered speakers the way you described.

Mirza- haven't plugged anything into anything yet...

All of the above setups seem too complicated for this old man. Why not just eliminate the mixer entirely - you really don't need it.

With my rig, when I use a pair of L1 Compacts, I connect the right output of the keyboard to the L1 sitting on my right using a 10-foot heavy duty 1/4 inch unbalanced cable. Then I connect the left output of the keyboard to the Bose L1 compact on my left with another 10-foot heavy duty unbalanced cable.

My TC Helicon Harmony-M is connected to the keyboard's Line/mic input using a 6-inch 1/4-inch unbalanced cable. The TC has it's own effects, but you can also combine them with the keyboard's vocal effects if you need something additional.

All of the EQs can easily be set on the keyboard using the 5-band master EQ in the mixing console, and the 3-band mic EQ in the mic settings section of the keyboard.

If I have a guest or party host that needs to make an announcement, I plug my Samson Q7 into one of the Bose L1 mic inputs, which has a 2-band EQ system assigned to the mic input channel.

If I have a guest singer, which is extremely rare, I plug their mic into that channel and let them sing their heart out. If they want effects, then I tell them to buy a 6 channel Behringer or Alesis mixer with effects, and plug the output of that into the Bose L1 Compact's RCA connections, which works just fine for that purpose and without having any effect on the keyboard.

No mixer involved in my setup for a decade and I was glad to eliminate it from the rig.

Good luck,

Gary

Gary it doesn't get any simpler that this.Hooking up mixer and speakers..Me personaly, I would never get rid of mixer.I finally mooved to digital mixer and I love it.

OK, so it sounds like I can use the unbalanced cables for now and if I really want to maximize the sound, I can pick up two balanced cables for connecting the mixer to the compacts...

Awesome...

Mirza, you cannot imagine anything simpler to hook up than my current rig - I, like 99 percent of the people here, worked with mixers for years. Bill probably does more jobs than anyone on this forum, including myself, and I do a lot of jobs. When you get to this point, you want the least number of connections, the smallest number of components in the rig, and the lightest weight you can find, yet still retain quality. It's that simple. My setup time, when I take my time, is 7 minutes or less. When I'm in a rush, I can do it in 5 minutes, and that's by the clock - not a guesstimate.

Cheers,

Gary

Gary I believe you.Nothing wrong with the way you do your setup.

Here's my typical setup for every job, including some of the larger ones. The only difference between the small jobs and the large jobs is I use two Bose L1 compacts for the large jobs, which takes an extra 60 seconds to setup and connect.



Cheers,

Gary

Bill, remember to K.I.S.S. If you must use a mixer, go as small and light as possible. Don't buy any new cables unless you feel you must. Only you know what sound will please you, BUT personally, I agree 111% with Gary.

Great feedback, guys...very much appreciated...

I tried the Behringer mixer, which is slightly heavier but similar in size to the Tonematch. I rarely use it and it didn't occur to me until I was doing a voice check that it has no effects! Ugh. I ran back to the car, grabbed the tonematch and swapped it out.

I wound up running the keyboard into the mixer as I always have, and added a 2nd cable coming out of the voice processor. A 1/4" out of the tonematch to one Compact. Another 1/4" from the 1st Compact to the 2nd.

It sounds pretty damn good.

The suggestion that I'd be dissatisfied with the low end seems bizarre to me. There was ample low end, almost too much. Plenty of power, crystal clear vocals (almost studio quality) and other than having no sustain all night, it sounded terrific. One Compact will be PLENTY for 50-60% of my NH's.

If I use the Yamaha box mixer, it may be a truer stereo mix, but honestly, I'm not sure. I know the connection chain tonight wasn't stereo, but still very good. Tomorrow, I have a 5 hour (that's right, a 5 hour) gran opening for a new AL in the area. I'll use the Yamaha tomorrow and come out of the R/L outputs and see if I can hear a difference, and just how much.

You learn so much from nights like tonight. You learn what works, what doesn't and what might...

I suspect I will happily live with the tonematch going forward. Which will drop the price a bit of the L1M1 I'll be selling very soon. Hmmm, I paid $2500 for the L1 & Tonematch several years ago, its clearly worn, but works perfectly. I have the owners manual, the boxes it was shipped in. The cases are shot.

I think I'll be looking in the range of $1300-1500 for the L1...

If you're interested or know someone who is, pass this along to them, along with my contact info. I'll be posting it formally soon, but SZ was always going to be my first attempt...

I am tired...good night.............

Bill,
You can absolutely get a stereo mix using the Tone Match - you need to use the aux out and configure the inputs a bit differently, but it's so easy.
Eg:
Ch1 pumps thru main out
Ch2 pumps thru aux out only (main knob turned down, only use gain control)
etc

Can you explain it to me step by step like I'm a moron, please?

I tried it that way and wasn't happy with it, but I don't remember why? Senility.