Here's my take. I'll be in Atlanta; hopefully, with enough break to visit Chas, on the 7th, 8'th and 9'th. I'll be working on a video of an installation of an Italian staircase kit. I'll walk into the production with a rough of a score to familiarize the shooters with the attitude and tempo of the the piece. The rough will also go to Italy for the management folks to hear.

That rough will be done on an arranger. When I get the film to the next stage, I'll go into the studio to do the final score, and hire as many top players as the budget can support.

Why? Well, from a financial standpoint, the more I play, the less out-of-pocket. Many times, a lot of people will say, "why not use the first piece?".

Well, that doesn't meet MY EXPECTATIONS. Even my friend Rory, after listening to the rough I had Don post a while back, said, "what was wrong with the rough? Well, the guitars weren't real, the B-3 wasn't a B-3, I needed a real flute, etc. And, the project could support the improvements.

I'll do a project for a non-profit late next week and am toying with using an arranger for the score. That's because there is no budget for a full blown production. If the effort isn't satisfactory to me, I'll take the time to do a conventional multi-track production, with me playing all parts.

We'll see. The point is, whatever the project, you need to satisfy yourself; meet your expectations.

We ALL need to be PROUD of our projects.

Russ

But surely bill doesn't that mean I could connect my keyboard to a computer and do the same thing you do ? That's not anything like using a keyboard workstation in the manner the original clip at the start of this discussion set out when spelling out the differences between an arranger and workstation .

If I had a controller keyboard and a daw the entire workstation Comparison is redundant don't you think ?

And russ gave a great example of how he would use an arranger to flesh out a rough project then take it to a studio and get it done professionally . Much like a producer would use a workstation . The only thing I would add is that he could do an awful lot of the refining of the project on a workstation or workstation arranger before it got to a studio .

But if he wanted to he could deliver the finished piece to an acceptable standard to his clients on either an arranger or workstation . Isn't that just another real world illustration of the interchangeable use of an arranger as a workstation ?

Hi Spalding

You can certainly connect your PA1x to a computer; however all you would be doing is using your PA1x as a limited capability controller. (This is what I do with a dedicated controller as I don’t have hardware Workstation)

A hardware Workstation is a controller and DAW in 1 package with no need to connect to anything extra. (Plugging in a bigger screen into the Workstation though will make things easier to view)

I never said an arranger could not be used for basic arranging, just that it was completely out of its depth when it comes to production. (Production & Arranging are not the same)

Bill

Hi Don, so happy to see you progressing so nicely on the health front. As my SECOND favorite 'Southern Gentleman' (sorry, I think RUSS mentioned me in his will - now, all I have to do is outlive him ), AND Synthzone's leading wit, your contributions are vital to the intellectual health of this forum; else we could be stuck with 'a steaming pile of' "who's gigging New Years Eve?" (the more intriguing question would be "who's giging on Tuesday night in the middle of February in Podunk, Ar?" - that's where you'll find the REAL pro ).

Spalding, since the rest of our conversation is merely opinion anyway (expressed ad nauseum), let's talk about Cory Henry. After seeing some of his amazing synth performances, I was just amazed to see his virtuosity on Hammond Organ (heel and toe pedal player too) and drums. He also sings. And if that isn't enough, he seems to cap every super performance with the most infectious smile/grin/laugh as if to say "wow, we nailed it". This guy just MAKES you love him.

Workstation or Arranger? I'll take one of each, thank you. They help remind me how good my organ sounds .

chas

Ha ha ! Chas the arranger and work station are a heck of lot easier to put in your car than an organ ☺️ Have you seen the clip of snarky puppy and laylah Hathaway . It will blow your mind .

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0SJIgTLe0hc

Hi Chas

Players like that is what put me and many others off Jazz when we were younger, however as we have got older and understand it more we now get it.

I took a couple of friends to our local jazz night and it went down quite well with them, but they were completely confused when we were clapping before the piece had finished, as to them it seemed a bit of an alien way of doing things compared to other types of music. (I explained it as just applauding a solo which I think worked)

Bill

Bill, I applaud you for at least keeping an open mind and not just rejecting something out of hand just because it may not have made it through your cultural filters as a young person. I further applaud you for introducing your friends to a new experience. That's what life is all about. Okay, I'm off to the Grand ol' Opry....well, soon.

Spalding, to paraphrase the song 'He ain't heavy, he's my brother', all I can say is, 'It ain't heavy, it's my organ'. On the Cory/SP thing, yes, I've listened to everything I could find by them on the 'net and each new thing just gets better and better (I think my favorite might be Lingus). I'm still trying to find something with him playing arranger keyboard .

chas

You are wicked chas :-) . Well we have seen what marco parisi can do with an arranger and it would be just scary to imagine what cory could do with one if he had any length of time with it :-)

I am going to start another thread just for you cha as I have found another exciting musician I know you are going to love .

I hear you Bill . You are completely right in that an arrangement is not necessarily a fully produced piece if work .

But I am extremely confidant that the majority of workstation users , my guess is over 90 percent (based on the keyboard musicians from the numerous fellowships I have worked with over the last 10 years ) never use their workstation for production , they use it for arrangement . They have hundreds or even thousands of incomplete sequences , 8 bar grooves ,musical doodles / sketch pad ideas much like you said you have and I also have..... But the finished article 90 percent of the time is not done on any keyboard . In fact you could describe most of the work done on workstations as arrangements and not fully produced pieces despite the capability to do so .

You can of course go deeper into the production process with a workstation but for most real life examples (not just discussions about technical features or capacity or expandability ) the korg pa arrangers can do most of the functions that most workstation user actually need and use in one unit as a workstation .