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#390169 - 06/28/14 11:03 AM Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail
rosetree
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This is a "studio" Roland Integra-7 version of Bert Kaempfert's "Skokiaan" from the early 1960s. I tried to capture every detail of Kaempfert's style. It consists of 10 sequencer tracks all played by ear (prepared via Cakewalk Sonar). All sounds are from the Integra.
http://youtu.be/h4lvr_Sp_Nc

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#390179 - 06/29/14 05:12 AM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: ]
rosetree
Unregistered


What are your feelings about such music? I have the impression these early Kaempfert tunes are very "remote" nowadays, there seems to be only a small number of people who are particularly interested in this 1960s bigband style. But I haven't encountered any other Youtube demo of digital instruments coming as close to the original style as mine. So please comment. I think I'm lost here in a tiny "niche market", I came to Kaempfert due to my father's taste (he is 85).

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#390180 - 06/29/14 07:29 AM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: ]
Bill Lewis Offline
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Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 2448
Loc: Bluffton/Hilton Head SC USA
For its time very good. Today very dated sounding and no market for it.
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#390181 - 06/29/14 09:36 AM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: ]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
There is a much bigger following for Theater Organ Music in
Europe vs the US....

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#390182 - 06/29/14 10:48 AM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: ]
rosetree
Unregistered


I think it's sad this sound is not appreciated any more. There is so much 'retro', vintage and nostalgia, why not regarding old-fashioned bigband sounds? But it tends to be used for documentaries sometimes.
I assumed at least people over 75 would still be interested in this music, but it seems not to have a strong pull effect in rest homes either.
BTW, anyway, if my Integra version manages to sound as dated as the early 60s, I achieved what I intended, as it is hard to make a synthesizer really sound like dated music. It just doesn't seem to be a profitable business to compile something like this, if there's maybe 1 Kaempfert fan per rest home ;-)


Edited by rosetree (06/29/14 11:07 AM)

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#390184 - 06/29/14 11:40 AM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: Dnj]
abacus Offline
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Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5401
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Originally Posted By: Dnj
There is a much bigger following for Theater Organ Music in
Europe vs the US....


What's Theatre Organ got to do with it?

website

Bill
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#390185 - 06/29/14 11:45 AM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: ]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5401
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Originally Posted By: rosetree
I think it's sad this sound is not appreciated any more. There is so much 'retro', vintage and nostalgia, why not regarding old-fashioned bigband sounds? But it tends to be used for documentaries sometimes.
I assumed at least people over 75 would still be interested in this music, but it seems not to have a strong pull effect in rest homes either.
BTW, anyway, if my Integra version manages to sound as dated as the early 60s, I achieved what I intended, as it is hard to make a synthesizer really sound like dated music. It just doesn't seem to be a profitable business to compile something like this, if there's maybe 1 Kaempfert fan per rest home ;-)


Most people will know the tunes but cant remember who its by, hence the name Bert Kaempfert doesnt bring back memories, also when it is played by Organ/Keyboard players it tends to be played more in the style of the modern orchestra.

Bill
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English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#390186 - 06/29/14 11:55 AM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: abacus]
rosetree
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: abacus


Most people will know the tunes but cant remember who its by, hence the name Bert Kaempfert doesnt bring back memories, also when it is played by Organ/Keyboard players it tends to be played more in the style of the modern orchestra.

Bill


That's why I think it is a quality feature if it is played with the particular 1962 sound instead of the standard modern style. And it should bring back memories more intensely then.

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#390187 - 06/29/14 12:28 PM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: abacus]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5401
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Originally Posted By: abacus
Originally Posted By: Dnj
There is a much bigger following for Theater Organ Music in
Europe vs the US....


What's Theatre Organ got to do with it?

website

Bill


Almost forgot ATOS which swamps the UK & Europe.

Bill
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English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#390204 - 06/30/14 01:36 PM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: ]
rosetree
Unregistered


BTW, in case someone IS interested in playing Bert Kaempfert music which isn't levelled and flattened by the standard arranger styles, I began to make a style out of this sequencer file (through EMC software) and might continue working on it. however, I think my EMC software version just allows conversion into various Roland style formats, probably not Yamaha.

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#390242 - 07/02/14 11:32 AM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: ]
dralion Offline
Member

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 45
Your rendition does sound like the real thing. I like it.

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#390283 - 07/03/14 04:07 PM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: dralion]
rosetree
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: dralion
Your rendition does sound like the real thing. I like it.

Thanks, happy you like it. So, obviously there are a few Kaempfert fans who found it on Youtube and appreciate it. I could have made more use of the supernatural features of the trumpet (e.g.glissandi), I didn't because when I first midi-recorded the tracks 2 years ago it was for the SonicCell, which doesn't have supernatural sounds yet. But the Integra is really capable of producing an orchestral sound quite close to Bert Kaempfert, if you are familiar with its 6,000 tones ;-).

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#392031 - 08/19/14 01:31 PM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: ]
rosetree
Unregistered


Just began to emulate a "new" old Bert Kaempfert tune: "That happy feeling", also known as the 'Sandy Becker show theme'. I only prepared the first minute so far, completely on the Yamaha MoXF with some Garritan samples installed on the flash board. I worked a lot on the acoustic guitars, had to record 4 different guitar patterns before I got the right Kaempfert swing. Don't know yet whether I'll do the complete song.
https://soundcloud.com/rorosetree/bert-k...eeling-1st-part

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#392032 - 08/19/14 02:02 PM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: ]
tony mads usa Offline
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Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
clap clap clap Bert would have a "VERY Happy Feeling" listening to this ... quite a labor of LOVE ...
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#392047 - 08/20/14 05:12 AM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: ]
montunoman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 3232
Loc: Dallas, Texas
If I hadn't have known or wasn't listening to closely, I would have thought it was the original. I hear this sort of music on a " nostolgic" AM radio station here in Dallas, Texas so there must be some interest out there. Anyways, fantastic rendition, it must have been a lot of work to put it all together!
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#392048 - 08/20/14 05:51 AM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: ]
Bernie9 Offline
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Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 5520
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
I have EMC Universal, which should convert to Others, and I am trying to find some ensemble registrations for backing up my band.

I know Yamaha and others have section sax and horns, and by using harmony, one can fatten the sound up still farther.

I and my senior audience love the "dated' sound, and we all who know Bert was and think you did a great job Rosetree.

I would like to know where I can find more section sounds as it is an art to put it together properly.

Bernie


Edited by Bernie9 (08/20/14 05:52 AM)
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#392049 - 08/20/14 05:58 AM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: ]
montunoman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 3232
Loc: Dallas, Texas
If I hadn't have known or wasn't listening too closely, I would have thought it was the original. I hear this sort of music on a " nostolgic" AM radio station here in Dallas, Texas so there must be some interest out there. Anyways, fantastic rendition, it must have been a lot of work to put it all together!
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It not the keyboard, it's the keyboardist.

www.youtube.com/channel/UCV94i--V-A8kZShmGTKyDOw

https://www.facebook.com/elgrupocache

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#392065 - 08/20/14 07:32 PM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: ]
rosetree
Unregistered


Thanks a lot for your comments. Interesting to hear that there is a radio station that plays these nostalgic tunes.
Regarding section sounds, it is an advantage of synthesizers like the moXF or the Integra that you can edit and combine so much yourself. In the MoXF, a single voice can be composed of up to 8 waveform elements. The trombones in my recording consist of two voices (one factory Yamaha Motif voice 'Bone section' and one classical brass voice from the Garritan library) each containing several waveforms.

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#392078 - 08/21/14 04:51 PM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: ]
rosetree
Unregistered


BTW, comparing the Skokiaan tune, which I realized on the Integra (see first post in this thread), and 'That happy feeling' played with the MoXF, which of the two synthesizers sounds more convincing to you in these two examples? I like the Integra strings better, the other sounds are on a par to me.

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#392085 - 08/22/14 07:33 AM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: ]
KORG80 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/27/13
Posts: 654
Rosetree,
Whether it's dated or not your renditions of Bert Kaempfert's music are superb. I'm a young 68 year old and your songs have certainly stirred the memory banks. Have you done "Swinging Safari"?

By the way this "dated" music hearkens back to the glory days of music. My local radio station had a Top 50 and the diversity and creativity displayed in the music was light years ahead of anything recorded today. Major hits by groups like the Beatles, Stones, Kinks etc. were on the same charts as "Ahab the Arab" by Ray Stevens and other novelty tunes like, "My Boomerang Won't Come Back". Instrumentals were a huge part of the music scene at that time. Anything from The Percy Faith Orchestra's "Theme From A Summer Place" to the Ventures, "Walk Don't Run". Bert Kaempfert was a big part of this musical scene.

Keep up the great work.

God Bless,
Don
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#392092 - 08/22/14 09:33 AM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: KORG80]
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
And let us not forget Sergio Mendez and Brazil 66, and Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass ...
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#392093 - 08/22/14 10:19 AM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: tony mads usa]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: tony mads usa
And let us not forget Sergio Mendez and Brazil 66, and Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass ...


The kids today hardly know who they are.. confused2

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#392099 - 08/22/14 12:16 PM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: ]
124 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 2195
Heh, glad I'm not a kid anymore. Well, not a little one. smile

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#392109 - 08/22/14 05:38 PM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: KORG80]
rosetree
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: KORG80
I'm a young 68 year old and your songs have certainly stirred the memory banks. Have you done "Swinging Safari"?


Thanks a lot. Yes, Swingin' Safari was the first one I emulated on the Roland Integra a while ago:
http://youtu.be/R6AemUtvxpc

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#392110 - 08/22/14 06:32 PM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: Dnj]
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Originally Posted By: Dnj
Originally Posted By: tony mads usa
And let us not forget Sergio Mendez and Brazil 66, and Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass ...


The kids today hardly know who they are.. confused2


when I was a teenager I did not know many of the artists from the early 1900's either ...
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#392111 - 08/22/14 08:16 PM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: ]
124 Offline
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Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 2195
Yep, schlepping a calliope around on gigs must've been a chore.:)

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#392113 - 08/23/14 06:19 AM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: 124]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Originally Posted By: 124
Yep, schlepping a calliope around on gigs must've been a chore.:)


...two, if you wanted stereo.
smile
chas
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#392131 - 08/23/14 09:59 PM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: cgiles]
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
Originally Posted By: cgiles
Originally Posted By: 124
Yep, schlepping a calliope around on gigs must've been a chore.:)


...two, if you wanted stereo.
smile
chas


another great example of a well loved sound source that was mono. Stereo Schmereo.
smile
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#392837 - 09/07/14 04:16 PM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: ]
rosetree
Unregistered


This might be interesting: I replaced the Yamaha MoXF guitars in my "That happy feeling" production with a Roland Integra finger steel strumming guitar. I think this is one of the most realistic acoustic rhythm guitars I've played on a synthesizer:

https://soundcloud.com/rorosetree/easy-l...trumming-guitar

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#392895 - 09/08/14 11:51 AM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: ]
rosetree
Unregistered


Is there an equivalent strumming guitar in the Tyros 5? In that case I would be interested in demos. In the Motifs there isn't (because there is no behavior modeling). To me it seems to be one of the reasons to definitely keep the Integra.

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#392988 - 09/09/14 02:03 PM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: ]
rosetree
Unregistered


If no Tyros 5 users contradict here regarding the Integra strumming guitar, I assume they are eating humble pie... ;-)

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#392996 - 09/09/14 03:39 PM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: ]
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
I am unable to open the link ...can you post it direct to SZ?

I got it to work with Google Chrome..


Edited by Fran Carango (09/09/14 03:45 PM)
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#392997 - 09/09/14 03:57 PM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: ]
rosetree
Unregistered


I'll try to attach the file directly:


Attachments
14j-ThatHappy-IntegraGtr.MP3 (61 downloads)


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#393013 - 09/10/14 07:30 AM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: ]
rosetree
Unregistered


Still no opinions? I'm just asking about the strumming guitar, not about this very simplistic easy listening piece.

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#393014 - 09/10/14 07:53 AM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: ]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Guitar "strumming" sounds very muddled in this demo....IMO T5 wins this in this category, T5 Guitars are hard to beat..

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#393016 - 09/10/14 08:31 AM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: ]
rosetree
Unregistered


Sometimes Yamaha sounds are very bright,but not too realistic, so I'll look for demos which beat this in realism...

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#393018 - 09/10/14 09:47 AM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: ]
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
I think your strumming guitar sounds very realistic...what is perceived as "muddled", in fact is what a real guitar sounds like in this range..

Folks like the Yamaha guitars because they sound good...but not always real...Tyros5 does have some of the best guitars...very playable, but not always realistic...
Your demo shows a nice strumming technique..
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#412349 - 12/01/15 05:39 PM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: ]
rosetree
Unregistered


Finally, a new addition to my Kaempfert tunes: The Happy Trumpeter. Again, I further optimized the typical Kaempfert strumming guitars and "Knack bass". Trumpet, flutes and bass played live, other parts pre-recorded as sequencer tracks.

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#412350 - 12/01/15 06:53 PM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: ]
Taike Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 2815
Loc: Xingyi, Guizhou (China)
Excellent! I'm a big fan of Bert.

His music doesn't sound dated to me at all. Au contra ire, it's timeless.

Taike
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#412372 - 12/02/15 06:56 AM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: ]
rosetree
Unregistered


I really like this music, too. And I like making my instruments sound like an orchestra of the 1960s instead of a present-day mainstream (arranger) sound.
There doesn't seem to be a large Kaempfert fan base, but I have a few subscribers who really like it, one of them is a professional trumpeter from the US, with whom I'm going to record a Kaempfert tune together some time.

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#412373 - 12/02/15 07:09 AM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: ]
Taike Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 2815
Loc: Xingyi, Guizhou (China)
You sure succeed at recreating that sound, Rosetree.

You'd be amazed at how many people love Bert's music. Granted, most of them are in their fifties and up, but still a force to reckon with. In fact, those that love Hansi, love Bert as well.
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最猖獗的人权侵犯 者讨论其他国 家的人权局势而忽略本国严重的人权 问题是何等伪善。

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#412377 - 12/02/15 07:26 AM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: ]
Marcus Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/12
Posts: 210
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: rosetree
I really like this music, too. And I like making my instruments sound like an orchestra of the 1960s instead of a present-day mainstream (arranger) sound.
There doesn't seem to be a large Kaempfert fan base, but I have a few subscribers who really like it, one of them is a professional trumpeter from the US, with whom I'm going to record a Kaempfert tune together some time.


First time checking out this thread. Yes, really nice work to accurately reproduce that nostalgic feel from the 60s. Not easily accomplished.

I'm sure you must of worked on the DSPs to minimize the stereo spread for that mono effect, added some LowFi effects, and tweaked the reverb to get the ambiance close. I guess if these effects were added to a nice guitar strumming sample, one can argue that the overall sound becomes a bit "muddled", but that is the exact effect you require to get that nostalgic feel correct.

In regards to the Tyros 5 guitar voices and strumming effects, several styles do have a really nice strumming programming for those style parts. A few multipads, and of course you can change to any other suitable guitar. Good strumming style parts and different rhythm variations are not that easy to find. Whenever a nice Premium Style is introduced that has a good quality guitar part, I sometimes purchase the style just for the strumming guitar part and rework those style parts into other styles as I need them.

Even then, all the effects are optimized for that modern premium processed sound you find on all the new arrangers. No lack of of really good guitar voices, programming, and DSP/AMP effects on the Tyros 5 or latest S970, but to obtain that nostalgic sound that you nailed with your Integra Sound Module would require a lot of experimenting. The other option of course, would be to sample sounds and voices from that era and compose on any sampling arranger.

Nice job, good thread. Thanks for sharing.

Marcus
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#412408 - 12/02/15 12:06 PM Re: Nostalgic Bert Kaempfert sound in detail [Re: Marcus]
rosetree
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Marcus

I'm sure you must of worked on the DSPs to minimize the stereo spread for that mono effect, added some LowFi effects, and tweaked the reverb to get the ambiance close. I guess if these effects were added to a nice guitar strumming sample, one can argue that the overall sound becomes a bit "muddled", but that is the exact effect you require to get that nostalgic feel correct.
...
Even then, all the effects are optimized for that modern premium processed sound you find on all the new arrangers. No lack of of really good guitar voices, programming, and DSP/AMP effects on the Tyros 5 or latest S970, but to obtain that nostalgic sound that you nailed with your Integra Sound Module would require a lot of experimenting. The other option of course, would be to sample sounds and voices from that era and compose on any sampling arranger.

Nice job, good thread. Thanks for sharing.

Marcus


Thanks, nice you like it. Actually, I didn't really work on the effects, and I didn't reduce stereo. Only for the flutes part I changed the equalizer to reduce bass to get a more typical cool and distant sound. The Integra SN-A Marcato strings are also good for the more demure, distant Kaempfert sound.
The crucial components are the characteristic "knocking" pick bass and the strumming guitars. For the bass, the extremely versatile choice of the Integra's 6,000 sounds is a real plus to find the right one. It is on the SRX 03 expansion, but I edited it to enhance the "knocking" part. The guitars were complex, it's one guitar with a fast ternary movement played by the Integra EX-SN4 steel strumming guitar (a very dry sound but with realistic strumming, but each chord played manually by me) and a more "juicy" sounding steel guitar from the MoXF with a slower pattern (also played manually).
So the Kaempfert sound is more created due to the careful choice of sounds and the way of playing (each track played live when pre-recording, also drum brushes) rather than due to effects here.

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