I was commenting on a subject in another thread and it started me thinking about something I’ve been wanting to post about for a while now.

I’ve noticed a few of the members here have made reference to religion in their posts. I didn’t want to bring religion into a synthesizer group up to now, but I’m thinking, why not, if it has to do with music?

When I first started playing back in my teens, I realized I was given a gift (music talent). Then after a couple of years of thinking about it, I decided not to focus on the paycheck anymore but to play for my Higher Power and to concentrate more on entertaining His people. (That, by the way, was the best decision I ever made.)

So I’m wondering how many of you out there have strong religious beliefs they live by and that they play music by or do you have any comments about how your own Higher Power affects your attitude towards playing your music (to audiences or to yourself even)?

Mark ..............

Hi Mark,

Okay, so I'll bite...

We play ONLY Gospel - period. I think we compare quite well to many playing secular music on their arrangers.

However, we use music as a tool. We'll start off with high energy music that stirs up the soul realm (the mind, will & emotion realm). Next we'll flow into softer music that touches the spirit realm (the heart). Often I'll end up using my guitar only like over here. Normally, when we do this we see the extra normal manifesting like in that 10 min video clip.

So yes, to us music is a God giving talent that we are trying to utilize to the fullest extend. We use it to lay down the foundation (atmosphere) where He can do His work.

Also, where we reach out normally, everyone is busy doing his own thing. We have to grab the attention of the bystanders enough to come listen to what we have to say. And here music plays no small part in it. It has to be powerful & it has to be loud to start off with.

And yes, we are used to the police being called out as a result. However, to this day they've never stopped or even harassed us. They just listen for awhile and then move on & let us be to do His work...

Cheers,

Henni

I'm sorry Henni, but don't the people who are being subjected to this UNSOLICITED and in some cases, UNWANTED (someone DID call the police) high-decibel 'entertainment' have some rights.....like the right not to have their ears blasted off by someone trying to 'get their attention' (in order to) force THEIR beliefs down their throats. I know that if it happened in my neighborhood, the police WOULD be called, but mainly to clean up the mess and identify the bodies.

I get so tired of self-appointed 'do-gooders' trying to impose their will and beliefs on the rest of society, as though the rest of us are children, in need of parental guidance. I say, you believe what you believe and let the rest of us do the same. Want to feed the hungry? clothe the naked; fine, I applaud that; but do it without the proselytizing.

JMO, of course. And yes, this topic does need to be discussed in THE BAR (in fact, a BAR is a very appropriate place for this type of discussion, as it takes quite a few drinks for most religions to make sense).

chas

Yup mate,

Bet you don't watch any ads on TV also! Wish I could show you some of the changed lives as a result... We actually meet some of them from time to time! From stone drunk, jobless, clothed in rags to well dressed, employed & living a normal lifestyle once again!

So the police should put an end to this???

Henni

Oh Boy! Another opportunity to thank god I'm an atheist.

I totally agree with Chas...this stuff should be in THE BAR.

Ian

I am a Christian but I can see this discussion going South very quickly. If folks dont want to participate in the discussion its really easy to ignor it. But given the immediate strength of feeling ..I do think that some discusssion however well meant are prone to cause more heat than light.... best take it to the Bar .

I think it is quite appropriate since it is a discussion of using arrangers to make music in certain situations and being inspired by that situation. No different from discussing best way to use them in nursing homes, or honky-tonks and being inspired by the applause or shouts of "Play Mustang Sally!"
The thread is clearly labeled. If it doesn't interest you, just don't read it.
Right or wrong, the atheists here are quite likely in the minority. I certainly believe there is a Higher Power. I KNOW there is.

I usually play multiethnik and multi-religeous parties, and I refuse to even learn any religous songs.That way there is no way for me to do any religous songs.

The difference though, Don, is YOU don't insist that I believe it to. That's a mighty BIG difference for me. Plus, 'Higher Power' could be anything from NATURE to a Voodoo doll. The highest power I'm aware of is knowledge, scientific fact, logic, common sense, and empathy for the other inhabitants of our planet.

BTW, I'm used to being a minority so that doesn't bother me as I've seen too many examples of the 'majority' not necessarily being 'right' (and the horrible consequences of same).

chas

I guess, people think whatever you do in the name of god must be a good thing.Even killing!!
As long as you do "God's" work , it's ok.It's been done thousands years ago, it's been done hundreds years ago, it's being done today and it will be done tomorrow too.Haleluya!!!!!

Friend,

You've got real Christianity mixed with religion. The first lay down their very lives for others. The latter are trying to live to a set of rules only and it's them killing others.

The first have had a touch from God. He changed them from the inside out. He breathed His life into them and they can never be the same. They have His Spirit inside of them. That's why we proclaim them to be born again.

The latter are as yet unregenerated induvidials. They conform to a set of rules only. They are dead, both in this life and also in the life to come.

All atheists judge real Christians by religion. Biggest mistake you can make as the two are so far seperated as the east is from the west.

The former carries life. It shows on their faces, in their eyes and in their very lifestyle.

Just so you know mate,

Henni

That's pretty much where I am in the scheme of things...anything else was generally manufactured by men to achieve control over others in some way or form.

Ian

Yeah Henni, whatever. Still, I'm glad 10,000 miles separates my neighborhood from those 18" subwoofers.

chas

Our black townships must be quite different to what you are used to. They are a noisy bunch. You'll find a serious disco taking place at one home and two houses alng the line another disco. Both outside on the lawn with their speakers blasting away under full volume. They cannot hear each othe due to their own individual racket.

That's mostly where we operate and that's also why they tolerate us. We would have it no other way. They are the majority over here by far. No use reaching out to the stiff necked minority who deem themselves as being something special only because of their skin colour.

Our main aim is to equip ourselves to go do what we do in Africa and we firmly believe we'll be active over there soon. And that's not for the fainthearted ore the religious ones as one is very likely to loose ones life over there as a result. Both me & Monica are willing to pay that price if it comes to it.

I think our pics vouch for our lifestyles and we have three and a half thousand of those by now. We give. We don't take and e don't kill. Here's how we separate religion from true re-born saints and it works EVERYTIME!

Cheers,

Henni

Here are a few pics to show what I mean. We don't kill. We don't take. We GIVE:

View 01

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Cheers,

Henni

Well Henni.Christianity is one of religions ...
Back to topic..I believe there is no need for religous songs in public places, in schools.Especially in schools.No religion at all.Unless they want to start teach kids about all religions in general.That is they way kids should learn.About all religions.Maybe than we will have a chance to understand each other in the future.

Henni, these pics are good...People should help people, no matter colour of skin or religion.One thing I would like to see for once is helping these people keeping their own religion.

No mates,

Religion is not involved. Let me tell you how it is:

Any human consists of a soul, a spirit & a body. All of us are three beings in one.

When one surrenders his/her life unconditionally to Jesus, the Bible says that He replaces their Spirit with His. He removes their hearts of stone & gives them hearts of flesh that can obey Him.

It is a supernatural thing. The very next day one develops this extreme, supernatural hunger for the Bible and one cannot put it down. It gets carried wherever one goes in ones back pocket.

Then the first name calling starts, EXACTLY as spelled out in the Bible. The first thing one is labelled is being a "Bible Puncher"

This did not come by choice. It came as a direct result of a touch from Him. And then the changes start, by itself, from the inside out. It is He changing one, not one deciding to change ones lifestyle.

I have much, much more to say on this, but it will only result in this thread being locked.

We carry LIFE within us, not religion!!! His life flows in us, through us & out of us. We are new creatures, EXACTLY like stated in His Word. He wrote His laws on our hearts - we can NEVER be he same again!

And all it took was a sincere prayer in which we surrendered completely and unconditionally to Him.

Me & Monica neither belong to nor visit any church. We have no one teaching us or motivating us but His Holy Spirit. Yet see what we do & where we go. "It is Him working in us both to will & to do of His good pleasure", EXACTLY like stated in His Word.

Real Christianity is a experience & a VERY real one too. It is not a set of rules. It's having His life inside of one.

There are many "corpses" walking around professing to be believers, yet they've never had a touch from Jesus in all of their lives. Being brought up in a Christian home does not make one a believer, neither does going to a church. It is a personal handover to Jesus and the change ONLY happens after the handover, regardless of ones age or status. It happens at a specific moment and everyone who've been there can point back to that EXACT moment that he/she was "born AGAIN".

And here's another good test for those proclaiming to be believers: If one fears death, i.o.w. being killed, one does not know Him, neither has one had a touch from Him. For those who did long to be with Him more than anything else. They'll constantly put their lives at risk to make sure as many come to hear about His salvation as possible.

Aaaahhh, but let me stop here. I think this should suffice. All I want to point out over here is the difference between religion & real Christianity. Most who call themselves Christians aren't, even the Bible states so. The Bible says more or less (yes, I can quote it accurately if I wish) that even the demons believe in God, yet they shudder & tremble when they think on their ends. Only believing that there is a God does not make one a Christian. This is "religion" in action.

The Bible says that the letter kills, but the Spirit gives LIFE! It is as simple as that!!! Read more on what it takes to be His here.

Cheers mates,

Henni

Henni, not everyone on the planet is religious, we all have varying degrees of what we do, or do not, believe in. I don't believe what you believe, and that's why we have our individual freedoms in this nation. I sincerely believe in helping my fellow man to help him or herself. I place no constraints upon this - none! Please, I implore you, cease and desist this religious quest to convert the world to your form of belief. I am an agnostic and it's what I choose to be. I don't try to preach my agnosticism to others, and I don't really believe this type of religious tirade should be permitted on an informational and entertaining music forum.

Just my two cents worth, carry on,

Gary

Hi Gary,

It's not how we believe it to be - it is how it is & that's why we proclaim it. Oh, how thankful I am for Him to allow my eyes to be opened to see how it is. Gary, you are not a young man anymore, & neither am I. Both of us will know soon what was true & what not. Time has a way of telling... There are currently more than eight million recorded instances of near death experiences in the USA alone. Those recordings by professionals speaks volumes to anyone interested.

Me & Monica's job description is spelled out for us in Jude1:23 and that we'll fervently do as long as there is breath in us.

But alas, let's get back to the topic, shall we? I think I've said more than my share on this. Let's go back & talk music instead.

Cheers my friend,

Henni

Henni, you were doing so well there for a while. I have no problem with you and your wife helping those that need help....I try to do the same and have tried to instill that concept in my children. It's the 'other' stuff that causes the problems. Why can't we just be good human beings because centuries of human experience have taught us that 'loving thy neighbor' beats the heck out of 'killing thy neighbor' and that in helping others, we may well see that help returned one day ("pass it forward"). I just feel that we can do this without necessarily being 'touched' by Him, our imaginary friend.

The pictures are touching, to be sure, but I can't help but reflect on how these people came to be in that situation in the first place. Isn't it ironic that the man who wrote Amazing Grace was a slave ship captain? Or that these people live in a country that has probably the most natural wealth on the planet. Golly gee, wonder what happened there. Of course, you can come over here and visit some of our 'Native American' reservations and I can show you some pretty good parallels. Of course we let a handful of them 'appear' to own a couple of casinos, so I guess that makes everthing alright and all is forgiven. At least they got to keep their own religion (which tends to favor Nature over the Holy Trinity or the only blond, blue-eyed, Nordic type born in the Middle East .

My (unsolicited) advice; keep up the good humanitarian work but think of it as a stopgap. What's really needed is EDUCATION - you know, "teach a man to fish.......etc.". Look, I DO believe your heart is in the right place. I just think when you feed somebody it should be because they are hungry, not because you want to 'save their souls'. JMO, of course.

chas

Gary, what a pleasant supprise. Although I've always considered an Agnostic and Atheist without the courage of their convictions, you're half way there, buddy. A few more of those green margaritas (for clarity) and you may soon be able to join the ranks of the truly enlightened . You know, like me and Ian .

Sounds like your 'jam' was a lot of fun. Hope everyone got home safely. First time I'd heard Joe sing; I was very impressed. A very talented guy.

chas

Hi Chas,

We are NOT humanitarians - we are evangelists and proud of it! And NO! They do not merely own a few casinos over here. You should come visit & see for yourself mate. I think you'll be both shocked and surprized at what you'll find. But lets not go there...

Although I have much more to say on the topic in question & love nothing more than to discuss this to the fullest with anyone interested, I do not want to be the cause for Nigel to step in. I think I've said enough for now.

Cheers my friend,

Henni

If you want to discuss further, Henni, why not take it to The Bar?

Nothing wrong with this kind of discussion, in the right place.

My opinion, of course.

Ian

Not to worry Ian,

I'm done. That's unless anyone WANT to discuss it over there. Then I'm all for it. I like a challenge.

However, over here let's continue to discuss music in relation to ones "higher power". I've given my take on it...

Cheers,

Henni

Thanks Henni.

Ian

Since I love discussing the disastrous effects of Religion on society over the last millennium, I have started a new thread in The Bar.

chas

Oh, almost forgot. On behalf of all the miscreants who contributed to the southward direction of this thread, our sincere apologies to Mark79100, the OP. And yes, I play to my Higher Power all the time, but I'm not saying who SHE is.

chas

God bless you, Henni (and Monica). I want to recognize your wonderful loving spirit and to encourage you. God is doing great work in you and through you.

Thank you also, for speaking so passionately about what you are involved in. Like Don, I believe that everything you said was interesting, appropriate and within the context of the topic.

Blessings

I'm Native American, but not enough to get a casino. Having buffalo for dinner tonight as a matter of fact.

Don't feel bad. I'm Black and I never got my 40 acres and a mule either. Maybe I shouldn't have insisted that it be in Malibu. BTW, Buffalo Wings don't count as Buffalo. Also, as you know, Don, I too am part Native American (Grandmother 100%), so if I ever DO get that 40 acres, I'm building a casino on it.

chas

Uh, this may be as far South as this thread can go .

I think I may have a higher calling in the music business. Sometimes when I walk inot a gig someone says;

" Jesus Christ !! Are you here again ? "


Only adding some lightness to a heavy discussion.

LOL Bill exactly what the thread needed a little lightness.

I am an Atheist...

Evidence and Reason go a long way with me. As does virtue. Regardless of the motivation, I have great respect for those who devote some, most or all of their lives to helping out those in need.

Bringing this back to music, there I times I feel like a hypocrite performing gospel songs, and seeing how much some in my audiences seem to be moved by them.

In the end, I perform them respectfully, and plan on doing so for the duration of my performing days. I've been told I perform these songs as if I believed as a believer would, and I guess that's ok with me.

I don't advertise my beliefs, nor am I hired because of them.

Tx Graham!

Henni

It's amazing how a post that supposed to be an invitation to those that have religious beliefs to discuss how it influences their music and their attitude to music gets completely ransacked by people who openly accept they don't have any religious belief or who are anti religious.

Nigel put a sticky thread at the top of the forum specifically to deal with this . For peace sake read it and if it applies move on ! And I say that respectfully to those that have contributed perhaps Inappropriately so far .

We are four pages in to this topic and not one post has actually been about the topic.

So I will say this, I was brought up in a religious household and music and worship was always conjoined. So much of my attitude towards music has come from my religious upbringing. However I completely can relate to those that still feel a "spiritual connection " to great music even in a secular environment. There is no rational mind that can be used to explain why a Series of notes or chords or rhythms can affect different people in so many different ways. But as a musician that has an awareness of the impact that music can have on people for both good and negative, I make sure that I have thought about what I'm going to play how I'm going to play and who I am playing to whenever I am asked to play . I believe that the instinct of being musically creative comes from God. I don't know of any other species that specifically uses music to encourage and uplift and motivate by intention or accident .

I would be interested to hear other peoples contributions ......on this topic .

God bless .

Worth

I just finished a rather long response to the above responses. I decided NOT to post it but to post the following instead.

Since I recognize I’m not considered one of the members of the “inner circle” here anyway and since I “say it like it is” anyway, I’m going to state.....

First of all this post, and it’s true meaning (about personal experiences associated with a possible Higher Power), spiraled right out of control with what I considered to be an incendiary post by Chas directed at Henni.....that then became the new topic.

Second, I’m absolutely shocked by what I read here.....the anger, the atheism proclamations, the quick judgment calls, the misunderstanding about should you be playing “religious songs,“ political views about religion that have more to do with killings and control of the population than with music, religion in the schools, the attack on Henni for trying to do something to make the world a better place (would you have more respect for him if he were a drug dealer selling his wares on a street corner?).....and, above all, the disrespect for another member who was genuinely seeking comments about a topic that has been important to him for many years.....that member being ME! I’m a very deep thinker and this topic I brought up I’ve never been able to discuss with anyone.

I never viewed the SynthZone as another DisneyWorld, but then I never saw it as an arena for gladiatorial combat either!

Yes, I considered putting the question in the Bar, but decided to lay it down here as most of you know something about me by now, where I’m coming from, my recent “burnout,” my view on other issues, my personality, my curiosities about music and life in general, etc. In the Bar, I would be just another Joe Smith coming out of nowhere. Besides, I was of the opinion, that if the topic is not appealing to you or goes against YOUR beliefs, then the member would just pass over it rather then take it upon himself to enter into battle!

I’m understanding more than ever now why they say if you want to stay on friendly terms with someone.....don’t discuss politics or religion (the weather seems to be a safe subject.....or is even that grounds for volatility now?).

I think in the future, being painfully aware that any club, anywhere is going to be a microcosm of the real world, I’m going to stick with questions about keyboards, speakers, and, maybe, what’s the best way to barbecue hamburgers?

BTW.....points to Chas for having enough consideration to apologize for my post being tossed into the SynthZone paper shredder (“on behalf of all the miscreants who contributed to the southward direction of this thread, our sincere apologies to Mark79100, the OP.”)

And, above all, an overabundance of thanks to Spalding for introducing some common sense and hearing what I actually said and maybe explaining it better than I could have (message #390925).

Mark (with no red letters this time around!)

Mark-I think if you put a juicy bone like this out there, you're going to get a wide array of responses that truly cover the waterfront. Surely, you realized that before you posted, yes?

To the specific question of a higher power, for those of us who don't believe in one, where does our inspiration, abilities, skills, etc. come from?

I say the higher power would be roughly equivalent to the degree people have a willingness to work at one's craft, the sum-total of one's life experience and their awareness/consciousness of that, and luck.

In other words, I say each of us is, in a way, the "higher power." We've put the time in, we've worked at our craft and allowed life to influence our art. I also think luck has a great deal to do with it as so often in life circumstances beyond one's control set the course we pursue.

Its a trait that is inherent in us as a species. Some have developed it to a stunningly high degree. Others enjoy it passionately via others. While it's music for us, it might be poetry, dance, sculpture, painting, writing, etc. for someone else.


To me, it is an expression of our humanity. That others wish to give credit to some other thing or concept, doesn't bother me in the least.

By the way, be nice to Christians who proselytize. They are doing it because they love you! God gives you perfect freedom to agree or disagree, but please also do so in love! Penn Jillette, British comedian and well known outspoken atheist explains it very well in this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owZc3Xq8obk

Blessings

And also, be nice to Atheists who do not proselytize...they aren't doing it, because, they love you.

Also, Penn Jillette is an American illusionist, comedian, musician, inventor, actor, and best-selling author known for his work with fellow magician Teller in the team Penn & Teller.

He is also known for his advocacy of atheism, scientific skepticism, libertarianism and free-market capitalism.

His partner Teller is also an atheist, debunker, skeptic.

I really enjoy their work and their views.

Ian

Ditto!

I just want to compliment MOST posters here. This is a very volatile subject, and there have been some extremely heartfelt, revealing posts.

I appreciate that. things could have gone way south....FAST.


Thanks, so much!


Russ

Ian and Gary, sorry about getting Penn's nationality wrong. I do not think the point Penn makes works in reverse but will continue the discussion in the bar.

I just wanted to temper some of the surprisingly aggressive approaches taken by some of the atheists on the board to Henni's passionate arguments. It looks like I did a poor job!

Actually, I thought Henni was rather aggressive in his approaches as well...but two wrongs don't make a right all the same.(I don't think that's in the bible).

As stated earlier, things pertaining to religion or god can be volatile and easily get out of hand...remember we are "writing" responses, and facial expressions and body language can't be seen.

Ian

Mate,

When it comes to the things of GOD I am extremely aggressive. So was Jesus. Much, much is at stake here.

Please discuss over at the bar & not over here.

Henni