Not a rant......just an observation......

Can't seem to trust these product demo videos online at all.

I know that they just about always run the output of a board into off-camera monitors and speakers to make it sound better...

The give-away is the lines coming out of the back of the board in the videos...

so that's a given......

but I don't know how many times I've been to stores, looked at the product in question......and after hooking it up to good in-store monitors:- it still doesn't sound the like the video demo.

Which leads me to the conclusion that not only are the videomakers running the sound through high-end monitors...they are also further editing the sound on a DAW or edit program.

I suppose I should have expected that too......

But the demos are totally misleading when it comes to the actual untouched-up unedited sound.


You just can't be too careful..........

Buyer beware always...just sayin'

Most of the demos I've seen are performed by highly professional and very skilled players, and I'm confident the output of the keyboard is going directly into the camera's audio line input. Nothing wrong with that - no different than going into any sound system. So what's your beef? Nothing hoaky about the demos. Now, I only wish I could play as good as Michael Vonken and most of the other players that provide the demos - those folks are fantastic players, and obviously, they really know the ins and outs of the keyboards they play.

Cheers,

Gary

Travlin' easy......

The fact that a demo is performed by a skilled player has nothing to do with the sound quality emanating from the device.....other than it sounds good because he or she is a pro.

The person playing it isn't the issue.........the issue is that the sound has usually been doctored way too much in the video to make it sound way better than it is.....

And you have proof that in every instance the sound is going directly into the camera audio line input?

How can this be when the L/R cable outputs from the board will not work plugged directly into a camera because 99.999999% of the cameras out there do not have these inputs......unless it's reworked through another unit first.

There is everything "hoaky" about the sound in most of these videos..........

The players themselves are mostly very good........even though they're probably being paid to star in the demo.

They may know the "ins" and "outs' of a key board ( generally highliting all the "ins" and never touching the "outs").

So my beef is exactly what I said it was..........doctored sound that does not truly represent the actual sound in many instances.

... personally, I even think the voices in the demos on the various KBs are better than the sounds produced by the KBs in the hands of the owners ...

When I worked in TV, which was in the early 70s, all of our cameras had line inputs and a shotgun Mic. Only cheap, non professional cameras do not have. These features. No manufacturer is going to.use an amateur camera for a demo video.

Gary

My Kodak Zi10 camera has stereo audio inputs. $150.00

But even if the sound was processed that is something anyone could do in this digital age, and could be done realtime with an exciter or EQ processor.

Right---And Nigel ought to know, being a video programmer.

All online demos these days are recorded into a mixer and the footage loaded into a video editing software program to get the pictures and sound just as they want, unfortunately unless you have the same equipment and knowledge of how to use it, (Not forgetting being prepared to buy the extra equipment) then you will never be able to get your keyboard to sound like the demo. (This is the reason I never make any decision of the sound until I play the instrument myself (Online demos are for entertainment only and serve no useful purpose as to what the keyboard sounds like)

Bill

I agree, Nigel, and I doubt if anything used making these demos isn't available, in one form or another, to most users wanting similar quality recordings.

It goes without saying that a manufacturer will strive for the highest possible recording quality for showcasing its product, but wouldn't any user who is looking for the best reproduction of his recorded music?

Most high-end (and some mid-range) Arrangers, like my Yamaha Tyros4, have on-board high quality audio recorders, plus these instruments (as do similar products from the competition) also have extensive EQ'ing/Compressing and effects processing (the T4 also has an exciter/enhancer) and detailed editing capability that allows even the average user to achieve some excellent results without any outboard devices.

In fact, if you listen to some on-line demos that were recorded in a more casual environment such as a music store, it's often quite possible to hear recordings at the same level of quality as the manufacturer specific demos.

And of course, we have to include the uploads by some of our own SZ'ers (i.e. Telmo) that exude similar quality and attention to detail.

Ian

Absolutely agree. Any manufacturer or service provider, which is basically what we OMB's are, is going to promote themselves in the most positive light. To do otherwise is putting yourself at a disadvantage, and why would anyone do that? It defeats the purpose of putting your product out there in the first place.

If I were going to make a video of ME playing the S-950, a video that I would use for sales promotion of my OMB product(s), I would probably record my demo using the onboard recorder, then synch it with high-resolution video. When I watched Michael Vonken demoing the S-950 at the shows on YouTube, there were connections made to the back of the keyboard. I'm fairly confident that those connections were going to a mixer, then through the best sound system, and also outputted directly into the video camera. For the few years I worked as a TV reporter, and newscaster, we used Ikegami TV cameras, which were quite heavy to haul around on your shoulder, about 50 pounds. In the studio, the same brand of camera was used when in-studio production work was done, TV commercials for example, and in every instance, we had a sound board coming from the various devices in the studio, and that sound board went directly into the camera's line input.

Now, I would suspect that any manufacturer, especially one that distributes their products to a worldwide market, would do the same when making promo videos. Do I know this for sure? Absolutely not - but from past experience in the field I'm fairly confident this is the case.

Now, we do the same thing when we perform. I know some folks that try to get away with the least expensive amps and mics they can, but I feel that defeats the purpose. I have always prided myself in my sound systems, and in reality, cost was never a factor. For me, being an OMB entertainer is a business, and I want my business to sound better than the competition. I want to be able to get the very best sounds out of every piece of gear I use on stage. I would think any manufacturer would do the same for demos.

As for buying a piece of equipment, especially an arranger keyboard, based on what I see or hear on a demo, not a prayer. That demo will put me in a mind frame to take a look at the keyboard in person, and there have been times that I have traveled great distances to hear, see and touch those keyboards, sound systems, mics, etc...

As for the manufacturers trying to pull a scam on consumers with their demos, no, I don't believe this is the case. If it were, they wouldn't be in business very long. Misrepresenting a product in any way, shape or form, is strictly against the laws of the Federal Trade Commission. Anyone that does so is on deep doo doo, at least in the U.S..

All the best,

Gary

I think we've pretty much got a consensus here. Maybe the OP has learned something.

Used car Salesman comes to mind...

I dare anyone to record the same song as the demo in your keyboard and place on this forum.

Yes, if you have all the knowledge that the performers and engineers have, then you might be able to. That would include the ability to create special sounding instruments with effects that most of us do not understand and spending more time than we wish to give – it is their 9 to 5 five days a week job. They get paid to create demos.

IN my humble opinion, John C.

Right on, John ... I've always felt that the on-board demos were there to show the 'potential' of the KB ... but it is potential that 99.99999% of us will never achieve because we lack SOMETHING - whether it be the expertise, time, desire, need, or ALL of the aforementioned - whatever ...
Personally, I preferred to put in enough time to make my KB sound good -to me, and therefore, hopefully my audiences - and spend the REST of my time PLAYING it ...

The on-board demo on my rather mature Yamaha MU80 still sounds pretty good straight off the device and I'm sure that is a midi file playback operation (rather than a stored wave file) due to the limited memory capacity of the device.

Nevertheless without some very serious midi and sys-ex editing I know I could not approach the level of realism attained in the demo. As for playing it live.....

I visited an old friend of mine, and retired arranger keyboard entertainer, Jerry Burns. Jerry and his wife Elsa played the Baltimore nite club and restaurant circuit for nearly a half century, he was Peabody trained, and knew more about musical instruments than anyone I ever met. His fingers flowed over the keyboard like magic, and when he played a piano or sax, you could close your eyes and they were as realistic sounding as if there were a fantastic pianist or sax player standing right in front of you.

He tried out my S-950, which is light years ahead of his old PSR-2000. His wife, Elsa, who was an outstanding vocalist, especially with jazz numbers, sang some of the songs Jerry played on the S-950 using my old Samson Q7 plugged directly into the keyboard's mic input using a homemade adapter cable. I was amazed at just how great they still sounded after three years of not playing or singing a note. WOW!

I'm quite confident that Jerry could sit down and record demos for any keyboard, and make them sound like a million bucks. He didn't need any special effects, he just played as he has always played. As has been stated many times on this and other forums, "It's not the keyboard - it's the keyboard player!" So true - so true. While driving home that afternoon, I thought to myself, Damned, I should have recorded that. But alas, I was too enthralled with what I was hearing from my old friends.

Cheers,

Gary

Gary ... I don't doubt your friend's MUSICAL talent in the least, and I'm sure he made your 950 sound GREAT ...
but when talking about the SOUNDS of the on-board demos, we are NOT just talking MUSICIANSHIP, but also the TECHNICAL expertise needed to get the voices to sound like the demos ... as great as your friend may have sounded, I doubt that the VOICES he used sounded JUST LIKE the ones in the on-board demos ... it takes TECHNICAL expertise, and fully 'digging in' to the KB to achieve those sounds ...
I doubt that there is a player on this forum who took his/her KB out of the box and kept the factory sounds 'as is' ... everyone has 'tweaked' a board to some extent ... taking that to the 'Nth' degree might bring the sounds close to the demos ...

And you are right - a great player can sound great on a cheap board, but a lousy player will still sound lousy on a Steinway ...

JMHO

Hey, ya gotta razzle dazzle them. Lloyd

Tony, keep in mind that he was playing MY keyboard, the one that I fine tuned the styles and EQs so the overall sound far exceeds the OOTB sounds. The big difference it that when he plays a sax or guitar sound with his right hand, it sounds almost exactly like the demo sounds on the keyboard itself - it was amazing he he was able to intermingle those sounds to where it was perfection with a capitol P. There's not anyone other than the demo guys that I've heard that have this unique ability. I know I sure as Hell don't. I have to rely on my vocals and charm to get by in this biz, but what the Hell, that's what Sinatra did, isn't it. Plus, he had Nelson Riddle and County Bassie behind him, which far exceeds anything we could ever hope to achieve with an arranger.

Lloyd, I agree.

Gary