This is quite a powerful little program, Chas. I suspect the main reason you do not use Arranger styles is because they don't have enough "unpredictableness" (if that's a word ) and have too much repetition, especially for jazz and/or blues.

BIAB, even in its earliest versions, seems to have some sort of Artificial Intelligence and you are constantly delighted at the subtle changes that take place during (and are different for) each playback.

Actually, I'm surprised you haven't already exploited this relatively inexpensive and easy to use program...it would be awesome to play jazz organ over, and many of the Standards are already done for you...plus, you can easily transpose for practicing tunes in different keys, and the tunes can be edited to suit your own personal needs., i.e. you can thin out an arrangement so that it only has the very basics.

It certainly bears further investigation, if only for those great jazz/blues (and funk) styles.

Ian

Ian, if I listed the styles and tunes that I like most, you'd think I was schizophrenic (you may think that anyway ). That would range from Bobby 'Blue' Bland's Stormy Monday to Miles Davis' Autumn Leaves, to Willie Nelson's Always on my Mind, to Benny Gholson's I Remember Clifford, to Oscar Peterson's 'Round Midnight, to Dusty Springfield's What Are You Doing The Rest of my Life, to B.B. King's The Thrill is Gone, to Joe Cocker's I can stand a little Rain, to Sam and Dave's When Something is Wrong with my Baby, to Billie Holliday's Lover Man, to well....practically anything by Jimmy Smith and all those other great Organ groups from the 60's and 70's. Don't care for Rap/Hip Hop and hate DooWop (I'd rather listen to the Smoky Mountain Boys than Smoky Robinson and the Miracles )

As you can see, very few of these things lends itself easily to 'canned' (so to speak) arrangements. I remember the 'feel' of these songs much more than the detailed arrangements, and that is what I go for when I play them. I actually have a copy of an older version of BIAB (maybe ver. 2010 or 2011?) and I have played around with it, but it is too cumbersome for practice or rehearsal. For recording, the 'live drums' sound great but are more of a hassle to control than their midi counterparts on say, the BK7m (arranger drums are as easy to use as a drum machine and generally have just as good drum samples).

To put it bluntly, I'd rather play a track the way I want it in the first place than try to edit a generic one to get it close to what I want. The exception is drum tracks which are beyond my capabilities. I would, however, use BIAB OR Arranger tracks if I were making them for someone else (to sing over). The reason is that they would probably sound more professional and besides, the emphasis would be on the singing.

chas

I still have Biab 2012..great for adding wes Montgomery, Joe passman etc to your recording...I also have Biab 2014 (everything pak)...they revamped the interface and added some great features...

Both will convert audio to chords...great feature..2014 has Real band, real drums and it has a 76 gig library...mine is on a external hard drive..

You can take a recording from a CD, Chord wizard will detect the chords...you can use the chord progression with a style feel that you prefer....use real drums, and real instruments....you can record (play your own parts and / or add vocal backgrounds...and come up with something that is original (your touch)....Also you can market the results, you have the rights...

You will get similar results to the two Christmas songs I uploaded last week..

The total program can get pricy, but still a bargain for what you get..

What Band in a box 2014 does....nothing else can do...and you won't sound like every other PSR 950 out there, or the previous 6 models before it..

If you are into learning new songs (getting chords from audio), and than doing your own thing...2014 will win you over...the quality of real drums/instruments are very good..If midi is still your fancy, you can use your favorite VST instruments..

It is not quite as fast as using an arranger to do the job, but results are better in 2014BB...Walking bass lines work far better than the standard style play on arrangers..Real drums will shame Yamaha, and Korg, and will rival Ketron and Roland..

There is a learning curve, and that will eliminate most of the folks I am talking to

I'd find BIAB far too slow for the kind of studio work I've been doing, plus I'm too content with "live" style play to deal with the restrictions I encounter when playing over a SMF.

Maybe someday, BIAB will allow for "live" input and play of the chords and styles..one can only hope.

Ian

Thanks Fozzie,
Figured it must be coming around to that time of the year when they upgrade.
Interesting to see what they've added this time.
Hi Guys
Can't believe how it's developed over the years. Used to use it as a source to make the odd style for my keyboards as it had styles that were different to what was available on the keyboard.
Nowadays the audio tracks, (which I didn't appreciate at first, because they stopped creating the midi styles in lieu of creating the audio styles,) but now I really look forward to hearing what new audio styles they've come up with. To my ears the guitar tracks sound better than what I've got in my keyboards.
For me there's a place for both, I'm only a hobbyist, I'd be happy playing along to a backing track, just have to focus and actually get some done and loaded into my keyboard. I keep getting sidetracked with style converting.

If any of you use backing tracks, go have a listen to some of the demo's , the Jazz and country styles are great.

I think I got in on the ground floor with BIAB when it first came out years ago. I’ve upgraded with each new version and plan to order the new 2015 release. Using it for gigs on guitar for the longest, I finally switched to arrangers some time back. Solo guitar work and vocals with BIAB is fine. But, the guitar on every song, every solo, became exhausting and somewhat boring. To me, the richness of an arranger’s sound, the endless supply of lead voices for soloing, allows for a greater variety of sounds and a more interesting presentation for the gigs I play. But, I’ll play a guitar gig with BIAB on a moment’s notice, if that’s what’s called for and if it fits the situation best. I guess I could try using BIAB with my arranger. Never thought about that.

Hi,
Basically what I was referring to using biab backing tracks with my arranger, was to load the backing tracks in as mp3's.

For home use ( which is all I do)I did actually have biab midied directly to my pa3x. Ie. Biab puts out it's chord changes over midi, I had my keyboard in arranger mode, which left me free to play melody, also gave me access to the sts's on the keyboard. Hope I kept a note on my midi setup, it wAs at least a couple years ago and my memory isn't that great.
I've also had a mix of biab audio tracks and keyboard tracks. Did it thru real band sequencer. Ie I loaded my pa3x midifile into realband, can't remember if I had to put the chords in manually, then replaced just say the drum track or guitar track with a biab audio track. The chords in realband automatically generate the correct backing. Probably not necessary on a pa3x midifile, but a midifile crested from a converted style can usually do with a bit of help.

Great for me to play sax with for practice improvising nothing compares.
1. Never tires out and can just click play 50 choruses.
2. For intro and turnarounds can make the Bass vamp on the 2nd and 3rd beat. This is what real jazz players do very often.
3. Certain styles will make every chord play even 4 chords in one measure with a choice of having the chord play a tad before a beat for an anticipated jazz feeling
4. Can make many different endings.
4. play a tune with a latin style and use a swing style on the bridge.
5. Can play All The Things You Are with a latin style for the first chorus and then make it change after the first chorus into swing for as many choruses that you want to improvise on.
And this is just a drop in the bucket of what can be done. For playing a trumpet, sax any lead instrument for jazz it is the mostest for the leastest.

However, it's not for the average entertainer on this forum. If you're jazz oriented and want to improve your improvisation skills, you can have it create solos. Some are amazing. It won't have a human feel but it does wonders with the choice of notes on certain chords and real cool like rhythm for the solo notes being played, licks whatever you want to call it.

You can take this solo it creates and have it swap fours with you playing the alternate fours. You can chose to start with the first four bars or have the created solo start with the first four bars. If you don't like the solo you can have it create a different solo in seconds. You can even use a different artist. Yes you can have it do a solo like Dexter Gordon. If you don't like it you can then change it to a George Benson solo. You be surprised at the licks it will play not every note but bits and pieces here and there that remind me of Dexter Gordon solo or whatever artist I choose.

I've had it since I started back playing. Scott Lee was helpful when I started and laughed when I said I ordered BIAB. Ha ha he hasn't a clue because he does not do Jazz Improvisation as I enjoy. Not knocking on Scott. He's a more than adequate entertainer! Like I said most of the folks here will not appreciate and some won't understand the capabilities of BIAB. This is no insult to anyone. It's just the way it is.

BIAB was almost entirely responsible for my waking up a 40-year keyboard "talent" and starting to actually play again. The program, once learned to some extent, will "push" you as fast as you can move to improve your skills. I moved from arrangers (great tools, had 6) to BIAB and have migrated to solely BIAB and piano VST, mainly due to better sounds, more sounds, the flexibility one has with styles, voices, timing. And perhaps most of all I enjoy participating with a growing batch of BIAB users who appreciate the fantastic job the PGMusic gang has done to bring the program to the stage it displays today.

For me, happily playing (better) again at age 76, it has been a life-changing piece of music software.