Before reacting to the topic, please watch the whole video, its entertaining interesting and fun...

the combination of the hardware and the VIP software allows you to play and select those software instruments on your PC just like or even faster then on most hardware keyboards. Keep in mind that the guy on that video has 10.000´s of sounds on his Macbook.

If you want to add a 2nd keyboard to your arranger, this is certainly one of the options to consider.

It was announced at Namm and is available now for pre/order overhere in europe, delivery is scheduled for mid April. And where i usually only buy used gear (even my T5 was used), i took the step of pre ordering it, the 61 key including software was slightly under €600, US prices will be under $600.

This will bring a whole new world of sound to your set-up.. and make them very very accessible.. Its not a gimmick this time, its the future.. Bringing the top knotch interface of a hardware device and combining it with the worlds most flexible soundsystem...

A more comprehensive version of the new NI S series controllers (Which as far as I can determine are limited to just NI products) at a much cheaper price, so on the face of it, extremely good for both live and studio, or at least it would be if it also had a set of sliders, so it’s a 6/10 and wait for the MK2 version which hopefully will add a set of sliders. (Yes I know you can add a set of sliders separate, but that defeats the object of it)

Bill

Actually Bill, this is what the Kore should have been, this one is build for musicians, where the NI kontroll was made for non keyboard players that wanted to use a keyboard to make some music..

The NI Kontroll is more expensive withouth a screen so it requires looking at the PC screen when selecting stuff, and indeed does only support the VST apps that come with NI komplete. As said worst part of the Komplete is all that money they spend on those features that prevent people from hitting notes outside the scale and such...


I agree with you that it should have been more complete then this... however combining it with the Akai APC40 mk2 solves most of that...

In the end however they need to build a 76 or 88 keyboard which combines the advance keybed with an APC40 and an MPC renaisance... if they do that, the new true king is born. and you have your sliders and much much more...

[quote=Bachus]



Before reacting to the topic, please watch the whole video, its entertaining interesting and fun...

the combination of the hardware and the VIP software allows you to play and select those software instruments on your PC just like or even faster then on most hardware keyboards. Keep in mind that the guy on that video has 10.000´s of sounds on his Macbook.

If you want to add a 2nd keyboard to your arranger, this is certainly one of the options to consider.

It was announced at Namm and is available now for pre/order overhere in europe, delivery is scheduled for mid April. And where i usually only buy used gear (even my T5 was used), i took the step of pre ordering it, the 61 key including software was slightly under €600, US prices will be under $600.

This will bring a whole new world of sound to your set-up.. and make them very very accessible.. Its not a gimmick this time, its the future.. Bringing the top knotch interface of a hardware device and combining it with the worlds most flexible soundsystem...





Bachus, too bad you still need to have a separate computer to have access to the sounds. Why can't they make a keyboard with VSTs built right in?......and make it an arranger/workstation? I'd buy that!

A keyboard with VSTs inside, its been available for 10 years, its called the Wersi Abacus

Wersi however is building a new range of upgraded organs and soon keyboards with a huge 15" screen at a huge price, just google for wersi sonic and OAX..



The true reason that there is no real keyboard with VSTs inside is that the technollogy was not ready for this. Stabillity issues coem to mind... You dont want your keyboard crashing because of 3rd party badly programmed stuff... Instruments need top of the bill stabillity above all... And Yamaha and co just can not garantee that when there are 3rd party instruments crashing your arranger or synth..


The way akai works is that if the PC crashes, people cant blame akai...and on top of that, current top knotch VSTs have become very stable and reliable... i dont think it will take long before we see workstation that combines its hardware sounds and the vst sounds in a way we see on the akai..

Thanks, Bachus. The issue with stability makes sense.

I know about the Musebox and its bigger brother the Receptor, but they don't have keys. They should just turn them into keyboards.

Looking forward to the kind of keyboard you describe above; a "workstation that combines its hardware sounds and the vst sounds".

Muse research tests all the VSTs before making them addaptable to the receptor. But i agree with you if you say it could have been just as well a keyboard...
Keep in mind too, that for edditing the VSTs vissually you will need a PC or Mac

why VST's in the first place, ......why doesn't anyone like the sounds already in a keyboard.....who's judging anyway....
just sayin? after almost 50 yrs on stage no one has ever said anything about the sounds I use....
I don't get it? whats all the fuss?

This is a great product. Obviously Yamaha doesn't really want to lead the way and they do have all resources.In workstation world Korg is already ahead for a few years now. Kudos to Akai with this.. They should really push it forward and add computer to this in all in one product, and the rest of the competition will be far behind.

DNJ, if we think this way than why bother playing on your s950. Why not buy some old psr or I30. Audience doesn't know anyway which one is which..

I've used the KB's mentioned many times on gigs thru the years......all sound great Because I made them sound that way.....what people should be concentrating on is playing better.....because no matter what so called VSTs or whatever you use means nothing if the player doesn't have the chops...there is no magic formula in music.. & to answer why I use a 950 over the older models...is not because of sound but because of its navigational features not sounds and styles...

Offcourse we like the sound in the keyboards of today, my T5 is fracking brilliant..

But somehow VSTs are so much more flexible and have so many more options.. SA and SA2 sounds and ensemble voices is something that comes from the VST world, and i can name atleast 10 more top features only available in VSTs these days..

I will give you some examples...
-There is pianoteq, which obviously is the best most naturall piano sound created, you will not hear the difference between a top grand of 200k and pianoteq.
-There is huge and broad orchestra sounds, which you can play live and sound like a real orchestra, ensemble on stroids with 40 to 60 instruments
-I have a set of synths from arturia that just sound like the real instuments, ARP2600, minimoog, jp80, CS80, and more..
- omnisphere that lets you design any sound you want just from the ground
- and all those sounds are edditable in real time by just twisting some knobs
- i have Korg VSTs that sound like the real instruments
- drums with roundrobbin that just sound like they are plyed live with all imperfections.
In the end VSTs are like having dozens of different instruments inside a single box..

If you want to sound just like the orriginal artists then an arranger does the job very well, butIf you want to create new sounds and your own compositions or just play with sounds, then VSTs really add a lot...


I think for the needs that most people have on this forum, they will never need anything more then a T5... But then others just love moving forward and just playing with all those musicall toys.. For me its fun, and i can toy around hours with a new sound, tweaking it till it sounds just perfect and then finding a use for them...

Donny VST INS are for DAW recording and sounds are very good not great yet for stage araing are better in live performance I am getting into VST as well just purchased Cubase pro 8 and nektar p6 keybed for my studio looking to put out some real good stuff soon .

Well, that VSTs are not good for live just got changed with the Akai advanced keyboard... It functions just like any hardware synth ( not a workstation or arranger). But for those using 2 keys its the perfect thing to add on top of your arranger or workstation... With SSDs and diskstreaming, loading times of VSTs have almost dissapeared.. On top of that, if you make a setlist for your gig, everything gets preloaded..


VSTs are very much ready for using them live...

I understand what VSt's are and can do,....but I don't think it's worth my effort to start getting into using them at this point, .....but I appreciate the enthusiasm you show and wish you guys luck who use them for your musical needs...

the learning curve on Cubase pro 8 is steep but I am diving in .

4 hour class today at my house I am taking this seriously gonna get it if it kills me .

Good Luck Ron with CB....I know it's a Bear but in the end you'll be successful......lots of online tutorials also to watch..

Its obviously not for you, you are happy where you are, you dont even have a TOTL arranger, if i where you i would make sure to stay happy, that makes life a lot easier

But as allways, you fail to accept the fact that other people have differend needs and different wants.... To everyone his own.. I know what i want.. And i know what i enjoy most..

My neighbour has a new car every year, my car is 10 years old and it takes me everywhere i want... I prefer new toys to play with, and those toys happen to be electronic instruments.. And guess what, both me and my neeighbour are hapy and good friends...while he wonders why i keep that old car, and i wonder why he buys new cars every year

Bachus do you know about keyboard action? ?
How are the keys??

Bachus, I think you just made Donny's point. If it ain't broke, why try to fix it?

The primary reason I agree with him about the sounds is that despite all the tuning and tweeking, the audiences don't seem to notice. Both Donny and I, and many others on this forum, are primarily entertainers. The sounds provided by the arranger keyboard manufacturers are more than adequate for our purposes. And, like Donny, Dave, Fran, DonM, and many others, we're it out there performing every day of the week for the most part, often more than once a day. We learned how to read our audiences, we interact with them daily, we often know many of the audience members on a first name basis, and for the most part the comments we hear are not about the keyboard's sounds, though TonyM seems to be an exception to this. The vast majority of the people I encounter tell me how much they love the song selections, and how much they love my vocals.

Like you, I own an older car, and it will only be replaced when it meets it's untimely demise, which is usually when I reach 300,000 miles or more. Additionally, I have a fairly extensive background in electronics, be it quite old. I'm one of the few individuals that have been through all the instruction manuals of every keyboard I've owned, I've repaired several for others, but never one of my own, I've designed and constructed my own circuit boards, and use lots of marine electronic devices. And, yes, I can even use a sextant, but not as accurately as I would like.

I enjoy reading your posts related to new devices, and I always try to investigate them to determine if they would be beneficial to myself and other entertainers in the field. I don't believe Donny is anti gadget or device in any way, shape or form. However, I think he is being realistic about his personal needs as an entertainer. And, his needs are not that much different than any other, live music entertainer that I know, both personally and on this and other forums. Please do not take this as an affront. It's just the opinion of an old codger that has been in this business for many, many years. And, please, continue to post your findings on other new gear and gadgets - it's good information.

All the best,

Gary

Thats one of the most important things we dont know untill we play it..
Akai indicates it will have a good professionall key quallity
However they said the same about the MPK series
Which action i dont like, it is just to stiff
So far the Novation SL2 has the best keybed of all the midi keys,( fatar)


If i dont like the keyaction i will send it back, key action is very very important..

In general from the custoemr perspective you are very right about this, why would i change stuff if i am happy with it? but from a salesperspective and buiseness that perspective that does not work...

My neighbour buys that new car every year because he just wants a new model with new things like brighter lights and bigger wheels, just because it makes him happy... I buy new music stuff because it has improved quallities. Which allows me to do things differently or enjoy a new saxsound.

Do we both need the improvements, well i guess not, but do we enjoy the new stuff, yes we realy do, it gives us sattisfaction.

This is the example i described above, so asume my neighbour also plays music and has a 30 year old piano which he plays daily and enjoys very much playing..

That is in general the difference between Donny, You and me... You are happy your old keyboard and sounds and enjoy playing it. And you will not replace it untill there is a new piano with improved functionallity.. While i love to explore new whistles..

So when it comes to if its not broke dont fixt it, that works very well for me for cars, but not for musicall instruments... Because if everyone would have that same attitude we woul all still be riding that old T-ford from 1900..



The biggest problem for arrangers these days is the fact that many arranger players that used to be like me in buying new and exciting stuff while their old instruments worked perfectly well, have reached a venerable age at which they are content with the lovely instruments they have. And prefer their money on other things, which shows certainly a form of wisdom.

On top of that, the current day instruments are not interesting enough for new people to buy and step into the arranger playing.. They are either happy with their old pianos or choose different models

so what those companies out there need to do to interest you and Donny in buying new stuff again. Or make my neighbour interested in buying an arranger. Is add functionallity to them that makes all of you decide to buy the new one..

For example i would buy a new car if it only used half the gass of my current one even if all the other features where exactly the same.. You know we all switched from organs to keyboards because they where small and light, and many bought a new keyboard because it had a vocalist in it.. Hey even guitar players bought keyboards because of using it with midi files and vocalists.. But for many it took more time to realise a vocalist would be actually usefull

And thats where they are currently failing, i dont buy new cars, you dont buy new new arrangers because the features they add do not interest you yet. And the sound quallity of the old only slightly less then the newer ones... But then for you an arranger is more like a tool to get the job done...

I will allways buy, because for me who does not make a living it is more like a new toy, that i like to play with

And thats where my biggest worry comes in, if not enough people buy arrangers anymore, they might stop creating arrangers all together.. So i am sharing the new bells and whistles overhere just to see if you guys are interested in it. Like the ensemble feature on the T5 which makes you rethink how to play your old songs, its one of the best things they added to arragers since they added the vocalist. Yet not enough to convince you and Donny yet to ipgrade...

So it might be easier for Yamaha and co to add features to arrangers that pull in new customers, like my neighbour. Then it is to add features to make you upgrade...

And if they fail at both... Arrangers as we know them will dissapear.


The people still buying stuff like me will keep comtinuing to do so, so we are not very interesting for those companies, but i am actually quite sure they come here regularly to find out what might convince you and Donny to uograde your instrumenst, .. And even harder, they need to figure out what would make my neighbour buy an arranger..




You see where the dont fix it as it works very much applies to you and Donny, it does not apply to me, i just love trying new gear/toys and find ways to make them usefull, where you are hapy with your tool because it works for me..


In the end we are all different..which is a blessing..

Now back on topic, VST integration with dedicated hardware controllers..

In this case the NI Komplete Kontroll combined with NI Maschine. It shows how you can use this setup when creating your own compositions. As said, this is also a very slick setup, however, it requires a computer screen and the Kontroll works only with NI Komplete plugins.





Its a very interesting video, because it really shows how they are trying to make the interface much more tranasparent then with the bigger DAWs... its just a matter of hours to grasp most of the basic interface and then you are off and on your way.