This could be accomplished with Multipads programmed drums, snare & cymbals crashes also during style play...

Everybody who plays a arranger keyboard off course .

Impuls

My point is that there are many others ways of playing without arranger styles which has become a sort of crutch to many.
Sometimes the old way of playing before arrangers is just as good and in many ways much better as shown in the video, & more realistic to live play without all the receptions styles give.

I'm going to disagree with my learned friend, Donny. Those onboard and third party arranger styles are fantastic features that provide OMB entertainers with the fullness of an entire band, which I guess is why arranger keyboards were created to begin with. The old way is just fine, but the bass, drums, and other layered voices do so much for a song, and yet they still allow you to be creative. That's why I'm working every day of the week and nearly all the piano and organ players I know that did not switch to an arranger are sitting in the audiences and not working. That's why we need drums, Donny.

All the best,

Gary

No one said we don't need drums?.....what I mean is there are other ways of using drum machines backings, left hand bass,bass pedals, chords, RH solos, etc, etc, That said there's is still the "repetitive nature" of styles as a whole vs what Alan is doing.
For me I do it all, ...always have before & after don't matter to me I create music in many ways and sing period. A one trick Pony is boring to watch.

No one gives a crap how I do it, ....all I know they love it.

carry on

Of course styles are repetitive, but then again, so is every song that was ever written. The styles just mimic those songs so perfectly. Styles have never been a crutch - at least for me. Instead, they're a wonderful asset and that's one of the many reasons I switched from being a guitar player/entertainer to being a keyboard player/entertainer.

I, like many of us, have played other instruments. But nothing has provided me with the fulfillment of an arranger keyboard and all it's wonderful features. I loved playing the guitar, I loved playing the mandolin, and I had a ball playing a half dozen harmonicas, but the keyboard is just one of those things that makes me want to sit down, play and sing, even when lots of things around me are going to Hell. I can select a style, hit a key and instantly, I'm transformed into a song.

Now, I've never had the skill level to use bass pedals, and at this stage, I'm not about to try to learn how. Same goes for LH bass - just not interested, AND, I really don't think that if I did master LH bass that it would do anything to enhance my performances. For ME, styles are still king.

All the best,

Gary

Almost all music (especially Pop and Country) has a high degree of repetition...but, that's also what makes it interesting...that's what makes the hook.

I've always maintained that I create songs by using styles; I don't just use them to color my tunes...they're a crucial part of what I do.

Like Gary, I've never considered styles any form of a crutch...to me, they're part of the art of playing an Arranger.

I also find using styles far more flexible and spontaneous than using an SMF, but that's my preference...to each his own.

I like playing the same tune to my own choice of different arrangements, and Styles let me do that with ease.

You notice that guys who play Jazz (like Alan) are more likely to use bass pedals, as Jazz has far more variations.

Obviously the best tool for that particular job.


Ian

Some styles can work for jazzy type tunes/arrangements...and do not sound very repetitive.

This a one take recording on my Tyros4, a tad hot, so there may be a little distortion. It's the song, Somewhere Over The Rainbow.

http://www.4shared.com/music/V3OOAFx4/OverRainbow.html

Some of you have heard this before.

The style, ModJazzBallad, taken from the CVP-509 and edited very slightly, consists only of drums (and brushes) and mega Acoustic Bass and Mega Jazz Guitar.

The solo voices were SA2 Sax, and SA Jazz Clean Guitar. Nothing fancy...just chords in the Left Hand and melody in Right. I just sat down, hit "Record" and played from memory.

Ian

Talk about repetitive. Same old topics, same old endless discussions, same old back-patting, same old arguments, same old counter-arguments, same old self-congratulatory claptrap, same old desperate craving for approval. We should just rename it from Synthzone to Rehash-zone. Of course the 'wily old veterans' of the board know exactly which topics, subjects, or even phrases, will get a response, and it appears that most times that is all they are looking for and have no real interest in starting a serious MUSICAL conversation.

In all my years in music, I don't think I've ever heard a first-rate musician brag about his musical prowess or how much his audiences loved him/her. They have all, with few exceptions, been content to let others sing their praises. Pro's don't need to remind people every five minutes that they are pro's.

Arrangers, Styles, MP3's, SMF's.......they're ALL crutches. Using them doesn't necessarily mean that you 'can't play', but they ARE crutches. And we all know that there is a lot of mediocre talent out there USING these crutches to make a mediocre living playing to what are essentially captive audiences. The question is, will people dress up, go out, and pay good money to see you......or go next door to see the live band?

The dilemma here is, the Arranger keyboard was designed, built for, and marketed to, amateur HOME PLAYERS. This board, however, is essentially driven by a handful of people who are NOT home players (even if they should be). Therefore, the opinions expressed on this board by the very vocal 2% of the total membership of this forum are not necessarily the opinions of the majority (and probably should not be taken as such).

Anyhoo, been away for awhile and just thought I'd chime in.

Peace,

chas

Yes, styles can be repetitive, but they don’t have to be. There is so much you can do with a style while it’s playing.

The first thing I notice is many players just “leave it running.” They forget the meaning of “fills” or are too lazy to hit the “fill” pedal.

A favorite of mine is to put it on “synch start/synch stop. Jab away at the left hand for the first two choruses of a song and bring the style back in on the chorus (or anywhere). Or turn the style off altogether and start it somewhere in the middle of a song (Example: I Can’t Give You Anything But Love…..come in with the steady style on the “release“).

Then you can leave a “fill” running for 8 or 16 measures and end it by going into a different “variation” from the one you left.

You can use the “break” button for as many measures as you want to break up the continuity of the style.

You can stop a style anywhere and fill in a measure with a “pad:…..maybe 4 cymbal or drum hits, etc……and back to the style again

With a little creativity, and a lot of effort, styles don’t have to be boring!

Mark

All great ideas, Mark. I often use sync/stop when using one of Yamaha's (or my own edited version of) Free-Play styles. Leaving the style run gets boring rather quickly, so having these pauses/stops is probably a necessity rather than a choice.

I often take most of the parts from Ending I (except for the drums) which is usually a simple stop on a chord, and using Style Assembly, put these parts in Intro I. I leave in the Intro I's drums, removing the stick sound in the count-in, and voila! I've got a one bar break/fill stop that I can initiate a little early, and after it plays out, the style is returned to whatever Variation I was on, or decide to have it go to.

All it takes, is, as you say, a little creativity, and perhaps thinking outside the box, to add some variety to the patterns.

If you don't want to go through reprogramming Ending I parts to Intro I, often you can just hit Ending I and before it has a chance to fully finish, just press another Variation button (or Fill-in) to get back into the style.

Ian

Lovely rendition of Over the Rainbow, Ian. What's not to like about that? Well done.

Glad you finally posted that version of somewhere over the rainbow on the zone Ian . It's an excellent piece of work !

Styles are boring, no way. More like players are boring.

1-Pads
2-Four variations
3-When I push any of the fills they repeat over and over.
4-A dedicated button which turns all parts of the style except the Drums and Bass.
5-Dedicated buttons allowing you to turn off only the Bass or Drums or any other part of the Accompaniment.
6-The automatic stop and start. (Breaks)

As the style plays I feel the need to make it interesting. With all the above we can be very interesting using styles. I have been exposed to big band and 30’s, 40’s 50’s (Not very good at today’s music) long enough so that I hear what the styles needs in that part of the song.

OK, yes we do not stay on a music top without a few changing direction and whatever. Normally when I close down the forum I smile thinking of the few that try to dominate. Without these guys the forum would be a bit of a bore. I go to our form at least once a day, I like what’s going on it adds color. Boat trips, humor, weather, hidden anger, new gear, ways to do whatever, and just plain b—ll s—it.

I love it, it’s life. My unfulfilled dream was to sale a boat from New York to Florida. Gary often takes me there; how good can it get?

IMHO, John C.

Great post John.

Ian

Thanks guys. The CVP style I used is really cool...there is a similar style of the same name on the Tyros4, but it uses piano bass and drums instead of guitar bass and drums. Another variation of this type of style (without mega voices) is found on the 9000 Pro.

The double time in Variations C and D is great for breaking up a slow ballad without losing the total feel.

Ian

Ian, as a guitar player, I absolutely enjoyed your selection of inversions, and the chord rendering of what would normally be guitar sounds was fabulous.

the lead line was perfect, except for the limitations of the sample or sax programming (too much temolo-not very realistic). That, of course is not the players fault. Really nice work!

As far as style use, just don't let it be a crutch. There are options, as is shown in the video Donny posted. Excellent work.


There are also options...some high paying, to playing nursing homes.

We should all strive to improve...can't go wrong with that approach.

Thanks, again Ian. As my old music friends say....TASTY!


Russ

I all need is more cow bell.

I Don't always agree with things I read on Synth Zone but this time, I am 100% positive, that Synth Zone does need more cowbell...but only if we can also have MORE TRIANGLE.

Ian

Yeah, 'cause we already have enough SQUARES.

chas

You are only as cool as the friends you hang out with.

And I'm awesome.

You're welcome.


Ian

Thank you for the kind words, Russ...especially cool coming from an accomplished guitarist like yourself.

I love jazz guitar and listened to a lot of Wes Montgomery and Joe Pass, but also enjoyed the more recent John McLaughlin, Pat Metheny, Al Di Meola.

As far as using styles exclusively...nope...I just consider them one of the tools of the trade, although I try to make the most of them when they suit the occasion.

Gratefully,

Ian

Ian, do you play guitar – If you do at what level?

John C.

John, I used to play/practice quite a lot as a kid and teenager, until a hand injury (left hand, pinky finger), received in an altercation with another chap with a rather large knife, severely reduced my ability to play barre chords, and I focused solely on keyboard from then on. I was about 17 years old when it happened. That's why I can relate so well to our Captain Russ's injury. Up till that point, I was doing quite well, and was using an old second hand Fender nameless Esquire (actually called a "Nocaster") which I (now regretfully) sold to a collector in Newfoundland.

I know in my head, what a guitar is supposed to sound like (if that makes any sense), and I try and transfer the feel and phrasing to the keys...sometimes I'm more successful than others.

The Tyros4's SA guitars are beautifully expressive, especially the SA Jazz Clean, and I often use this sound for country tunes (with some modifications to effects etc.)...that's probably the influence of the great Jazz guitar players I listen to, but also because I'm a Country fan as well, and Chet Atkins is/was one of my heroes.

One of the guys I jam with is a very accomplished Country player (uses a Tele and Strat), and we often talk about how to set up effects and such, and again, I try to transfer these suggestions to my guitar sounds...it really helps getting advice from an actual player.

So (FINALLY!), as far as my actual guitar playing level? Probably a little better than a decent beginner, although I know where the notes are on the neck, but my perception and transfer to the keyboard, seems highly influenced by the master guitar players I listen to with a lot of interest and respect.

How about you John? I see your avatar has you holding a guitar...is that your primary instrument, with keyboard as secondary?

Ian

All I can say is I made a great living for many years playing solo piano. But right now I'm having the time of my life playing arranger keyboard. I love having the whole band right
at my fingertips. And if you are a good player you can be very creative with the tools you have.