Hi,
just wondering what extra styles are available for the KN2600& KN2400 Keyboards.
When we bought our KN7's , we were able to download custom styles (.cst's & .ast's) from previous model kn keyboards ( KN2 through to KN6's) via the kn7 website.

But , where does that leave potential KN2400 & KN2600 owners? In the back of my mind, I think I read somewhere that these 2 keyboards don't have custom memory??? ( please correct me if I'm wrong) , so even if they're capable of reading the normal kn7 styles, they wouldn't be able to use the 700 or so custom styles(.cst's) that were made available to kn7 owners for download.

Just wondering.

best wishes
Rikki

Yes, I read the same: no custom styles area.
And I think KN don't read styles directly from floppy.
So, I don't understand the way to play external styles, nor how many styles may load into the keyboard, if so.
Really, this is the great desadvantage of KN comparing it with PSR2100. PSR may load 40 or more user styles, and afterwards, may play styles from flopy.

Hi There,

As in my other postings, I have just purchased a Kn2400....

I have downloaded styles that were created for the 6,000; 6500 & 7000.....and found that my board was able to play them, but I haven't tried to customize them....that will have to wait for another day.... ....too many other things to try...

I haven't yet found any styles that have been created specifically for a 2400/2600 board....

FlutteringBy



[This message has been edited by FlutteringBy (edited 06-29-2003).]

Hi,
from what I've been lead to believe , it actually uses an SD card, the same as my kn7 does. It's far better & faster than floppies. Even though it doesn't read styles directly from a disk , the load time to the user style area via sd card is very quick.

I actually have a little cheap portable sd card reader attached to my laptop, and transferring files (styles , songs etc) from sd to my laptop ( for backup) is incredibly fast.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by tracknet:
[B]Yes, I read the same: no custom styles area.
And I think KN don't read styles directly from floppy.
So, I don't understand the way to play external styles, nor how many styles may load into the keyboard, if so.

Hello

The KN2600 has only the SD with no floppy drive, while the KN2400 has only the floppy drive and no SD.

Scott Langholff

Amazing, absolutely amazing. How one can flatly state they do not understand, (I don't understand the way to play external styles, nor how many styles may load into the keyboard) and then make a critical determination such as - (this is the great desadvantage of KN comparing it with PSR2100. PSR may load 40 or more user styles, and afterwards, may play styles from flopy). Don’t understand the way or the quantity, yet can make a determination that the KN has a great disadvantage? Blows my mind! Why? There must be an agenda of some kind. Trash and find fault with the KN and praise the PSR with no knowledge or understanding of the one? Now that kind of reasoning I cannot understand and believe I never will. Not understanding that kind of reasoning however does not hamper my opinion of why this type of statement is made on an open forum dedicated to the understanding and enjoyment of the technics keyboards. I can think of two apparent reasons but they would not contribute anything positive to this phenomenon. Maybe I should just not ask why and accept the fact that there just is. Why oh why oh why?

Grandpa Doug

Hi All!

A clarification of my statement that my kn2400 plays music styles created for the 6,000; 6500 & 7000.....

For some reason, when I first unzipped the 7000 file, it played in my board (even though the icons were different from the 6500)....but, after I changed the board back to my own settings, & then went back to the 7000 disk, I just got an error message!....however, no problem playing the styles for the 6500....

Yes Scott, you are correct....my 2400 does not have the SD, just the floppy....

I'm still learning!....

FlutteringBy

Hi,
we seem to have gotten a bit off the track heehee.
In my original posting I was trying to ask if( maybe I didn't word it too well) anyone knew, whether or not , potential new KN2600& Kn2400 owners were going to have access to the previous model kn styles. We kn7 owners had these styles made available to us on the kn7 website as .cst's and ast's which load into the custom memory of the kn7 keyboard.
Just wondering if they were available anywhere as normal kn styles which should be able to be used in the 2 new kn keyboards.

best wishes
Rikki

HI

Just talked to a Technics rep, his hasn't arrived yet but it appears the answer is no regarding the cst an ast styles as it has no custom whatever it's called.

He said the KN7000 styles would work.

Scott

[This message has been edited by Scott Langholff (edited 06-30-2003).]

Douglas

I love Technics keyboards, and I would like them more if Technics keyboards would play styles directly from floppy, and if KN2600 would have a user styles area. What's the problem?

I think it is not so difficult to understand, and I think these are not bad words in a technics forum, IMO. Why would they have to be it? Perhaps because you think that we must only refer to good things about KN keyboards?. Well, it is your opinion, not mine.

You can see in General arranger forum. In that forum, with a great majority of Yamaha users, some of them write about a disadvantage of Yamaha keyboards (comparing with KN7000) because they have not sd card (and KN7000 has it). And nobody say these are bad or inadequate words.

I think these forums are for exchange opinions. And I don't understand why you say that it is a inadequate opinion if someone say he would prefer a KN2600 with a user styles area, like Yamaha keyboards for example. Or if someone ask for how many styles may be loaded into keyboard. What is the fault?

At the end, I am sorry if my words are offensive to you or others; honestly, that was not my intention.

Cheers


[This message has been edited by tracknet (edited 07-01-2003).]

Quote by rikkisbears, the originator of this thread: “we seem to have gotten a bit off the track heehee. In my original posting I was trying to ask if( maybe I didn't word it too well) anyone knew, whether or not , potential new KN2600& Kn2400 owners were going to have access to the previous model kn styles. We kn7 owners had these styles made available to us on the kn7 website as .cst's and ast's which load into the custom memory of the kn7 keyboard. Just wondering if they were available anywhere as normal kn styles which should be able to be used in the 2 new kn keyboards.
best wishes
Rikki”.

tracknet, it seems the starter of this thread seems to think we have gotten off track as well as I do. In another of Rikki’s comments there is an attempt to explain to you the workings of the SD card. Far better and faster than floppies. You state you know nothing about the workings of the KN boards so Rikki is trying to enlighten your ignorance. Being ignorant of the technics operating system you claim to love the technics keyboard. Love the technics if it would work like the Yamaha in your estimation. If technics worked like a Yamaha they would have to take three giant steps backward into the world of dying technology. You say you love technics keyboards? How can you say that when you state to us you have no knowledge of how they work and then with great authority claim the KN’s have a great deficiency. I have a choice word for that but will not spell it out. Because you will not post on your profile the kind of instrument you play, if any, or what your interests may be I can only assume by your postings on this and the general forum that your interest is in comparing brands of keyboards and becoming an expert on the deficiencies of same.

tracknet, asking how many styles can be loaded into the keyboard is a legitimate question. Without any knowledge of (by your own admission) and then assuming none or not many can be loaded is illogical thinking. To extend that into making a determination that technics is therefore deficient is stupidity. Taking it to your ultimate deficiency by comparing it to Yamaha’s primitive floppy technology and determining it is better, without understanding or knowledge of the KN’s system, is the height of nonsense and shows where your coming from. What is your fault, you say? I’ll bet you still can’t figure it out!

tracknet, Quote: “sorry that was not my intention”. What was your intention? Quote: “To tell us you don't understand the way to play external styles, nor how many styles may load into the keyboard”? You seem to know that KN’s don’t play styles directly from a floppy. At least you know something. In light of this one fact of knowledge what seems to be your intention? To tell us because of this one fact our keyboard’s are thus deficient? Or maybe technics is second rate because they don’t follow the Yamaha way of doing things. Could be you enjoy and work for consumer reports and are in the business of product comparison and evaluation. However it seems they would require someone with a little understanding of the product they are evaluating. Never the less, I’m also sorry if my words are offensive to you but when your intent is to tell us our KN’s are inferior to Yamaha’s floppy’s compared to the KN’s SD cards, with no knowledge or understanding (according to your words), that is pure rubbish. Sorry! Rubbish is rubbish. Cow paddies are cow paddies. Evaluating something without understanding is evaluating something without understanding. Stupidity is still stupidity no matter what is the intention. If you have played and understood the operating system of both Yamaha and Technics and then choose the Yamaha floppy system in favor of the SD system that would be a genuine opinion of preference and you would have every right to express yourself. No fault except for the fact that it has nothing to do with the question at hand. However if you give an opinion without any understanding of the product, as you state, your opinion now becomes an uninformed opinion of preference with no credence. A statement of pure bias, sticking out like a sore thumb. As the old saying goes: Put your brain in gear before you turn on your tongue. As Jimmy (James) once said, the tongue seems hard to control. Then again I remember somebody of importance once said, remove the board out of your own eye before you try to remove the splinter out of someone else’s. Whoops! Think it’s time for me to shut up.

Grandpa Doug

Well, Douglas Dean, I think you are growing flat a nonsense globe.

I am not a stupid man, nor a yamaha agent or something like this, as you seem to think. I know perfectly SD CARD technology is far better than old floppies. And, from my experience and knowing, I think KN (and Roland) keyboards are, in a lot of aspects, far better than Yamahas. So, I don't know where does it comes from your intriguing suspects about me or my hidden intentions. It is only your mind.

I have a Roland kb, played some KN, Yamaha and Roland keyboards. Perhaps this year I will buy a new one, probably KN (or a new Roland if there is one this year, I will see), but not Yamaha (although Yamaha plays styles directly from floppy), I played Yamahas and don't like, listen Douglas, I don't like Yamahas, ok?

And so, I like to know more and compare. What a sin!! I read some forum writings referring no user area in kn2600/2400, and someone said me that KNs do not play styles directly from flopy or sd card. Because of that, I asked for a specific question about modern KNs, that is, managing external styles. And gave an opinion, a simple personal opinion: There is an advantage if an arranger keyboard may play external styles directly, from floppy or sd card, without to have loading them before.

You put in my mouth words I never said. You said my intention was “To tell you your keyboard’s are thus deficient, or maybe technics is second rate because they don’t follow the Yamaha way of doing things”. Nobody spoke about “deficiency”, only you. I never “claim with great authority the KN’s have a great deficiency” as you say. You said my intent was“to tell us our KN’s are inferior to Yamaha’s floppy’s compared to the KN’s SD cards” It is not true, of course, nobody compare floppys with sd cards; afterwards KN2400 have not sd card, only floppy, and someone said that time for loading a style from KN2400 floppy is 15 sec. I only said KNs have a disadvantage in the specific aspect to not playing styles directly from floppy (or sd card). And this statement has been said also to me for a friend and KN player. Technics are better than Yamaha in much other areas. What’ s the problem? Nobody compare Technics and Yamaha at all, only at a specific aspect. Nobody said Technics is deficient: to tell me stupid because to have said something I haven’t said is a stupidity so.

Your words, and your words “that will not spell it out” are a few offensive, honestly. I gave an opinion (perhaps wrong) about an aspect of a keyboard; you give an aggresive opinion, and not only about another opinion, but about a person, me. Great difference! Really, it is you wich seem to be a Technics agent, and not me a Yamaha or other agent. You (or Technics and you, it seems to be the same) feel be attacked by me, and I never had that intention at all. Why do you feel yourself attacked? That would be a good question.

Best wishes




[This message has been edited by tracknet (edited 07-01-2003).]

Hi Guys,
PLEASE , I didn't mean to start an argument.
I think there's a bit of confusion about Custom Styles and what I tried to say. (Hopefully I don't make it worse.)

There are 2 styles areas in the KN7.

The Custom Style area where you can load up to 20 of the individual .cst files ( styles)
(or as a group of up to 20 of these which called is .ast file) This is the styles area that the kn26&kn24 DOESN'T have.
(The kn custom style feature is similar to the flash style feature on a psr.

The other styles area is the composer style area. This is where you load and play your normal kn styles. In this area you can create & save new styles, edit existing styles etc. Load 3rd party styles. You can have up to 3 styles loaded ready for play in this area.
This is the area the KN7,KN2600 Kn2400 uses for external styles.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rikkisbears:
[B]Hi,
just wondering what extra styles are available for the KN2600& KN2400 Keyboards.
When we bought our KN7's , we were able to download custom styles (.cst's & .ast's) from previous model kn keyboards ( KN2 through to KN6's) via the kn7 website.

OK, OK tracknet I’m sorry and peace between us. Guess I got a little carried away. Think I get a little, maybe a lot, touchy on this subject because of past encounters on this subject of which and why my love, the KN keyboard, has a great disadvantage over the PSR Yamaha keyboards. Sorry I used the word deficiency instead of disadvantage. You are quite right. Guess I thought when something was at a disadvantage it was because of some deficiency in the product. Sorry.

The subject matter of rikkisbears had nothing to do with the comparing of other makes of keyboards or their methods but rather wondering what extra styles are available for the KN2600& KN2400 Keyboards and if and how they could handle them seeing the new boards have no custom styles area. You confirmed this from what you read and wondered also. Fine. OK. I suppose when you got into the area of comparing Yamaha keyboards and judging the KN as having a great disadvantage, (sorry about saying deficiency), that is where we got off subject and got feathers flying. Please accept my apologies and I now understand your position better. Thanks for expressing it more clearly. Awhile back there was a lot of negative talk about the KN keyboards and derogatory biased comments on this forum. This had a very negative effect on this Technics discussion forum as it did also on another technics forum. That forum is now closed. Hope it does not happen here. Because of this, as you all know, I am a little touchy on certain things. Sorry about that but that is the way old Grandpa is.

With the air cleared to some point, I have a possible solution to the original query of Rikki and you. All the styles are available in composer form or can be easily converted. If anyone does not have them I am sure there are more than one on this forum that will furnish them just for the asking. Such is this forum and the members thereof. If the new KN’s do not have a composer and a means to save these styles then I also will concede the KN’s are at a great disadvantage. (deficiency).

Grandpa Dougs final word.

P.S. tracknet, sorry about the misunderstanding and hope we will understand each other better in the future. I admire a man that will stand his ground and state his case with conviction. Always leads to better respect and friendship.

Ok, Douglas, peace between us.

I understand your feeling. There is a social presure to buy yamahas. A lot of store men say "better yamaha" (I have listened it), perhaps because a lot of store men don't have Tecnics at their store...? Why? I don't know.

When I asked for Technics, some honest but not good salesmen said to me: "Technics? I don't know Technics, sorry. I have only Yamahas".

And some not honest nor good salesmen said: "Oh, no, don't buy Technics; they aren't as good as Yamahas... (and I haven't Technics at my store, too)"

Only a honest and good salesman would say: "Technics? Yes, I have Technics. I will explain you the similarities and differences, pros and cons, of different arrangers. But you must play them, and decide yourself. I help you to decide only if you want".

Best wishes

Thanks

Grandpa Doug

Good work, gentleman.
That's the way disagreements are solved in an mature way.
Cees

Hi Douglas,

Last month I purchased a Kn 2400,(my 4th Technics board) & yes, it does have a composer feature....

I have been very interested in this thread of available styles for the 2400 as I have not been able to find very much info on this board...being new to this forum I would appreciate if you would please explain how I would go about collecting some extra styles...

I have downloaded some demo styles (just to see what models were compatible with my board) & it seems that styles for the 6000 & 6500 will play just fine....

Many Thanks,
FlutteringBy

Hi,
me again.
The reason I brought the subject up, is the fact that I'm an avid style collector. One of the main reasons that helped me to decide on the kn7 instead of other competion, is the fact that Tecnnics had made their earlier styles available to KN7 owners.

I've had kn's from the early kn800 all the way thru to the kn5000. I'd always saved the internal styles before replacing for the newer model. Back in 1998 I sold my kn5 and all my other gear, as I'd decided I'd give up my music hobby. ( I took up making teddy bears, much to my husbands delight, less strain on the bank book hee hee)
I stored all my style disks safely, just in case I decided to take music up again.
Well a couple of years ago, I decided to get another keyboard. To my horror, I discovered that most of my beloved style disks, had been corrupted during storage.

Well, I ended up getting a Yamaha instead of a KN6500 . I decided on the psr mainly because of the free style availability on an internet group

Last year new keyboards were due out again. I was either going to replace my psr or MAYBE check out the new kn. The desicion was made for me when I discovered I could get all my wonderful old styles back via the kn7 website.

Even though my technic/yamaha dealer, is an avid technics fan, he wasn't even aware or understood of all the kn7's wonderful features ie sd card functions, sd audio functions.
I didn't realize how great these features were till after I bought the kn7.
It was actually the sweetener of all the free styles that made me go for the kn again.

As for the KN styles from the kn7 website. Is it actually okay to share them??? I'm currently in the process of converting the .cst's into composer styles for my own purposes, but, I wasn't sure if we were allowed to share, and how to acually go about it. I didn't want to get myself into trouble.

best wishes
Rikki

I have not been able to find very much info on this board...being new to this forum I would appreciate if you would please explain how I would go about collecting some extra styles...


I have heard a great deal about getting styles. I realize that some are new to keyboard, and there are many who have collected hundreds of styles. I have not seen much on how to edit the exsisting style, or possibly creating a new one.

There many areas that can not be created without special talent, but to learn how to edit or adjust a small section of the style is not that difficult.

My vote is to start sharing the basics about style editing on this forum. Creating can be lot's of fun, and it is you that you listen to when you're done. Just a thought.

How blessed we are to be able to play, share and create music.

Wishing everybody has a great day, John C.

To the new board style seekers,

Technote has all kinds of styles for your keyboard for sale. I don’t know if KN7000 styles are compatible with your boards. However there are many styles that will work. There are also many many styles that have been converted from all the other makes of keyboards that are available from many sources just for the asking. As far as me personably I have very few styles, maybe a dozen, that I use once in a while that are not native to my KN7000. I have had all of the technics keyboards to date plus another make that I must say never turned me on after I bought it. A waste of money, but live and learn. I suppose if I never was spoiled by the KN’s I would have thought they were excellent. Kind of like owning a Mercedes and then buying a Chevy. Oh well! I will say that at a period of my life I did have many many styles. I had disks full of them. I had so many disks of styles that I bought a hard disk for my KN5000 to get things under control and organized. Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of styles. Hundreds and hundreds of bucks. Man, I had a collection. After time went on and many many hours of work organizing, guess what? I found I hardly ever used them on jobs or playing at home. I finally realized most of the on board styles were far superior to the rest if I just took a little time to match the style to the song. I also found that by altering the existing on board style a little, was far better than the others. Muting a few things, changing volumes of some parts, maybe a drum set, an instrument choice, things like that. I then would save these changes, give them a name and save them in a section of the hard disk. I then note the rhythm style or styles, the tempo or some other pertinent info on the music and everything was fast and cool. Now everything runs clean and lean. Now with the advent of the SD card everything is fast, cool and smooth. No seven hundred dollars for a hard drive. When the new boards come out down the road, wow! Take my little SD card, boogie over to the 8000, slip it in the ity-bity silver slot and away we go. Gramps is cooking again. Funny. When I got the seven and first played it at one of the restaurants I regularly play, what were the remarks? Wow, new keyboard? Looks great. OR. You been takin lessens? Never heard you sound so good! OR. One guy said, for a minute I thought Lenny Dee was here. No, I said, just some of the new organ stuff on here. Anyway thanks for the five and thanks for coming. You bet, I’ll be back. See ya. Nice feeling. Kind of makes the three G’s seem worthwhile.

Anyway, collect to your hearts content, kind of fun for awhile. I did! But it’s hard to beat what ya got. Sorry, I got rid of all those things and glad I did but had fun with the experience.

Grandpa Doug

Hi John,
I'm not sure if I read correctly, but just in case you're not aware, technics have a website where you can download their earlier styles, but these will only work on a KN7000 http://www.technicskn7000.com/home.asp

As for creating & editing styles, the kn7 has some wonderful features. A great one to look at is easy composer. What it does is mix & match internal style parts to create new styles. All you do is scroll through & listen how the different parts from differing styles sound together. Then create a style out of it. It's a very simple process.
I haven't tried it on my kn7, but I used to use it on the odd occasion on my kn5 when I couldn't find a suitable style. From memory I think it only does the variations though, you'd have to use fills and intro's from existing styles or create your own.

I think it would be a great idea to share style creation tips, as the kn's have a great style creation facilities.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bruno123:
[B]I have not been able to find very much info on this board...being new to this forum I would appreciate if you would please explain how I would go about collecting some extra styles...


I have not seen much on how to edit the exsisting style, or possibly creating a new one.

There many areas that can not be created without special talent, but to learn how to edit or adjust a small section of the style is not that difficult.

My vote is to start sharing the basics about style editing on this forum. Creating can be lot's of fun, and it is you that you listen to when you're done. Just a thought.

Wishing everybody has a great day, John C

Well the question still has not been answered for me. How many user styles can be stored for immediate USE in the 2400/2600?
Maybe FlutteringBy can enlighten me. He has loaded some user styles. From where are they played? From disk, user memory? How many memory sports/slots are there? Just curious?
Anyone know if there are Technics dealers in Toronto, Ontario, Canada? I filled out Technics form to find out, but I didn't find an email address.
Starkeeper

Hi Starkeeper,

Yes, I have loaded some styles onto my 2400 board....initially I play them from disk, make any changes, save them to a panel memory & then I can play from there....or, if they are a style that I won't use very often, I'll just leave it on disk & play from there.....as usual, there isn't just one way to do things & that's what makes it so difficult to explain things....

The 2400 has 3 banks of 8 panel memories, so I have 24 panel memories with instant access....

Another point that should be mentioned, is that both the 2400 & the 2600 have a usb port, so you could easily hook up a laptop for additional memory space.....

Hope this helps,
FlutteringBy

[QUOTE]Originally posted by FlutteringBy:


initially I play them from disk, make any changes, save them to a panel memory & then I can play from there....explain things....

I can use some clarification here. Are saying you can play the style direct from the disk without loading it into the keyboard? On every keyboard from the KN1000 to the KN7000, this was not possible. Is the KN2400 offering something new?

Also, saving the style in the panel memory is something I do not understand. This was never possible before. The panel memory stored many things, but never a style. It can recall a style from an area in the keyboard, but the style itself is not stored. Again, is the KN2400 offering someting new?

Thank you, John C.

John C,

NO and NO to both of your inquiries. These new keyboards are only a cheeper version of the top of the line technics. The quality of construction is still very good as well as quality of the styles and sounds. Just some of the features have been left out to reduce the cost. The amp and speakers are not as powerful and full bodied as the 7000 but still very good. A cost factor then again. The custom area for the storage of 20 styles or rhythms other than the factory ones has been eliminated. Another cost factor. However the 24 can store all of these on a floppy as they always were able to do to be loaded into the composer at will. The 2600 however has the new SD card technology same as the 7000 to store all of these things for instant recall. Great, great improvement over the hard disk and floppy disk and at no extra cost to us. Wonderful! I would suspect this might eliminate the need for the customs storage area altogether in the future new keyboards. The styles stored in the customs section when recalled are treated the same as the standard inboard resident styles and rhythms. When using the MSA (music style arranger) there are four variations that will also trigger four different sets of voicings along with progressively enhanced variation of the style. When recalling these from the SD card the voicings are loaded into the first four panel memories instead of the four variation buttons. However the variation buttons can be told to trigger one of the first four panel memory buttons thereby no difference in operation. There also is an advantage to this method. The panel memory has eight slots for voiceings instead of only four. So in essence, the 24, (the cheapest) has the older floppy technology, the 26 (middle line of cost) has the SD card and no floppy but rather USB or card reader through computer and the top of line 7000 has everything, even built in dust cover. Hope this might be of some help. If not we will try again.

Grandpa Doug

Douglas Dean,
I think I'm getting it. Don't want to post on two threads, so I'll post in the other thread.
Starkeeper