I'm not talking about straight folk, but songs like Les McCann' "Compared to What", Marvin Gaye's "What's Going On", Stevie's "Living for the City" and others.


Do you play these or similar songs? Are they appropriate on a general entertainment gig?

I play them, enjoy them and support the messages presented.

What about you?


Russ

No. And, for several reasons, the most important being that neither are good dance tunes. No one is going to hear those songs and immediately jump up on the dance floor. Even if you are performing in a restaurant, the same rules apply. Many years ago Donny Pesce said to me "If you can't dance to it, don't play it." He was right on the money. I put them in the same category as a lot of old Peter, Paul and Mary protest songs, many of which were imported from the US Civil War era, but most folks don't know that. That said, I have played songs that would have been good dancing tunes, and no one moved out of their seats. It was if I wasn't playing or singing. Don Mason explained it best. "They probably didn't recognize the song." He was right - no one had heard of the song, they didn't recognize any part of it, so it did nothing for them.

I did a private party last month and someone requested My Heart Will Go On. I know the song, had a good style picked out for it, fired up and as soon as I hit the intro using a flute for the right hand voice, BOOM! They were on the dance floor with the ladies - it was as if someone threw a switch. Everyone recognized that song as soon as I played the intro. Same holds true for Old Time Rock & Roll - everyone knows that piano intro and even if they don't get up and dance, they'll be there singing the song at their tables.

Works for me,

Gary

Listeners may not know what they like, but, they like what they know.

Ian

I love protest songs. And I do play it sometimes, not so much for the audience but mostly for my own satisfaction.

Great tunes, all. But of the three songs Russ listed, there's only Marvin Gaye's that's readily playable on an arranger. Stevie Wonder's and Les McCann's have those time signature changes that, without a bunch of editing, would be impossible - especially that 'interlude' in Living For the City.

Thanks for the reminder of the McCann tune, Russ. I haven't given that a listen for many years.

Same here. For those who may not be familiar with Les, check out THIS version of 'Compared to What' (especially the LYRICS) and notice how relevant they are today - 45 years later. Listen to this version (recorded live) -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qNJfVXxrQU



For another of Les McCann's classics that probably COULD be played on an arranger and might go over well even with a non-jazz crowd, try 'With these hands' - this version.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hNSSb6OdYg

chas

One of my favorites...

Is it a patriotic song? Is it a protest song? Is it both?

I do Okie from Muskogee. Does that count?
And I DID protest when my first ex-wife wanted to come back.

These were some more of my favorites growing up..I cant say I would play them on stage but they definitely have big meaning in my book.

I do Chuck Berry's "No Particular Place To Go" where he protests seat belts.

I do Good Hearted Woman, where a lady protests that her husband was always out cheating on her at parties and nite clubs.

Gary

Little bit of Bosnian humor, but also these guys are very political in their songs, English and Bosnian.And the way they sing it is all on purpose .Very rebellious.
https://youtu.be/0a5BJxrarL0

I guess the next question is, have you ever tried to make a political/social statement with your music?

The bigger issue is, do we just play what people want to hear or try to play things that enlighten and educate?

That probably comes down to the entertainer vs musician vs activist issue.

R.

Why would I, or anyone else, for that matter? When I perform in front of an audience, any audience, they didn't come to hear me sing or talk about politics or societal woes. In fact, they came for just the opposite - they came to hear the songs they love to hear and dance to, they came to get away from the day to day humdrum, they came to forget about the problems of the world as we know it, they came to have fun.

I came to entertain them, not educate them, or enlighten them, based upon MY views. That's not what I'm there for and not what I'm being paid to do. Anyone that thinks otherwise should, IMO, find another avenue to portray THEIR PERSONAL beliefs. If I were the owner of a nite club, restaurant, bar, assisted living center, retirement community, etc..., and hired a musical entertainer that decided that he or she was going to do that, I would fire them on the spot!

If YOU want to be an activist, DO IT! But, don't screw with show biz and use that as YOUR platform to convey YOUR BELIEFS to the masses. Do it right - run for political office, institute legislation, get that legislation passed by the masses (the voters), and you can sing your heart out from the political platform, polling locations, and any other such location.

The stages of the world are there for creative artists to display their talent and artistry - not political activism or to make a political statement. Sorry Russ, but this is one of those things that I feel deeply about and this topic should quickly be moved to THE BAR!

Gary

Can't agree with that. What about John Lennon, Joan Baez, Harry Belafonte, Bob Dylan, Richie Havens, Marvin Gaye, James Brown, etc. I could go on and on and I haven't even started in the acting and theatre world. And we're not just talking about the 60's, 70's, and 80's; the entertainment world has always had a history of social activism (bands were integrated long before schools).

I'm not suggesting that NH's and similar venues are the proper places for protest fare, but saying that politcal/social activism has no place in music and entertainment is kind of a stretch for me. I'm also sorry to see that it makes some people so uncomfortable that their first instinct is to 'move it to the Bar' - I guess so they don't have to see or be exposed to it. Maybe it DOES belong there but why is that always our first thought. JMO.

chas (a lifelong musician/social & polital activist)

What about all the really BIG artists from the music field as well as many other creative venues who actively promote causes
thru performance?

There is a small contingent of people in the public eye who think that it is their responsibility to educate as well as entertain.

George Carlin...Marvin Gaye...Stevie Wonder...Wynton Marcellus...Brad Pitt...the list is long and impressive.

I believe there is a place for audience education and for advocacy. And I believe it is my responsibility.


Russ

....and on the Right we have Ted Nugent......I understand he's currently lobbying for carry permits for toddlers and the visually impaired.

chas

How about Hanoi Jane? Just gives you that warm, fuzzy feeling, doesn't it!

C'mon guys, climb on that soap box and preach that crap to the other activist - this old man ain't gonna buy it.

What about John Lennon, Joan Baez, Harry Belafonte, Bob Dylan, Richie Havens, Marvin Gaye, James Brown? If it were not for their musical talents and audience acceptance of those talents, they wouldn't have a pot to ....

I never really thought of Harry Belafonte as an activist, either. Met him in Baltimore, nice guy, we talked about music - nothing else.

Taking it to the bar wasn't my first thought about this thread. My first thought is what the Hell does this topic have to do with playing an arranger keyboard? My next thought was, "What a BS topic to start on an arranger keyboard forum."

Now, I'm not trying to be an elitist, or anything of the sort. If Chas and others want to stand upon a soap box in a public square and preach to the masses that are willing to listen, knock yourselves out - it's your right as a US citizen. If you really think that will change something, go for it, especially if it will make things better for everyone - and I do mean everyone. Or, as I suggested above, run for political office, get a bunch of folks to fork over some big bucks to get you into the office of your choosing, and put forth the effort to get legislation in place that will make a meaningful difference for EVERYONE - not just some special interest group with their hands out, palms facing up. I'm all for it.

I paid my dues in this light, got some legislation passed that I thought would benefit everyone, spent $20,000 of my own money in just expenses to travel and testify in front of the state legislature and US congress, US Fish & Wildlife Service, Corps of Engineers and EPA. I would never have considered standing on stage while providing entertainment to an audience and begin preaching about the horrors of war, crime in the cities, etc... - it's NOT what I was paid to do.

Yeah, Joan Baez did this with her songs about the horrors of war, but anyone that has been shot at, and lost shipmates, which I have, already knows the horrors of war. I sure as Hell didn't need Joan Baez, or any other singer or Hollywood actor/actress who has never been anywhere near a war zone, to preach it to me in song, or any other format. Every vet I know personally, many of which have been dismembered by war wounds, would go back and do the same thing tomorrow.

I was lucky. The bullets intended to take my life missed their mark, but not by much. I did lose my lungs to my US Naval service aboard ship, and the asbestosis I contracted from that service will soon take my life, unless something else gets me first. I wonder how much time any of those individuals listed above spent in service to their country? I'm guessing that none of them would be pretty close to correct.

Chas, if I recall, didn't you retire from a career in the US Navy? Would you have joined, attended the Naval Academy, became an officer, or any of those things that helped shape your life had you followed the advice of any of those people you cited? In that time that you served, don't you believe that your service to our country had a positive impact on everyone? The answer is a loud YES! And, in that service to your country, you have become a very positive role model to a large number of people that you have come in contact with over those many decades. How positive of a role model was Hanoi Jane? How many GIs died because of her?

Nuff said,

Gary

Gary, I'm not going to pursue this because I agree that it probably DOES belong in The Bar. However, there have been numerous non-Arranger topics (many started by YOU) that have been introduced here in this forum and met with absolutely no negativity at all; why?

Since you're probably the only social conservative atheist I know, if and when we ever meet, I won't know whether to give you a hug or put on a Kevlar vest (I think I'll do both).

I don't see myself as a role model for anyone but I am VERY proud of two young ladies from INNER CITY Philadelphia that I sponsored in aviation camp and mentored when they were 14 and 15, who went on to become Captains at a regional airline and will most certainly get hired by one of the majors in time.

I don't dwell on my time in the military (10 years, not a career) but since I left, I have been involved in a number of charitable organizations, most notably, Habitat for Humanity. Getting too old for the long trips anymore so I devote most of my time to local Veteran's organization and the Democratic Party (such as it is, in this neck of the woods).

As far as these 'activist' musicians and entertainers not being anywhere near a war zone, I don't feel that is necessary to take a stand for or against something you believe in. It could be that they may be far more effective for their causes by taking advantage of their bully pulpits.

JMO.

chas

Hugs are always good, Chas.

Gary

WOW! Gary is right. Let's forget this one. Excuse me for trying to bring a little bit of social consciousness to our part of the music business.

OF COURSE YOU CAN PLAY MEANINGFUL MUSIC THAT AFFECTS LIVES ON AN ARRANGER....harmonica....whatever!

Of all people here. I would have thought that Gary would be more aware of the social and strong media driven impact of entertainers and other celebrities. Roosevelt was the first president to recruit media people to influence/contribute to national P/R efforts enforcing the war effort. Now, the use of musicians and celebrities is at the core of many P/R efforts. Outside organizations and the celebrities themselves leverage
their appeal and recognition/believability factor to affect awareness and change. Celebrity endorsements are BIG.

What about the USO? What about people who work for/play in Philharmonic orchestras? What about the National Endowment for the Arts? Are these and similar efforts to educate the public about music just wasted efforts? I DON'T THINK SO! Even on a local level, recognition and popularity can be leveraged to do good. I donate the proceeds from one gig a week to my Nursing Home Reform group. I play and speak once a month at social clubs to promote nursing home reform. I have a guitar program for disadvantaged kids that introduces music to 40 kids a semester. Recently, I have been talking to the principles about involvement in the Les McCann School for the Arts. I am a feature in Philharmonic "tributes" designed to introduce/educate the public about certain aspects of music and or historic players who contributed to the art form and entertained the world. In EVERY CASE, I'm leveraging my "recognition factor".

Let's get back on track. "Man, I Killed EM at my nursing home gig last night."

NOT!


Russ

Excuse me for getting a little hot. This is a really important and very personal topic to me. I'll either use the bar for future rants or just not bother.

Russ, problem is most of us are not celebrities. We are paid to play dance or listening music. Our employers might appreciate our political statements, or they might be on the other side of the fence and NOT appreciate them.
A lot of us do perform at functions where "protest" songs are appropriate, such as certain charities, but don't publicize these things. When you go overseas to play for people who consider you so far beneath them that they don't speak to you, do you play "God Bless The USA"? Probably not, since you came back with all your body parts.
If someone holds a rally against Planned Parenthood and needs music, I'll be there! There are other causes that interest me, but they may not be the same causes of the people in a general audience, and those are the people that pay my bills!
If Donald Trump needs me I'm available, but he can afford to pay. I'll bet THAT goes over well with some of my Democrat friends!!
Chas, if you hired me for a house party, would you like me to play songs mocking our President? Point is, it's a very sticky situation, and I'll just play songs you already know the words to and that have a recognizable chord structure!
I don't think this topic is inappropriate. It's another facet related to what we do.
I love you all!

Ah, the well-reasoned mind of my good and wise friend Don.

Thanks for putting things in prospective, buddy.


Russ

Let's face it - this is SUPPOSED to be a General Arranger Keyboard forum, but it is really a 'chat room' used primarily - but certainly NOT EXCLUSIVELY - by arranger keyboard players ... we can discuss ANYTHING here as long as we do not take it to a personal level ...
Everybody has an opinion, and whether it is a good one or not depends on each person's point of view ...

If someone is being paid to perform 'danceable' music, then that is what they should do ... if someone is playing 'listening' or 'background' music, I have no problem with them performing "protest" songs ...

Also, I disagree with Gary saying that even in a restaurant setting ALL music should be danceable ... if I am playing for 'listening' I can be very flexible with what I play and how I play it - often changing tempo or styles, or using just a piano voice ... As long as the clientele and the owner/manager are happy, I'm happy ...

When we perform, the audience seems to enjoy Long Time Gone and For What It's Worth . Brings back a lot of protest memories, back in the days when protesting was in vogue.

Duane

Duane, I do certain songs that were protest songs "back in the day" but now are more like pleasant memories. I can get by doing these and certain others.
Where Have All The Flowers Gone...Blowin in the Wind. . .Fortunate Son. . .Changes Comin' On (Alabama). . .If I Had A Hammer. . .This Land is Your Land. . .
Funny thing, I don't do them because they are protest songs, I do them because they are good songs, and it does so happen I believe the messages they tell, or I wouldn't do them at all. I see people of all races and political beliefs singing along. They know the songs and they know the words, even though they may not be thinking about the meanings.
It's all good!
Thanks for introducing this Russ. But it's awfully early in the morning to be THINKING.

Guess I must have led a sheltered life - I never protested anything that I can recall. In fact, I was always pretty damned thankful for what I had. But, I'm pretty old and don't recall near as much as I used to, which is probably a good thing.

All the best,

Gary