Gunnar and I have had the following 'discussion' on his web site re
KN2400 and KN2600 compatibility but haven't come to any satisfactory conclusion - can anybody advise?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am pretty sure that the KN2600 with its SD Card is compatible with the KN7000; but what about its junior sister the KN2400 with its floppy disk..what is that compatible with does anybody know?
In other words which other model´s style files can it use?


GJ62.97.195.131
Re: KN2400 and KN2600 compatibility Fri Mar 12 05:59:16

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Roger

I think it´s the same compability regarding filetypes, and I think it can read all files that
KN7000 can.
But to be more sure, just ask at SZ too.
Cheers
GJ

answered in
http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum25/HTML/002330.html

Thanks Alec
Oh for your search skills...
Cheers
Roger M

Hi Roger,

It's like the PR54, it plays everything but you can not go the other way. KN2600,KN2400 and PR54 recorded songs will not play on KN7000 without conversion. I had written I program that converts EZ-Recorded Songs for the 54 so they would play on the KN7K but I found if I edit the song or add parts the conversion doesn't work.

Now that this seems to be the end of the line I had been hoping someone with more knowledge than I about the Technics Format would write a converter for these 3 instruments but I doubt it will happen.

Best Wishes
Heather

Heather,

You stated "KN2600,KN2400 and PR54 recorded songs will not play on KN7000 without conversion.

I believe your are right about the PR54 (I no little about the PR Series), but the KN7000 will play ALL KN Series keyboard songs, including the KN2400 and KN2600. In fact, it works the other way also, the KN2400 and KN2600, will play KN7000 songs. After all, they are related.

Regards,
Larry Hawk



------------------
Larry Hawk
Technics For All

Hiya Heather
Good to hear from you...
Larry's right regarding the KN series but I thought you were nearly there with your conversion kit to and from PR to KN...hey don't give up now, let's keep experimenting.
I think there's probably a lot of PR owners out there that would really thank you.
Rog
p.s. shame you can't get over to San Jose I'm really looking forward to meeting everybody.

Hi Roger.

GJ

the 7k will not load 2600 and 2400 saves without first editing the hex codes from LKGD to J KD.

Hi Alec
I guess that's one for Heather to get her teeth into....strange though isn't it that the KN7000 files work downwards numerically to the KN2400 and 2600 but not up the other way...hey hey.
At the risk of going off in a totally new direction - and you can opt out if you want to - what, laymen's terms are Hex Codes and how do you get to them?
Rog

the raw digital code of everything that moves around inside your pc down to the representation of the letters on this page. You get to them with a hex editor of which there are hundreds available on the net, but not recommended unless you know what you're doing since a mistake of one bit could mean everything grinds to a halt.

There is nothing new about the loading arrangements. The KN1500 which came after the KN3000 could load 3000 files but the 3000 could not load 1500 files without modification, and every generation has been similar. I've been been digitally editing the presets from other non-loading machines to use on mine since the days of the KN800

Hex codes can be really colourfull as well:




GJ

Are you saying that the 7000 will play all KN series keyboard songs, other than the 2400, and 2600?

I just assumed, since we can save songs on the 2000, 3000, 5000, and 6000,etc. and play them on the 7000, that this would also apply to the 2400 and 2600.

Larry

the KN7000 will load normal data from the KN2000, 3000, 5000, 1600, 1400, 6000 and 6500 (bar 5000 custom etc). The rest will need one form or another of special treatment, which is how I made the new 2600 presets available for KN7000 owners on www.technicskn7000.com

I'm a little stunned that the 7000 cannot play songs recorded and saved on the 2400, or 2600. Especially since all 3 are related

The 7000 can play all of the above mentioned KN Boards, just not the newest. Is that the reason?...because the 2400 and 2600 is newer than the 7000, thus the technology is more advanced in the 2400 and 2600?

Larry

well, as I've already explained since the situation was precisely the same for the top keyboards before the KN7000, what you see is the entirely the norm and to be expected if you have a knowledge of the history of the keyboards.

I expected by now in the year 2004, that Technics would have corrected that odd situation when they designed the 2400 and 2600

If you release a product a year after another product it will have a new feature or two - nothing to do with more technologically advanced which would be a rather wild exaggeration, just a different balance of features to target a different market, and thus not particularly odd or out of the ordinary at all. If you load a file from the new into the previous there will be the occasion where you get anomalies because of different samples or different controllers. So all you will achieve is get some peculiarly unrealistic sounds and sub-standard styles with bits missing that the designer did not intend, and could not envisage due to the inability to see into the future, which is exactly the case on some 2600 styles loaded straight into the 7000 just as in previous generations of keyboard the situation has been precisely the same. In the case of the styles on www.technicskn7000.com for the 7000 these anomalies have been taken care of by some clever editing beyond the capabilities of most owners, so it's all really quite unremarkable if you appreciate the facts and the history

I suppose it's a bit like trying to run a PC program on a machine with Windows 98, when the program was specifically written to execute on Windows XP, taking advantage of the new technology.

------------------
Willum

And I guess in addition to you, Alec, and those folk at Technics/Note some equally clever folk at EMC Technics Works Pro in Germany had worked that out as well...
Although they seem to have stopped at KN5000 and probably concentrated on Yamaha equipment.
I don't think I'll fiddle around though - I could easily bxxxxr everything up...chuckle.
Rog
p.s. thanks for explaining

that's a quite reasonable analogy Willum, as you put it specifically for writing a program. As long as people don't get the impression that the 2600 is XP to the 7000s 98 overall which would be wildly inaccurate

The EMC case is because of the compression introduced on the 6000, and that is why the conversions are stuck at 5000 format. When the 6000 came out I gave Klauss information to enable reverse engineering the 6000 compression, but this was a very difficult job. Perhaps with the demise of Technics instruments any possible contractual reasons may allow a rethink, we shall have to see whether it's worth his while now.

I have had both and the KN2400 is compatible as is the KN2600.

What is needed is an all around compatibility chart that shows which models are compatible to one another. Which would include the PR's.

As I recall there was such animal (still may exist on a website), but I think it went up to KN5000 level and stopped.

Like a spreadsheet chart, on the header (columns), will list all models, the source. The left side (rows) will list all models again, the destination. Looking at the column for PR604/804 will have X's on the model formats it can load based on the models listed on the left (Rows). Ditto with the KN7000, looking at the source column it would have X's on what it could load, based on the models listed on the rows.

So if one wanted to know, is the KN2600 compatible with the KN7000? Looking at a chart, you would lookup on the source KN2600 and if the KN7000 format will load there would be an "X" on the KN7000 row. Then look at the source for the KN7000, if the KN7000 can load KN2600 files then there would be an "X" on the row for the KN2600.

Anthony

Hi All,

When I started to write the conversion program I took a look at the diffenent files and I found, as Alec said, the biggest different in in the Hex Code Header Information. Replacing these codes did allow my PR54 files to load in the KN7000. However, I used the program to convert 2 songs in a test that I had EZ-Recorded then edited by adding some additional tracks.

On these two files I found that replacing the Hex Codes was not all it took. When I compaired the files with KN7000 files I found that the editing had added some additional bits in the middle of some of the files (like the Sequence File) that caused the rest of the file to be offset by about 16 bits up to the point where the next set of Bits were inserted and then it was off by 32 bit.

I decided I didn't know enough about the file formats to start removing bits or moving bits around.

I compaired the PR54 files to KN2600 files and found they were almost identical except for the Hex Codes.

Without the file format information the only other thing I could do would be the record a song, convert it load it into a KN7K and save it.

Then take both files and record the same additional notes on a track and save them both. Then compare the files.

It's hard to do when I don't have both Keyboards available for testing.

Writing the program is easy if you have the format information. It's getting the information that's hard.

Take Care,
Heather

Hiya Anthony
That compatibility chart is on Gunnar Jonny's wonderful web site http://home.c2i.net/gjgotaas/
and you are right it does only go so far but maybe Gunnar will be kind enough to update it following Alec's advice above...
Hiya Heather
You're way beyond me but thanks for trying..
Cheers
Rog

[This message has been edited by RMepstead (edited 03-17-2004).]

[This message has been edited by RMepstead (edited 03-17-2004).]