the music that can be created itself,......this one is better then this one, etc, etc, etc, what can be achieved musically through a players talent using these incredible arranger KB machines is what should concentrated on. Or has these arranger Kb's spoiled many regarding playing talent with all their automation features lessening ones playing abilities in a false sense thinking the latest & greatest model somehow makes you a better player for some unknown reason?
What are your thoughts?

I have limited keyboard chops and know it. However, I can arrange tunes, sing a little, and present a song that helps people reminisce and enjoy the musical moment. My arranger allows me to add to the solo experience by providing the tools to enhance a song far beyond what I could do playing solo piano alone. I think arrangers help develop musical skills, especially within the context of a “band” created by one person. For example, I listen to the rhythm section to see what the bass, drums, and other instruments are doing. That’s really helpful. I can’t dazzle with impromptu solo playing. But, the arranger allows a richer, fuller sound, with multiple voices that most patrons seem to enjoy. I’ve never had a comment that implies fakery, cutting corners, or musically getting by on the cheap. Most comments are along the lines of, “Wow, that thing is amazing, what will the technology folks come up with next?”

I agree that an arranger, used properly, can help enhance one's musical presentation, and help the player improve his or her skills on several levels... however, they sometimes make the player lazy and the skills are actually diminished... Also, I don't want people saying "wow that THING is amazing", I want them saying "wow YOU are amazing".

...but I think that's part of Donny's point; what you said above is all about the arranger, with NO acknowledgment of YOU or your musical input. Sounds like the patrons you quoted above will go home remembering how "amazing" that keyboard was but can't recall who was playing it. Call me conceited, but I want them to remember ME, not what equipment I was using. JMO, though.

chas

Looks like you beat me to it Tony, but at least we were on the same wavelength.

chas

In all the years I've been an entertainer, both with a guitar and arranger keyboard, I've never had a single person come up to me and say "Wow! What an incredible guitar, or Wow! that's an incredible keyboard." It's just never happened - not once. In contrast, many, many individuals, including many pro musicians, have complemented me on the performances.

Now, I can say with absolute certainty that since I began playing an arranger keyboard my sense of timing improved dramatically within a few days. Only wish my bandmates timing would have improved along with mine, but other than my fiddle player, the others never seemed to stay in step with the perfect timing of the arranger keyboard.

The arranger keyboard also provided me with a wide degree of versatility, far more than I had with my 12-string guitar, thus allowing me to greatly expand my song list. It's pretty rare when someone comes up to me and requests a song that I do not know. When it happens, though, I just tell them "I'm sorry, but I don't know that song." Fortunately, that only happens about once a year at most.

The one thing I wish I had the ability to do is play from sheet music, something I never could get the hang of. Yes, I can read it, at least to some minor degree, but the information just never wants to communicate from my tiny brain to my fingers. Totally different with guitar tabs, though. (Never understood why - guess I'm just dumb, or lazy.)

Now, every arranger keyboard I've owned, Yamaha, Roland, Korg, etc..., all sounded great at the time of purchase, and I loved each and every one of them. The only reason I ever sold the first one is because the next one sounded better to me, which has been the case ever since. At this stage of the game, however, being semi-retired, I would be hard pressed to look at a new keyboard. I was at the top of my game when illness forced me to retire, and it was an arranger keyboard that got me there.

Bottom line, thank goodness for arranger keyboards - to me they were the lifeblood of the OMB entertainer industry.

All the best,

Gary

Ditto what J.Larry and Gary said!
Ciao,
Jerry

The magic is when a player uses the instrument in this case an arranger KB combined with awesome chops to create amazing music with an arranger. Having the experience and good fortune to have played with other talented musicians in a band scenario really helps when using an arranger KB successfully in that one would know how all the parts work together to create a unified collaboration of musical parts to form a song. That said it will also teach you how to sit in the "Mix" and know how to comp,sing, & when to solo to produce an arranger KB song in a very effective way. Exercises in memorizing, timing, playing sounds correctly, playing off the cuff & out of the box, are imperative. Of course the layman audience will always be amazed at the technology, but you owe it to yourself to be the best you can be which in turn will give you inner satisfaction as a musician either on stage, studio, or even in your living room.

... imagine that ?!? ...

Speaking for all makes of arrangers, they just keep on getting better & better. Not too long ago, many over here stated that we've reached the pinacle of arranger technology. Yet in spite of this, one new model after the other emerges & every new model sounds better & more realistic.

As long as the world is not at war, the technology will just keep on getting better & better. We have so much to look forward to in this regard.

Then there are those who keep on creating utuilities, styles, sounds, multipads & a host of other things for these already stunning machines.

So off course we keep on sounding better & better. Just the ability to operate these machines at close to their max requires a new skill of musicality, with a lot of technical stuff attached to it.

Does it make the arranger player less of a musician? I doubt this very much. They might be different, but they are just as much musically included as the guy on the sax, piano, trumpet, guitar or whatever...

Some pilots fly hang gliders, others microlights, other Jumbo jets, other sophisticated fighter aircraft. They have one thing in common - they all fly & they are all pilots, regardless of the technicality of it! And each one of them handles his/her flying equipment to the best it can be handled & fly. So it is with arrangers in the lives of musicians too.

As for the amazing part - I would not mind if some say: Wow, that machine is amazing, especially in the way you operate it. After all, we are individuals controlling a full band, are we not. I have no gripe if someone is impressed by my stunning fully automated guitar player. After all, I'm only the conductor of all these incredible musicians following my every instruction to the letter!

Most of our feedback is that we play well with & use high quality midi files and/or backtracks when in fact we are always performing live. To the contrary, it makes me feel good as it means that what they hear cannot be perceived as coming from any level of live playing. Man, I just LOVE my arrangers!