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#413395 - 12/21/15 05:15 PM
Re: PA4X - Tyros 5 comparison
[Re: DonM]
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Senior Member
Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
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Edited by Dnj (12/21/15 05:26 PM)
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#413397 - 12/21/15 06:11 PM
Re: PA4X - Tyros 5 comparison
[Re: DonM]
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15576
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
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Just finished listening to the entire comparison. Both keyboards sound fantastic - no doubt about it! My take on them: Pianos - both about the same for the Grand Pianos, maybe a bit more depth to the Yamaha, though. Guitars - Definitely Yamaha gets the edge here. Organs - Korg has some really neat effects. Brass - Yamaha gets the nod here - great brass. Stings - About equal, IMO. Drums - Yamaha by a mile. Much hotter, far more realistic, crisper, full sounding. Don, get the T5!  Gary 
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!
K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)
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#413410 - 12/21/15 11:17 PM
Re: PA4X - Tyros 5 comparison
[Re: DonM]
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Senior Member
Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
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Gary, if somebody GAVE me a Tyros 5, I would just sell it and get something easier to move around. I will only be getting a 61-note version of anything I might get.
The Korg PA4x is outstanding size and weight for a top of the line arranger.
They really didn't demo many of the sounds I'm interested in. I know Yamaha has an outstanding Pedal Steel and Korg doesn't. Maybe the 4X will.
I'm interested in electric guitars, saxes, piano, organs, fiddle, harmonica. . . more or less in that order. Both brands have really good acoustic guitars. Piano on either is fine, as is organ, strings and harmonica. Electric guitar still go to Yamaha, but I have heard snippits of some really good ones in the 4x.
It's fun to speculate.
At this point the operating features, ease of setup and transportation are more important to me than sounds, and Korg is WAY better for my needs. Yours may differ!
_________________________
DonM
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#413417 - 12/22/15 02:20 AM
Re: PA4X - Tyros 5 comparison
[Re: DonM]
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Senior Member
Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5410
Loc: English Riviera, UK
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If you want easy play (Press a button and everything is done for you) then the T5 is the one to go for, however if you want to make the instrument your own, (IE: Not sound the same as everybody else that has a T5) then the Korg is way ahead in most departments.
If you want the best however, then get a T5 and a PA4x (Use a dual keyboard stand) and also add in a Roland Integra module, then you will really be in heaven, with the only way forward after that would be getting a laptop and some VST’s. (This really would take you to a whole new level)
The only way to see which is best for you is to try out both keyboards, then go with what your gut tells you and enjoy.
If I was forced to have one arranger, then for me personally the PA4x is a no brainer, however it may not suit others.
Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).
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#413419 - 12/22/15 04:36 AM
Re: PA4X - Tyros 5 comparison
[Re: DonM]
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Senior Member
Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1167
Loc: Oradea, RO
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Bill,
You say VST's will take you to a while new level. Please elaborate on this a bit, is there something particularly you are referring to? I have to admit, do not have a lot of the more expensive VSTis, but the ones I have are not that extraordinary compared to the latest arrangers sound set. There is indeed a big difference when it comes about some sounds like drums and synths, and of course there is the editing power of a VSTi, but other than that...?
Thanks!
_________________________
Yamaha S770, Studio One 3, EMU 0404USB, ESI, ATH, Dell. And others.
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#413425 - 12/22/15 07:50 AM
Re: PA4X - Tyros 5 comparison
[Re: adimatis]
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Senior Member
Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5410
Loc: English Riviera, UK
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Bill,
You say VST's will take you to a while new level. Please elaborate on this a bit, is there something particularly you are referring to? I have to admit, do not have a lot of the more expensive VSTis, but the ones I have are not that extraordinary compared to the latest arrangers sound set. There is indeed a big difference when it comes about some sounds like drums and synths, and of course there is the editing power of a VSTi, but other than that...?
Thanks! There are some great sounds on modern arrangers however my mainstay in the 90s was computer based, and once you get used to this quality of sound, hardware arrangers fall short, (The main reason I bought my Abacus was because it could run VST’s on-board, thus my music system could be moved to the lounge) combine this with fact that I am regularly out listening to live bands and you can see why I find arrangers and hardware boards in general to be less then realistic. Using VST’s opens up a new world in quality sound, going way beyond anything you get in a arranger keyboard, however work is involved to make it work, so if you are happy with a TV Dinner, then the press a button and everything is done for you approach of an arranger is unmatched, however give me a real dinner any day. Examples: (Specific) B3 Vintage Organs Classic/Theatre Acoustic Guitar Orchestral Example libraries at various prices Garritan Komplete 10 East West As you can hear from the above, (Assuming you have a decent sound system) all the TOTL arrangers pale in comparison when it comes to realistic sound. Remember all the sound features you get in a TOTL arranger have been available for years in the pro market. The final decision (As always) is down to the individual person’s wants, which only they can decide. Hope this helps Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).
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#413428 - 12/22/15 08:40 AM
Re: PA4X - Tyros 5 comparison
[Re: DonM]
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15576
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
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Tony, when I listen to the comparison demos, I use headphones, which allow me to hear what anyone else with relatively normal hearing can hear, at my age, obviously. And, to my knowledge, the vast majority of older musicians, a category of which many of are currently in, have various degrees of hearing impairment, therefore I can probably assess the sound quality of a keyboard, especially while wearing headphones, as well as anyone on the forum. I agree Don about the weight and bulk issues. The Tyros series are all bulky to transport and set up. However, he has guys at Ernest's that will happily load and unload his gear for him, and he can, if he wishes, leave his system in place most of the time. He just has to show up, look pretty, play and sing pretty. That's the kinda job most guys only dreams of. Good luck, Gary
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!
K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)
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#413431 - 12/22/15 09:25 AM
Re: PA4X - Tyros 5 comparison
[Re: abacus]
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rosetree
Unregistered
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Bill,
You say VST's will take you to a while new level. Please elaborate on this a bit, is there something particularly you are referring to? I have to admit, do not have a lot of the more expensive VSTis, but the ones I have are not that extraordinary compared to the latest arrangers sound set. There is indeed a big difference when it comes about some sounds like drums and synths, and of course there is the editing power of a VSTi, but other than that...?
Thanks! There are some great sounds on modern arrangers however my mainstay in the 90s was computer based, and once you get used to this quality of sound, hardware arrangers fall short, (The main reason I bought my Abacus was because it could run VST’s on-board, thus my music system could be moved to the lounge) combine this with fact that I am regularly out listening to live bands and you can see why I find arrangers and hardware boards in general to be less then realistic. Using VST’s opens up a new world in quality sound, going way beyond anything you get in a arranger keyboard, however work is involved to make it work, so if you are happy with a TV Dinner, then the press a button and everything is done for you approach of an arranger is unmatched, however give me a real dinner any day. Examples: (Specific) B3 Vintage Organs Classic/Theatre Acoustic Guitar Orchestral Example libraries at various prices Garritan Komplete 10 East West As you can hear from the above, (Assuming you have a decent sound system) all the TOTL arrangers pale in comparison when it comes to realistic sound. Remember all the sound features you get in a TOTL arranger have been available for years in the pro market. The final decision (As always) is down to the individual person’s wants, which only they can decide. Hope this helps Bill The blues guitar demo of Real Guitar sounds artificial however. The pitch bend of the melody steel guitar is so much overdone and obviously still not rendered realistically by physical modeling. So one has to distinguish: the static samples are as realistic as they could be, but the dynamic playing still causes problems with some instruments.
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#413432 - 12/22/15 09:29 AM
Re: PA4X - Tyros 5 comparison
[Re: abacus]
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Member
Registered: 11/17/12
Posts: 210
Loc: Canada
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..."If you want easy play (Press a button and everything is done for you) then the T5 is the one to go for, however if you want to make the instrument your own, (IE: Not sound the same as everybody else that has a T5) then the Korg is way ahead in most departments."...
Bill
Korg doesn't have a monopoly or advantage of edit-ability to have that unique sound . Both the TOTL arrangers, the Tyros 5 and the Korg PA4X have easy play features, voices, styles, and default setups with one button presses. editing is massive in both keyboards to alter the sounds and settings to your liking for your own unique sound. Main different is Yamaha got the default sounds so good and realistic that most Tyros 5 users don't have to tweak and fool around with the settings. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Each keyboard has advantages, features, and edits different from each other. Depends on the needs of the user and whether the addition features and total quality of a TOTL arranger suits them or budget. Finally, Korg is catching up to Yamaha in the guitar department. I still give the the edge to Yamaha for both the acoustic and electric guitars, and the amp and DSP interface to adjust or dynamically change your parameters for live effects. The Yamaha PSR-S970 is a great buy for one of the best guitar voices and guitar DSP effects. The SA effects add that extra dimension, realism and manual nuance control over those voice selections found on the Tyros 5 and similar in concept to the DNC voices and buttons on the Korg. I would assume that the Korg DNC effects can be assigned to pedals instead of having to remove one of your hands from the keyboard to press or activate these effects. On the Tyros 5, you can assign ART 1 & ART 2 button effects to pedal controls, plus using your expression control. For my convenience and easy of using all these controls at the same time with one foot, for ultimate guitar voice realism, I combined all these controls on one simple modified Yamaha FC7 expression pedal. Not only different SA effects assigned to each right and left button, but even control the a "Wha-Wha" effect live assigning the expression pedal to one of the amp 'Wha-Wha" DSP effects. (see photo) I still haven't heard any VST set, controlled by a keyboard, that beats the realism of the Tyros 5 SA2 voices. A good selection of SA2 expansion voices are reasonably priced for added variety, plus editable Sound Set, plus fully adjustable, Vol, Pan, DSP blocks, filter, harmonics, tune, effects, EQ, and compression to name a few. If one choices to use the default settings, then perhaps similar playing style could make a voice sound similar between two Tyros 5s or another Yamaha model with the same voice and default settings. Would this not hold true for other brands as well, or even one using studio programs with similar VTS sets and default settings? The following MP3 is one of the best examples of the Tyros 5 SA2 voices I have heard. No VTS recording I have heard comes close to the realism and user control the Tyros 5 has. "A Christmas Song" Instrumentation (Tyros 5): Tenor Sax S.Art2! (internal) Lead melody-Bridge and Improv. (Full compass used) Muted Trumpet (S.Art2!) Romantic Strings Sax Section Clarinets and Flutes Glockenspiel Pop Piano Accoustic Bass Jazz Guitar (Mega Voice) Orchestral flute and Harp One Live Drum Track Dreamy Ballad Style BP=63 https://app.box.com/s/e3eykkc2mdnu523zo1o3ywn627p6onh2 Regards, Marcus .jpg "FC7-(mod).jpg")
Edited by Marcus (12/22/15 09:38 AM)
_________________________
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#413434 - 12/22/15 09:51 AM
Re: PA4X - Tyros 5 comparison
[Re: Marcus]
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Senior Member
Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
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..."If you want easy play (Press a button and everything is done for you) then the T5 is the one to go for, however if you want to make the instrument your own, (IE: Not sound the same as everybody else that has a T5) then the Korg is way ahead in most departments."...
Bill
Korg doesn't have a monopoly or advantage of edit-ability to have that unique sound . Both the TOTL arrangers, the Tyros 5 and the Korg PA4X have easy play features, voices, styles, and default setups with one button presses. editing is massive in both keyboards to alter the sounds and settings to your liking for your own unique sound. Main different is Yamaha got the default sounds so good and realistic that most Tyros 5 users don't have to tweak and fool around with the settings. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Each keyboard has advantages, features, and edits different from each other. Depends on the needs of the user and whether the addition features and total quality of a TOTL arranger suits them or budget. Finally, Korg is catching up to Yamaha in the guitar department. I still give the the edge to Yamaha for both the acoustic and electric guitars, and the amp and DSP interface to adjust or dynamically change your parameters for live effects. The Yamaha PSR-S970 is a great buy for one of the best guitar voices and guitar DSP effects. The SA effects add that extra dimension, realism and manual nuance control over those voice selections found on the Tyros 5 and similar in concept to the DNC voices and buttons on the Korg. I would assume that the Korg DNC effects can be assigned to pedals instead of having to remove one of your hands from the keyboard to press or activate these effects. On the Tyros 5, you can assign ART 1 & ART 2 button effects to pedal controls, plus using your expression control. For my convenience and easy of using all these controls at the same time with one foot, for ultimate guitar voice realism, I combined all these controls on one simple modified Yamaha FC7 expression pedal. Not only different SA effects assigned to each right and left button, but even control the a "Wha-Wha" effect live assigning the expression pedal to one of the amp 'Wha-Wha" DSP effects. (see photo) I still haven't heard any VST set, controlled by a keyboard, that beats the realism of the Tyros 5 SA2 voices. A good selection of SA2 expansion voices are reasonably priced for added variety, plus editable Sound Set, plus fully adjustable, Vol, Pan, DSP blocks, filter, harmonics, tune, effects, EQ, and compression to name a few. If one choices to use the default settings, then perhaps similar playing style could make a voice sound similar between two Tyros 5s or another Yamaha model with the same voice and default settings. Would this not hold true for other brands as well, or even one using studio programs with similar VTS sets and default settings? The following MP3 is one of the best examples of the Tyros 5 SA2 voices I have heard. No VTS recording I have heard comes close to the realism and user control the Tyros 5 has. "A Christmas Song" Instrumentation (Tyros 5): Tenor Sax S.Art2! (internal) Lead melody-Bridge and Improv. (Full compass used) Muted Trumpet (S.Art2!) Romantic Strings Sax Section Clarinets and Flutes Glockenspiel Pop Piano Accoustic Bass Jazz Guitar (Mega Voice) Orchestral flute and Harp One Live Drum Track Dreamy Ballad Style BP=63 https://app.box.com/s/e3eykkc2mdnu523zo1o3ywn627p6onh2 Regards, Marcus While i mostly agree with you on the T5... To me its still the best... Korg DNC technollogy is comparable to SA1 voices, yet nothing beats the SA2 voices.. And not just the sa2 voices but also the ensemble voices and the piano room feature in the CVP show what yamaha's real strength is, they take features from the top of the line studio vst's and turn them into the most playable instruments around... For realtime performing nothing beats a tyros 5... But pa4x is also an awesome instrument,.. The synthesis engine is far beyound what Yamaha allows when it comes to creating your very own sounds... I think the synth sounds and the piano sounds of the pa4x are better then the Tyros 5... Also the styles and drums just sound better then Yamaha, not much but i prefer the Korg styles.. There is also more realtime controll over the style engine of pa4x.. There is a chordsequencer, and some other features i would love to see on the tyros 5.. I also very much like the physical build quallity of the pa4x.. But software stabillity at release, is a huge huge win for yamaha... Never buy a recently released Korg totl arranger, allways wayt half a year till they have the software stabillity under controll..
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#413437 - 12/22/15 09:53 AM
Re: PA4X - Tyros 5 comparison
[Re: travlin'easy]
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Senior Member
Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
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Tony, when I listen to the comparison demos, I use headphones, which allow me to hear what anyone else with relatively normal hearing can hear, at my age, obviously. And, to my knowledge, the vast majority of older musicians, a category of which many of are currently in, have various degrees of hearing impairment, therefore I can probably assess the sound quality of a keyboard, especially while wearing headphones, as well as anyone on the forum. I agree Don about the weight and bulk issues. The Tyros series are all bulky to transport and set up. However, he has guys at Ernest's that will happily load and unload his gear for him, and he can, if he wishes, leave his system in place most of the time. He just has to show up, look pretty, play and sing pretty. That's the kinda job most guys only dreams of. Good luck, Gary Gary, you don't understand, most of the control and operational features I want are also missing, or harder to achieve on the Tyros. I'm not, and never will be, in the market for another Tyros, until they reduce the size, add touch screen, revamp the operating system and improve the vocal harmonizer, just for starts.
_________________________
DonM
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