For me, arrangers are a great tool for entertaining. With my playing skills, I never planned on doing Carnigie Hall....just some halls with seniors in it.

I get the impression that some folks imply that if you give up arrangers in favor of 'real pianos', well then Carnigie Hall(or whatever venue of status) is the next logical step.

In reality, I sometimes think this forum would be better served if it was called a forum for keyboard/piano entertainers.

It looks like people are not reading or don't understand what I am trying to say. I already said there are many, many good arranger players. And there are bad once too. But that is not the point here I think it's not what Chas who started this great post meant also. It is what arrangers represent. And I am not being ignorant at all. Maybe selling ourselves cheap to greedy hotels and restaurant owners because they "CAN'T" afford at least couple more musicians so that can look like something more than what it is. Also I am not afraid to say what I think , whether it is about music or politics or religion.
Bachus mentioned that he is a home player. There is nothing wrong with that. I can see by his post that he has a lot of knowledge in keyboards and technology. And it doesn't really mean that if someone is a professional musician that he is also better than some home player. We've seen or heard that here also.

I am against what arrangers represent.An average arranger player will spend time to learn all 2 fingers chords combinations instead of using the once that he or she already knows. And that is the mentality of an arranger player. So are we cheating and faking music with our arrangers?? I think 90% we are.

And Gary before calling something BS please read first and try to understand what was said. Don't assume.

MikiMiki,

I think I understand what you are saying. But I'm also guessing you may be missing the point of this arranger forum.

I'm originally a string and brass player....college trained. Did concerts and what have you in some 'educated' venues. And now, I'm attempting to learn piano with a weighted keyboard.

Arrangers, for me, are a different animal. They are about entertaining...not about learning 'Fur Eliese' (sorry missing the umlaut on Fur) on the piano. I bought a weighted piano to learn Fur Eliese.

Let's enjoy arrangers for what they are...extremely versatile keyboards that work great in entertainment venues.

I did read what you said "Come on Bruno. Usually better musicians don't play arrangers. And they don't have to. And also there are some really good arranger players, but in general most are pretty poor musicians. Sure do many things but still only mediocre at best as a musicians or players."

That's damned-well insulting, both to me, and to the many excellent musicians and entertainers on this forum.

Gary

Everyone knows that I have a love-hate relationship with arrangers.

Yes, I use them when they are appropriate for the job (about 25% of the time).

No, they are not the instruments of choice, for me.


Thing is, Jazz players play off of each other. When you reach that wonderful state where you're sharing unspoken ideas, the result can often be mind-blowing.

The section backs the soloist and makes small but "mighty" adjustments in response to the ideas coming from the soloist.

As a guitar player, I love to switch from playing section inspired lead to a comping mode which reflects what's being played by others.


That can't happen with an arranger. So, I don't use an arranger on those kinds of jobs.

Best use for me is left handed bass, using the internal drums and programmed drum breaks activated by a pedal.

One rule I have is NEVER use a sequence by choice. That's MY RULE, and I've never done it...never will. Also, I think a laptop on stage looks as tacky as a tip jar, and will NEVER use either. Also, I NEVER play nursing homes, but that's a different story....different topic altogether.

But that's just me. What's important is to develop your plan, develop the necessary skills and JUST DO IT!

Believe me, a 6 figure income is way easier than some think if the approach, dedication and abilities are there.


Russ

mirza ...It is wrong to paint a whole group of people with your broad brush insult ... that is as bad as me saying all jazz musicians are drug addicts !!!
MANY good musicians have turned to arrangers due to NEED - not a need to 'hide behind' an arranger keyboard, but a need to continue working as a full time musician, BECAUSE OF the fact that venues will not pay for for bands or combos anymore ...when that happened I took the position that if ONE musician was going to be paid, it might as well be me ...

Tony, that's certainly the right approach.


R.

Thanks Russ ... it has worked for me ...

Tony, Gary or whoever thought I was insulting I do apologize . But there is a saying," If we all think alike, than nobody is thinking

We all saw when Yamaha has those workshops when new keyboard comes out so they can sell them. We saw who comes on those. Those are majority of arranger players. And that is how these major companies present arrangers to us. That is the picture. And that is why we loose major features on Tyros. Because of majority of players don't know anything about editing or making new styles, or even rearranging the ones on the keyboard itself. They are not made for pro players, well all except Korg now. That is why we get crapy keys on them, although even much cheaper synths have much better keys.

If this is insulting, then let me rephrase it like this. Arrangers the best thing ever. They probably came directly from god.
We should praise them and they will all go to keyboard heaven. Hammonds, old Dx and analog stuff will all burn in hell anyway

Yep, 'cause they're only played by Atheists .

chas