....one thing they all have in common, from the lowliest Casio to the Tyros 5 or PA4x, is that, EXCEPT IN THE HANDS OF SUPERSTARS SUCH AS MARIO PARISI, they all sound like, well, arrangers. It's not just the members here (amateur or pro) but professional company demonstrators as well. Now bear in mind, I'm referring to when they are used in the most common way (style play). When used in 'synth' mode, obviously they sound like any other synth-type keyboard. But that's not why people buy arrangers and in those circumstances, pure synths or workstations would probably do a better job (although most TOTL arrangers can hold their own in this regard).

People keep posting (mostly factory) demos (I'm not sure why since anyone interested in a certain keyboard can easily look it up for themselves), and what stands out imnmediately is how "arranger-ish" it sounds. Some sound good by some measure, I suppose, but I think some of that is because a lot of people who are immersed in arranger music have forgotten what non-arranger music sounds like.

AND, what is worse, with each new model, we get (and wish for) more and more features that heighten this effect. In some ways, backing tracks (made by live musicians with real instruments) may be more realistic (sounding) even if not quite as flexible. I realize that in many venues, this matters little, but in most mainstream music venues such as jazz or rock clubs, fine restaurants, churchs, etc., it does matter.

As I've gotten older, I've lost some of my 'geek' interest in arranger keyboards and mostly concentrate on my TRUE love, the Hammond organ, but I still enjoy observing people's attitudes and approaches to this marvelous piece of technology. Although arranger players probably make up only about 1-2% of the music community, probably even less among the professional music community, it's amazing to see the loyalty and yes, camaraderie, within the community.

I still have my arrangers although I rarely turn them on except for thge BK7m which I use daily as a (excellent) drum machine to practice and/or rehearse with. Although I don't 'hate' them (as I have been accused of), I DO feel that the more advanced they get (not in terms of sound quality but automation/self-play features), the more they chip away at musical creativity AND the desire to improve technically as a musician. This is why I have said in the past that I would NEVER buy one for my child who was a serious music student. For an adult with little or no musical background but has an interest (and lots of money to spare ), I think it's the BEE's KNEES. I also think it is perfectly acceptable at less critical venues such as NH's (although for 1 hour, I would personally rather hear a (good) pianist/vocalist (even if it were a digital piano - would just sound more authentic - JMO)).

Just sharing some thoughts for the purpose of discussion, nothing more. Currently looking hard at one of those Privia pianos (560 maybe) as soon as I can figure out the difference between all the models .

chas

I said it before. To me arrangers are just necessary evil. I would always choose to play with someone else than alone.

ABSOLUTELY !!! I have a gig coming up with the sax player from our band in NY ... we get to play about 2-3 gigs a year and it's like we never stopped playing together ... same holds true when I play with the guitar player from that same band ...

I have this problem with Hammonds - they all sound so Hammodish. It really doesn't make any difference who plays them, they still sound just like a Hammond Organ. Same is true when I hear a fiddle, guitar, drums, sax, etc.... They all sound so much like the keyboard instruments, but more often than not, not nearly as good. Oh well, just thought I would toss this $hit into the fan on another cold, winter night.

Another fun day in Paradise,

Gary

May be....but one thing they will do that an arranger won't...and that is, they'll all tell you exactly where you are as a musician.

chas

True. And nothing beats the original, be it a Hammond, a trumpet etc. What would an arranger imitate if there were no original in the first place...

“May be....but one thing they will do that an arranger won't...and that is, they'll all tell you exactly where you are as a musician”.

A person who plays an arranger keyboard and a person who plays an induvial instrument are two different categories. My Dad was a concert pianist; when he played my Yamaha he sounded awful. And when I played his piano I was terrible.

The person who plays an arranger keyboard needs many talents. I might say much more knowledge and talent, but it focused in many areas.
B
ad analogy, but I’ll give it a try:
A great trumpet player is like a man who is fantastic at first base, but no other position. An arranger player must have knowledge and ability in every position.

Just had eye surgery today, I hope this makes some sense.
John C.

Come on Bruno. Usually better musicians don't play arrangers. And they don't have to. And also there are some really good arranger players, but in general most are pretty poor musicians. Sure do many things but still only mediocre at best as a musicians or players. Transpose button is arranger players best friend. And I am not saying people should not play arrangers.We all do use them. I play mine when I have to. But if we want to be honest about music, and I assume we all love music . It's not even close to the real music and it never will be. But it's easier to think the other way around. Makes us feel good about ourselves.

MIKIMIKI, that's total BS! And you know it. I know some of the best musicians in this part of the world, many of which were Peabody trained, and a significant number of them now play an arranger keyboard.

I played a guitar and sang in local bars for 15 years, everyone thought I was damned good at what I did, but when arranger keyboards came into being, I jumped on that bandwagon and never looked back.

The vast majority of the players on this, and most other forums, ALL started out playing an individual instrument. Don Mason was a great trumpet player, he was first seat. He plays an arranger keyboard now - and you're trying to tell us that he and the rest of us are lousy musicians. That's total BS!

Additionally, the vast majority of us were in bands at one time in our musical lives. I had a 5 piece country band, Tony Madalone worked with a big band in New England, Donny Pesce played accordion with a band in NYC, Boo Hargis knows more chords than God and played in New Orleans with the best of the best, but by your analysis we're ALL mediocre or lousy musicians because we opted to go with an arranger keyboard.

Now, I can almost guarantee you that if a trumpet, violin, cello, etc... had a transpose button, it would be used by those individuals. And, there was a piano with a transpose function, but it was very limited in scope. And guitar players have a transpose function with their capo and it's used by some of the top entertainers you see on stage all the time.

Arranger keyboards are instruments, no different than any other instrument. However, unlike someone that just plays a single instrument, the arranger keyboard player must learn to emulate all the other instruments, and do it accurately and efficiently. An arranger keyboard player must be someone that is good at multitasking, and have the ability to perform dozens of tasks on the fly, frequently alone in front of a large audience. More often than not, he or she, must also be a proficient vocalist and not just a good musician. He or she must also be a front-man, someone that can interact with the audiences while performing.

Now, if you sincerely believe that arranger keyboard players are hack musicians, what the Hell are you doing on an arranger keyboard player's forum?

Nuff said,

Gary