...and Democrats .

chas

Chas, we all have opinions, and that's fine, but if you are passionate about something you are going to stand up for it not be defensive of it, like you are of your opinion.

To answer your comments,
1) they can sound robotic, if you just turn them on and do nothing more than change chord using a single finger - boring I agree you. You are able to do so much more, with variations, pauses, inversions, MP3's etc not to mention changing the style mid song, live music should be ALIVE not played robotic-ally, couldn't agree more.
2)It COULD, yes, or it COULD inspire you, it is just a mental state. Are you a glass half full or a glass half empty person?
I have never heard a great musician called themselves good at all. They are still trying to better themselves, and improve; but kicking themselves over their last stuff ups, even if no one heard them.
Well, I am glad you stuck with it for so long, but may be you need some lessons or something. NOT, how to play music, you know how, but how to play like a guitarist or how to play like a flutist or violinist etc. To incorporate that into your music to help others hear the other instruments NOT just styles.

I don't know what other instruments you play, I play classical piano started at age 10, @ 17 started banjo, @ 28 started mandolin and 5 string electric bass. My first arranger was a Yamaha DSR1000 or something. This does NOT make me an expert nor do I have an EGO, I am constantly learning and growing, and still making mistakes; blame my classical piano teacher, who kept at me to "get it right".

My voice on this honored forum is worth very little to anyone. I have not the credentials like some here, nor the years of input that some have helped other here, just MY opinion.

At the end of the day CHAS, my thoughts are please don't give up, but get out more and find a way to break through the brick wall you seem to have about your playing or others playing arranger KB's; Be the one that shows them how to really play these instruments of awesomeness that they can be if you/we choose.
Allan

*

This thread goes off in so many directions, I thought I would not quote the many good points that were made and just add my own two cents.

My brief history: 50 years on accordion, 35 years playing arranger keyboards, 30 years playing piano, 20 years disc jockey and Karaoke artist.

I loved the accordion and still do. It's a creative instrument that allows you to emotionalize. When I switched to arranger boards, I thought it was the cat's meow at the time. Then the piano came into the picture and I really enjoyed the versatility of this magnificent instrument. Next was disc jockey time where I was working sometimes 5-6 days a week. Point being for those 4 hours on every gig, I was subconsciously listening to all kinds of music and the incredible arrangements of the songs. That gave me another whole perspective on music production. Leading up to, I'm back to playing the piano instead of my PA3x. Why? As someone already mentioned......an arranger keyboard is too robotic. And to make it NOT "too robotic" is not worth the time and energy I'd have to put into it. On the piano, I can express myself in any way I want. I don't have to concern myself with "what button for what variation....what style" 'cause I can make my own variation and styles. Same with "fills," base lines, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I still love arrangers, but my preference is now a basic piano. No gadgets, frills, bells & whistles to distract me. All my concentration can now go into creativity instead of dealing with the rigidity of working all those tabs and sliders and touch screens.

Now for my opinion on arranger players. The last good one I saw that I considered a genuine one-man-band was somewhere back in the 70's. Haven't seen one since that I like (well, I like to hear Don M play). All you hear now are vocalists who play chords behind themselves. Never approach playing a melody probably because they don't know how to. The rest are just doing the job....nothing but "robotic playing." Every song sounds the same. Very few drum breaks, no improvising on any of the 10,000 instruments in most modern arrangers, no thinking out arrangements, no modulation wheel or pitch wheel used, etc. When I was playing one of my favorite things to do was play a trombone patch melody in my left hand overriding or working against a trumpet patch melody line in my right hand in Dixieland tunes and still keeping the proper chording.

As for the giants like Marco Parisi, and the various company demonstrators.....I see them as good musicians but not great. They're good at what they do, but it all sounds the same because they all found their niche in the world of music...one set style of playing. You'll never hear Marco play a great Strauss waltz, or the Beer Barrel polka...it just ain't gonna happen. All these "greats" play "great" because they play ONE style all the time.

Now look at Billy Joel's compositions, or Elton John or the Beatles. Those are examples of musician's musicians. Billy Joel....that beautiful love song "Just the way you are" to a rocker like "My Life" to a Latin beat (Don't Ask Me Why)....complete versatility. The same with Elton John.....he goes from one style to another. The Beatles....450 songs and everyone different in structure (Yesterday, Ob-la-di, Ob-la-da, Paperback Rider).

Of all the arranger demos I've listened to in the last few years, nothing really reached out and touched me. The players were fine in many of them, but to me, a real musician can go comfortably from one genre to another and make every one sound like the real thing.

Arrangers are great, great instruments if you milk them for all they're worth. Unfortunately, in today's "instant gratification" world, players just shoot for their 15 minutes of fame on Youtube and couldn't care less about the image they're giving of an arranger keyboard. And that is why they sound "robotic" and unappealing in many ways. Nobody actually plays them like they're meant to be played.

Keep in mind that I grew up in a different era of arrangers. It was a time when more players pressed more buttons, stepped on more pedals and did their best to NOT sound "robotic!"

Mark

This thread makes no sense to me on an arranger keyboard forum. If you simply don't like arranger keyboard backing then please don't post. It is just trolling. Arranger backing to provide backing for vocal performance or right hand solo work can't be beat in a one man band. If you have a problem with that post it somewhere other than here or I will ensure that is your only choice. I don't want to read why someone doesn't like arrangers on this forum. It is simply negativity to try to feed your own musical ego. I guess it must need feeding. Stop !!!!! We don't care. Only you do. If you disagree you really need to stop and really examine your motivation to intentionally cause disruption.

My first job with an Arranger Keyboard

After singing and playing guitar professionally I bought my first arranger keyboard, a Yamaha. I had been using a Rhythm Ace, (an electronic drummer) for backing.

My keyboard skills were “0” so I had to become inventive. I purchased a Midi attachment for my guitar; wired it inti the Yamaha and the results were fantastic. I was doing a solo with a full band --- the chords on my guitar triggered the left hand of the keyboard. What a long way from using an electronic drummer.
My next step was to apply the knowledge I had from guitar to
the keyboard. Started with scales and left hand chord progressions.in all keys. After two years the guitar stayed at home.

For 25 years I have had one fantastic time with Arranger Keyboards and enjoyed every bit of it.

John C.
PS, I have an acoustic piano in my home which never gets played.

Arranger keyboards are invaluable to solo performers. And being able to trigger it from your guitar is awesome. So much better than just playing along with a drum machine.

Lyrics from Sonny and Cher's " And the Beat Goes On"

And the beat goes on, the beat goes on
Drums(arrangers) keep pounding a rhythm to the brain
La de da de de, la de da de da

And the beat goes on, yes, the beat goes on
And the beat goes on, and the beat goes on
The beat goes on and the beat goes on
The beat goes



Read more: Sonny & Cher - Beat Goes On Lyrics | MetroLyrics

Nailed it, Nigel.

Nailed it, StephenM52!

I am sure that by now people know where I stand on playing solo instruments, especially in a band, vs. playing an arranger KB ... I LOVED my 26 years gigging with the same 4 guys and would love to be doing it now - but let's face facts - right now the youngest guy in that band - me - is less than 3 months away from 75 years of age (did I really say that??? ) ... we would not be able to compete with the 'young bloods' of today the majority of whom are very talented musicians and vocalists ... so in order to keep my ego happy and keep playing I turned to AKBs and I LOVE it ... Is it a 'short cut' to entertaining; is it less demanding then playing a solo instrument; perhaps, but not necessarily so if the player continues to hone his or her skills as MANY on this board do ...
That being said, the AK 'bashing' on this forum does get tiresome, BUT I feel that this board is a microcosm of the world we live in - many people with many different viewpoints - and I don't feel they should be inhibited from speaking their mind AS LONG AS it does not get personal and insulting ... but when someone says or implies that all arranger players are incompetent musicians, whether the writer realizes it or not, that IS going to be taken as a personal insult ...
So I say, let the 'bashers' continue to bash, and I and many others on this board will continue in our efforts to improve our performances and be applauded, whether the audience is made up of 70 - 100+ somethings in NH and AL venues, or 30 -70 somethings in upscale restaurants, or wherever ...
Make beautiful music however you do it, and peace, out ...