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#416302 - 02/09/16 07:16 AM Midnight in Moscow Dixie - Lukewarm about SN-A
rosetree
Unregistered


Yesterday night I prepared a full dixieland version of Midnight in Moscow, inspired by the Kenny Ball version.
While I had taken written notes of the impros the clarinet plays during the first verse, I played everything else into the tracks spontaneously.
Trumpet, clarinet and trombone as well as acoustic bass and drums are SuperNatural Integra sounds. The muted/growl trumpet however is from the old expansion SRX 09, as is the banjo.

I always have the same impression when I mainly use SN-A sounds (and this trumpet is definitely identical to ARX-03!). They somehow lack a little bit of liveliness despite their modeled glissandi, legato etc. What they mainly lack is a real, sampled vibrato!

Maybe I will play the same sequencer file through the Ketron SD-1000 again in a few days, as my newly ordered SD-1000 is to arrive tomorrow (I stupidly sold the first one).

Midnight in Moscow, Integra version:

https://soundcloud.com/rorosetree/midnight-in-moscow-dixieland-on-roland-integra-7

Note: Also in memory of late Synthzone user "Dreamer".



Edited by rosetree (02/09/16 07:57 AM)

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#416349 - 02/09/16 12:20 PM Re: Midnight in Moscow Dixie - Lukewarm about SN-A [Re: ]
Mikem Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/14
Posts: 917
Loc: Quebec, Canada
I liked it! I did not know the title, but I recognized the music instantly. From what I remember, it dates back a few decades. Maybe from the 1960s. Right?

Regarding the brass and woodwind sounds, when I tried a Roland Jupiter-80 in a store, I also thought the SN-A sounds were not too realistic. The vibrato sounded synthetic. Other SN-A sounds were good, though.

In your music above, it was less noticeable because there were several instruments playing at the same time.

I always look forward to new music from you. Thanks!
_________________________
Mike

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#416350 - 02/09/16 01:06 PM Re: Midnight in Moscow Dixie - Lukewarm about SN-A [Re: ]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15576
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Very difficult song to play, at least for me, but you did a good job playing it. However, the style, while correct for the song, to me, sounded just awful. Now, don't get me wrong - YOU did a great job, but the style itself sounded way too busy, and overshadowed your talents.

Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#416352 - 02/09/16 01:21 PM Re: Midnight in Moscow Dixie - Lukewarm about SN-A [Re: travlin'easy]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
I thought it was well played it had that old 20'ssound feel to it too,...the banjo could be brought back a bit in the mix as it was too little dominate & overpowering,....and I didn't like the snare drum resonance to much a bit of a shell shallow sound,......
otherwise good job. But that can all be fixed easily with editing,.. Thank you for sharing. headphone


Edited by Dnj (02/09/16 03:34 PM)

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#416353 - 02/09/16 01:36 PM Re: Midnight in Moscow Dixie - Lukewarm about SN-A [Re: Mikem]
rosetree
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Mikem
I liked it! I did not know the title, but I recognized the music instantly. From what I remember, it dates back a few decades. Maybe from the 1960s. Right?

Regarding the brass and woodwind sounds, when I tried a Roland Jupiter-80 in a store, I also thought the SN-A sounds were not too realistic. The vibrato sounded synthetic. Other SN-A sounds were good, though.

In your music above, it was less noticeable because there were several instruments playing at the same time.

I always look forward to new music from you. Thanks!




Thanks! Interesting you didn't notice the artificial vibrato so much here. I'm torn, there is something about the trumpet I like very much and something I like better about a few MoXF and Ketron trumpets.

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#416355 - 02/09/16 01:46 PM Re: Midnight in Moscow Dixie - Lukewarm about SN-A [Re: travlin'easy]
rosetree
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: travlin'easy
Very difficult song to play, at least for me, but you did a good job playing it. However, the style, while correct for the song, to me, sounded just awful. Now, don't get me wrong - YOU did a great job, but the style itself sounded way too busy, and overshadowed your talents.

Gary cool


Thanks for your opinion. But there is no "style" (the Integra doesn't have styles or any automatic playing), so your criticism concerns what I did myself: I did the whole thing from scratch (in 2 hours), there isn't even an automatic drum rhythm. I played everything you hear manually, every banjo strum, hi hat and snare hit, clarinet, trombone etc.
So there's a problem about the density in my arrangement, and it's no wonder, I just took less than 2 hours for it playing drums, bass and banjo manually and making up all those improvisations of trumpet, trombone and clarinet. I guess I would have to thin out the arrangement especially with respect to the clarinet, it should only play short phrases whenever the trumpet has a break. I tried to to that, but it still got too dense, so the whole thing is a bit too busy at times. Additionally, as Donny says, banjo and also drums are too dominant.
My main question however was about the sound of trumpet, trombone and clarinet. I'd like some more opinions about them.

P.S.: I checked the original again. It does sound busy, too, but banjo is less dominant, and the bass is not a walking bass most of the time as I did, but a slow one playing dominant, fourth and fifth mostly. But I think I wasn't very far away from the original sound, given the little time I spent for it. Noting down all the impros of the original in written would take a whole day i guess wink


Edited by rosetree (02/09/16 03:32 PM)

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#416357 - 02/09/16 03:28 PM Re: Midnight in Moscow Dixie - Lukewarm about SN-A [Re: ]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15576
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
they sounded great, but were overshadowed by the banjo, drums, etc...

Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#416365 - 02/09/16 04:41 PM Re: Midnight in Moscow Dixie - Lukewarm about SN-A [Re: ]
124 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 2195
Well played! The trumpet and clarinet I could live with, but felt the trombone was a bit 'un mellow' - for want of a better word. Yes, the banjo was a bit too forward, but I like drums forward in a mix. A strong acoustic bass would work well, too. I'm familiar with Kenny Ball's rendition, he had a number one with it in the UK in days of yore, and you caught the feel very well. Thanks.

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#416366 - 02/09/16 04:57 PM Re: Midnight in Moscow Dixie - Lukewarm about SN-A [Re: ]
Mikem Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/14
Posts: 917
Loc: Quebec, Canada
Originally Posted By: rosetree
Originally Posted By: Mikem
I liked it! I did not know the title, but I recognized the music instantly. From what I remember, it dates back a few decades. Maybe from the 1960s. Right?

Regarding the brass and woodwind sounds, when I tried a Roland Jupiter-80 in a store, I also thought the SN-A sounds were not too realistic. The vibrato sounded synthetic. Other SN-A sounds were good, though.

In your music above, it was less noticeable because there were several instruments playing at the same time.

I always look forward to new music from you. Thanks!




Thanks! Interesting you didn't notice the artificial vibrato so much here. I'm torn, there is something about the trumpet I like very much and something I like better about a few MoXF and Ketron trumpets.



I just listened to it a couple of more times, but most of your notes are rather short, so it's hard to hear the vibrato. Add to that the fact that I'm 54 and loosing my hearing a little, and voila'!......Inability to distinguish sounds as good as I used to. Oh, and did I mention my eyes are getting worse, too? smile

The vibrato I did hear of the trumpet and some other instument sounds seemed fine. On my Motif XF, I have a trumpet called "Trumpet Vibrato" which I really like. You must have the same on your MoXF. Maybe, you'd like using it more.

The ensemble voices are lively, and they give the feeling of the original which I heard on YouTube.
_________________________
Mike

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#416368 - 02/09/16 05:19 PM Re: Midnight in Moscow Dixie - Lukewarm about SN-A [Re: Mikem]
rosetree
Unregistered


Thanks a lot, 124!

Originally Posted By: Mikem

On my Motif XF, I have a trumpet called "Trumpet Vibrato" which I really like. You must have the same on your MoXF. Maybe, you'd like using it more.


Absolutely, that's one of my favorites! I used that e.g. for my latest Bert Kaempfert tune on MoXF, Happy Trumpeter.

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