Rosetree, I didn't actually mean anything bad by saying "brainwashed". I ment it as basically how much choice we have. Are you Christian because you were born in Germany and you were thought to be Christian from day one you were born, or is it really a choice.

I said it in one other post about what makes us good or bad.
Do we choose to be good regardless what religion we are, or because it makes us feel to do selfless act toward a stranger, or are we being good because we are afraid that God will punish us for being bad?? Is it selfless or do we expect to get paid by going to heaven??
What if God comes down and tell us, or some of us that there is no way we are going to heaven?? Would we still be good??

Same as with religions. What makes me a Chirstian, or Jew,or Muslim.
That is the same as people whom you mentioned changed religion. It is just for their good. It's a profit. And those are the worst kind of people.

Yes, I became a Christian because I was born into that environment. I didn't select from 4,000 religions deliberately. Likewise, I didn't choose the culture and native language I was born into. I neither grew up dancing Brazilian samba nor eating rice for breakfast, but waiting in front of a pedestrian's red traffic light to turn green although there is no car coming ...
Religion is closely interwoven with culture.

(Brainwashing doesn't have a negative connotation? Come on...)

Every believer is a non-believer.

(Brainwashing doesn't have a negative connotation? Come on...) [/quote]

What else you want me to call it??
We are all being trained. They even train us on how and what to think too.
You know that here in North America Santa comes on Dec.25. How convinant for Christians. Kids start at a very young age. And if that is not brainwashing than what is it. You know how they say," Let's put Christ back in Christmas". We all know that pagan holiday we call Christmas was there long before Chrisk. But we still pretend like he was born on that day.

Gods Born on December 25



Chrishna, of India, born on December 25, 3228 BC, his mother was a virgin, mother�s name was Maia. The name Chrishna means Black or Dark. His uncle, Kamsa, the ruler at the time of his birth sought to kill him (Chrishna) because he had heard a Prophecy that Chrishna would overthrow him. Chrishna escaped death by being smuggled out of the area to safety (sounds like Herod and Jesus does it not?). [COMMENT: Crishna�s story and Jesus� story fit together like a hand and a glove.]

Mithra, of Persia, born on December 25, before 1500 BC, his birth was witnessed by Shepherds that brought gifts to honor him. He was styled as a Mediator between God and Man. Witness this quote from the Encyclopedia Encarta, �Mithraism was similar to Christianity in many respects, for example, in the ideals of humility and brotherly love, baptism, the rite of communion, the use of holy water, the adoration of the shepherds at Mithra�s birth, the adoption of Sundays and of December 25 (Mithra�s birthday) as holy days, and the belief in the immortality of the soul, the last judgment, and the resurrection. Mithraism differed from Christianity in the exclusion of women from its ceremonies and in its willingness to compromise with polytheism. The similarities, however, made possible the easy conversion of its followers to Christian doctrine� (�Mithraism,� Microsoft (R) Encarta. Copyright (c) 1994 Microsoft Corporation. Copyright (c) 1994 Funk & Wagnall�s Corporation).

Horus, of Egypt, born on December 25, before 2500 BC. His mother, Isis, gave birth to him in the swamp, she was warned by the god Thoth, to flee and conceal the child from the evil Set. Set had killed the father of Horus, whose name was Osiris, and sought to kill Horus, |also. Isis was able to keep Horus hidden from Set, till he (Horus) grew to manhood. Horus sought to avenge the murder of his Father, and made war against Set, and defeated him.

Buddha, of India, born on December 25, 563 BC, his mother�s name was Maya (similar to Mary) she was a virgin. He was immaculately conceived, and at birth, he announced that he was a savior to the world. His birth was�announced by a star. At his birth, he was visited by Wise Men who declared�that they had seen Signs of his birth, that is to say, signs of the royal birth�(coincidence?). [COMMENT: On the surface, it definitely looks like a coincidence. But when one considers how much of the Buddha�s teaching Jesus claimed as his own, it becomes clear that the whole Buddha story was appropriated my Jesus himself � or at least by his church.]

Beddou�(Fot), was a god of the orient born 1027 BC, his mother was a�virgin, he was born of royal blood. The king sought to kill him at birth,
because he felt the newborn infant posed a future threat to his Throne. The�god child was saved by shepherds, and lived in the desert till he reached the�age of thirty, at which time he commenced teaching his spiritual doctrine to�that religion.

Quetzalcoatl, a god of the Western Hemisphere, was born of a virgin around 900 BC. He sojourned in the wilderness, fasted forty days. Was crucified. He was variously represented as the God of light that struggled against the god of darkness called Tezcatlipoca.

Hercules, son of the god Zeus, born around 500 BC, predestined by birth to inherit the throne of Argos. Hera, the jealous wife of Zeus desired the throne for another and sought to delay the birth of Hercules, and subsequently tried to kill Hercules while in his crib, by sending two snakes to strangle him. Hercules killed the snakes, though he was less than a year old. Later, He was sent away to the countryside where he became a shepherd.

Attis, of Phrygia, born around 1200 BC, his mother was a virgin, her name was Nana. He was a shepherd, and reported to have died by self emasculation under a pine tree. He was alleged to have risen from the dead at Easter i.e. The vernal Equinox.

Tammuz, born before 2600 BC, was hailed as the only begotten son of the god Ea. His mother was a virgin, by the name of Ishtar. As an infant he was hidden in a chest by Aphrodite, the goddess of love and entrusted to Persephone, the goddess of the nether world. Persephone later opened the chest, and was so stricken by the beauty of the babe, that she refused to return the child to Aphrodite. The two goddesses fought each other for possession of the child, till finally the god Zeus mediated the matter, and declared that the child shall spend half it�s year with Aphrodite and the other half in the nether world with Persephone.

However, it is now argued by scientists that jesus was not born on dec. 25th,�in fact, not even in the winter, some time in October or fall

Answer 2

Here are just a few, all born of virgins too.

Augustus (his father was the god Apollo) Agdistis Attis
Adonis Buddha Dionysus
Korybas Krishna Mithras
Osirus Perseus Romulus and Remus
Tammuz Zoroaster Jesus

OSIRIS�� EGYPT, before 2500 BC: He came to fulfill the law. Called �KRST,� the �Anointed One.� Born of the virgin Isis-Meri on December 25th in a cave / manger, with his birth announced by a star and attended by three wise men. Earthly father named �Seb� (translates to �Joseph.�) At age 12 he was a child teacher in the Temple and at 30 he was baptized, having disappeared for 18 years. Osiris was baptized in the river Iarutana � the river Jordan � by �Anup the Baptizer,� who was beheaded. (Anup translates to John.) He performed miracles, exorcised demons, raised El-Osiris from the dead. Walked on water and was betrayed by Typhon, crucified between two thieves on the 17th day of the month of Athyr. Buried in a tomb from which he arose on the third day (19th Athyr) and was resurrected. His suffering, death, and resurrection celebrated each year by His disciples on the Vernal Equinox � Easter. Called �The Way, the Truth, the Light,� �Messiah,� �god�s Anointed Son,� the �Son of Man,� the �Word made Flesh,� the �word of truth.� Expected to reign a thousand years.

Many characteristics of Jesus, which Christians today believe in, are�undeniably similar or identical to religious trends and beliefs that preceded
Christianity. There are tens of accounts of pagan gods of many different�cultures who were said to have the same attributes as those that Christians claim Jesus had.

Trinity―Trinities were popular in pagan sects before Christianity was�introduced to the world. Some of the more well known trinity gods included
Mithra-Vohu Mana-Rashnu, Amen-Mut-Khonsu, and Osiris-Isis-Horus.

Virgin Birth―Among the pagan cultures that preceded Christianity, virgin�birth stories abounded. The long list of pagan gods born of virgins includes:�Romulus and Remus, Zoroaster, Buddha, Mithras, Chrishna, Osiris-Aion,�Agdistis, Attis, Tammuz, Adonis, Korybas, Perseus, and Dionysus.

WOW! I�ll bet that you didn�t know that so many other gods shared Jesus� birthday, did you?

The saga of Tammuz, as given above is extremely interesting, in that not only are there parallels to Jesus portrayed through his life � and those parallels existing at least 2600 years before the birth of The Jeez �, the account includes hints of two Old Testament legends. First, �As an infant he was hidden in a chest by Aphrodite, the goddess of love and entrusted to Persephone, the goddess of the nether world.� That sure sounds like Moses in the �ark� in the bullrushes to me. Second, �The two goddesses fought each other for possession of the child, till finally the god Zeus mediated the matter�.� To me, that sounds exactly like the story of Solomon deciding who the real mother of a child was by ordering the child cut in half. It is possible that the Jews appropriated both of these stories, since Tammuz lived long, long before the time of �Moses.�

As I have said above, given the antiquity of the various gods, it is presumed that they are mythical like the Greek, Roman, and Norse gods. There is hard evidence in India that Siddartha Gautama � The Buddha � actually did exist � and that he existed at least 500 years before �Jesus.� So given that, plus the advances in civilization from the time of The Buddha to the time of �Jesus,� one would logically conclude that there would be a mountain of hard evidence that Jesus actually existed and the date on which he was actually born. However, no such mountain exists. Writers of secular history contemporary to the time that �Jesus� was supposed to have lived do not mention him at all. At least I have never found any evidence that they make any reference to him, and I have looked long and hard. Only Josephus, the Jewish historian, mentions him at all. He makes two references. One of them is rather incidental and is considered to be legitimate, and the other one � the Testimonium Flavium � is considered to be fictional and not the work of Josephus. So it is not really that improper to consider �Jesus� to be a mythological person like the Norse god Odin, the Greek god Zeus, or the Roman god Jupiter.

I have documented in earlier Solus Christus diaries my walk away from Jesus Christ and the reasons for that decision, so I need not rehearse them here. So I face a quandry: Whose birthday should I celebrate this season if I choose to celebrate a birthday? There are a lot of possibilities: Horus, Osiris, Hercules, Dionysus, Crishna, The Buddha, Mithra, Tammuz, Attis, Quetzalcoatl �

Hey, there you go! I will celebrate Quetzalcoatl�s birthday! There is just as much legitimate evidence for his existence as there is for �Jesus.'� And he is indigenous to the Western Hemisphere; he existed in Mexico, as I recall. Thank goodness THAT dilemma is solved!

Happy birthday, Quetzalcoatl!!

Anyway, you all have a Happy Holiday season. And Season�s Greetings to you.

I think most people use the term brainwashing for more dangerous things (extremists, intelligence) connected to violence instead of raising children telling them stories about Santa Claus. Children are told all kinds of nice stories either religious or not, fairy-tales and myths, bacause they like it, it doesn't harm them in all cases (unless it includes values that go against common ethic values such as gender inequality etc). I don't see where the idea of Christmas plants violence into children's minds. Yes, Christmas was shifted to a time that had been a pagan holiday too. What's the big problem about that? Does the shift of the date make the basic idea obsolete?
May atheists celebrate either nothing or the lowest point of the sun (within the northern hemisphere) instead of Christmas on Dec24, I don't care. We as adults have the freedom of choice, or would you like to define churches as illegal institutions in the Canadian constitution?

Well , what I would like is for all religions institutions to start paying taxes and stop laundering money.And when I see some of the churches or some of the mosques , I think Jesus or Muhammed would have rather use that money to feed the poor.

If that's all, that's a criticism I largely share.