Hello Technics lovers

Just to tell you that after Ketron, Yamaha, Roland and Korg....

I have almost added the Technics KN7000 style format to vArranger !

Styles are still interesting even if they are 15 years old

Still a bit of work to complete....

Sounds great!
15 years young, almost ready to be mentioned as "Evergreens"....

Wow Dan
that is brilliant.
Might get some use out of those old styles I collected over so many years, yet.
Just hoping I've still got them saved somewhere.

Lovely news Dan. Will there also be a technics soundset?

And how is your project for Ketron audio styles support comming along?

Yes probably a technics soundset, but I need to find a technics keyboard

Yes audio styles are on the way too...

Good news Dan..

and to find a Technics instrument, this could be the right place... i think quite a few memebers never could say farewell to their beloved technics arrangers...

KN7000 styles has 8 fill ins
Styles have their charm and are almost gm compatibles

Thats huge... 8 fillls... Very nice for keeping a style dynamic and less static.
Never played a Technics...


Whenever you add a style modeling feature to the Varranger, you could give people this freedom... If you ever to add such a think, because your todo list seems to be getting longer and longer with every feature you add..


I am surprised some of the bigger European Organ companies like Wersi, Bohm and Bemore havent been adding a registered version of Varranger as an option to their Organs... Both Bohm and Wersi lag when it comes to auto arrangments...

This is my forth Kn7000; I sold the last three. Kinda double minded? Not really; more like hearing my old Kn7 recordings in the car and my home and wanting those great big band sounds. I think they are the best. The trumpet is my favorite.

But --- I cannot play on-the-fly or program two different keyboards without some confusion and hesitation. When I am playing a song I just want to think notes, chords and feeling. Jump to a variation or add a pad, or mute the accompaniment with very little thought.

I have no problem working with my Pa900 and a KMA; but Technics and Korg think differently. Then add where are the best styles for this song on each keyboard.

I am not the type that wishes to play right-out-of-the-box. So I have decided to sell the Kn7000. It’s gonna be hard – it even looks pretty

I am also going to posting a reward for anyone who catches me buying another Kn7.
.
If you know of anyone who has interest in the keyboard please let me know. They can email me for price and pictures.

John C.

John ... you WILL be back ! a 'techie' for once, is a 'techie' for LIFE !!!

aaaaaah, stop that Tony. (grin)

John C.

Love the 5k.....hatef the 6,7.....especially the sunken keybed

Hi Dan
If I remember correctly, we used to be able to save midifiles with the Gm sounds, but it's a long time ago , so memory could be faulty. They didn't as good as with the original sounds, but more than adequate.

It did have amazing note transposition setting. Only 1 track for all the chord types, yet it could play some very melodic? ( not sure that 's the correct term) type phrases in the variations.
Wish I'd understood it better when I owned it..

Anyway brilliant news. Must check back into your forum. Appears a lot has been happening in the last year or so whilst I was missing in action. Haha

Rikki, I would take a midi file turn it into a technics file and then create a user drum track for the midi file; they only had room for one user drum track – the end product was one good sounding midi file.

One big advantage --- you could play the midi file in any of the styles/rhythms in the keyboard. Stardust could be a cha cha , or a big band swing or a disco if you wish.

Wow, this brings back many memories.

John C.

I've got three Technics KN7000 keyboards at home at the moment...don't ask why - its just too complicated...

Hi John,
Doesn't it just.
One can only dream where they'd be at, 12 years down the track.
( you know you can do some pretty amazing things with that korg of yours)

I remember one beautiful sunny morning, I'd just gotten up from my kn7 to grab a glass water. I was looking out the window and I noticed this 12 ft gum tree branch hit our power line.
Ran back to my kn7, too late, the display screen was dimming. Power was fading out, , so was my keyboard. Long 3 hour wait till they restored power, kn appeared to be dead as a Dodo.
Thank goodness for the technics forum. I mentioned it, and Alec or Alex? ( technics player) GENIIOUS that he was, got back to me with this monumental list of instructions on how to reboot it. Couldn't beleive it, it worked.
The power outage managed to fry the TV set , video player and Foxtel box, but the keyboard lived on. Haha.
Built like a proverbial tank.

never owned a technics, but allways had the feeling the styles on the KN series where more then just playing different midi sequences with each variation...

Hard to use words to explain a feeling.

The styles and instrument sounds and amplification worked together to produce big band music I have not heard on any other keyboard. That is the value of the Kn7000 in my opinion.
O
ther keyboards have done a good job creating big band but fall short. My example: A jazz band of today with the same instrumentation and music charts of old big band music also falls short. You cannot duplicate the feeling of the older musicians with today’s musicians.

Is the kN7000 good for contemporary music? No, it falls short. (My opinion)

I have always felt that the roots of the Kn7000 came from the Wersi Organ; also a winner in many areas.

John C.

Hi Bachus,
I tend to think you really missed out on something special.
In their day, they were in a league of their own.
Innovation , as much as anything.
Sd card storage for the kn7. Didn't even know what an sd card was, I think we were buying them with 2 to 8 megs of memory, because the technology was so new.
Kn5000 had style conversion disk , you could convert styles from other keyboards.
Technics, can't remember when it was introduced but fairly early, basically "dial a style" you could put styles together by mixing and matching onboard style tracks. Really easyto use.
List goes on.

Yes, i know...

But in those days i was really big into general Music, WX2 and SK880, i preferred the sound of the GEM over the Technics... Many fun moments and memmories from that time...

Tough i think General Music was a typical European thing.. Tough i think currently Ketron is brininging some of that innovation and warm sound back into arrangers...

Same guy, earlier board - kn6000 ... the only problem with this board was the VH was useless ...

Hi
Bigband, Jazz/Swing Broadway/Movie,,that's where it shone for me.
I think maybe they try and make the Bigband /swing styles too complex on today's keyboards. The sounds themselves I would have thought, should be better?
BUT?

Hopefully I can get just the odd kn style back by using Dan's software to create the midifile I need for my korg conversions. Worked with a couple of Ketron
swing styles I really wanted .

The sound of the Kn 7ooo was so clear that it was thin at times; unlike Yamaha and Korg. The built in EQ was not very helpful.

There was two button for the sound arranger on the Kn7 which aloud you to change every instrument the instruments in every factory style. One push and the instruments in the style changed. All changes made were saved. I created a user drum and some stronger basses which made the styles sound heaver.

The sound I got when I played the Kn7000 through my Bose was fantastic. The trumpet sound was my favorite.

Why did I move to Yamaha and then to Korg.

1- Have the latest Technology.
2-They were better for contemporary music.

I must be careful or I’ll end up like Roger with three Kn 7000 keyboards.

John C.

Rikki, I have the factory styles for the Kn2000 up to the Kn7000 (New styles) on a CD that came with the book “Getting the most from your Kn7000”. Would that help.

John C.

Hi All,

I've been working hard with Dan on implementing and testing Technics support in vArranger and he is doing a fantastic job!

Technics keyboards are very much alive in that there are hundreds of thousands of them still in use. My website has almost 5500 members (I only launched just over two years ago having planned it for decades) and is growing strongly. Neil Blake at Strawberry Music is also a strong supporter of Technics instruments.

Neil owns the copyright of the book and CDs mentioned (we're collaborating on a new version of the book) and I have just spent the last 12 hours programming styles for KN6000. So, support for these instruments is still going strong.

One thing I would be really disappointed to see would be the sharing of commercially available copyrighted styles, or the ones that I've spent hundreds of hours working on that are unique to my websites. This would in fact be the only thing that would cause me to stop supporting Technics instruments because it would change my websites from a position where costs are almost covered annually to a loss making situation that I couldn't personally sustain. I would hope that if you want my styles you'll join my website.

It is brilliant that vArranger will support Technics files and I know Dan will tell you himself how much I've helped with that because I've been sending him information that jd5live and I have spent years putting together and I'll also be sending him a keyboard later in the year so that he can enhance Technics support.

So, I'm absolutely up for sharing information and appropriate files. Just if you want to share Styles then please do the conversions yourself, or make new Technics Styles yourself, or find Styles that are freely available on sites that are explicitly making such Styles legally available for the purpose of sharing (such as Gunnar Jonny's which I now host or Willum's Website or here on Synthzone in the Technics area). Or share Styles that have been completely abandoned by their makers. Otherwise, it will become soul-destroying for those of us who spend all of our spare time working on such things or those such as Neil who make a living from it... or indeed Dan who sells vArranger.

This post expresses purely my opinion. Nothing personal here, I'm just saying. Quite frequently I buy a Technics keyboard just so that I can convert the Styles and make them available for other models. This takes many months per instrument. Whilst I realise that I don't 'own' those converted Styles, there would be little point in me putting the knowledge, skill, time and effort into all of that if I can't recover the cost of running my website too. Well, otherwise I would either not do it or I would just work on Styles that I personally enjoy and share them with a couple of friends.

Hopefully I haven't put a downer on this conversation, which is very close to my heart. I'll also add that I will be sharing some Styles on the vArranger website and adding a vArranger section to my website that will include many vArranger-Technics specific Styles along with other files, help and information.

Long live Technics

Best wishes,
Mike

Hi John,
I think I bought every single style disk tech note ever produced, up till about 2004,
including the Americana series. ( they were great) . A lot of the styles I never used, but it was fun collecting them. haha.
Most of those I know I still have because ,In a salvage effort a few years back, I transferred them from floppy to cd after I realised the floppy disks were becoming faulty and losing data.
I'm fairly certain I kept all my factory styles for all my keyboards from the kn2 up. Just have to go back thru my old cd roms.
If memory serves me correctly, didn't technics also have all their prior factory styles available for download on their website back then? I remember their website was very helpful?

Anyway, going to be great to try them all out again on varranger. There's only a half a dozen or so, that I really ,really , missed, and fortunately I still have those. They are the one's I can hopefully get back (for my korg) by using Dan's software and converting them.
The hours involved converting from a midifile, I really only do the odd special one that I want.

Are you looking thru kn7000 for sale ads , yet. Haha

Just a little tip, dont keep your important data only on CD, self created CD's dont have an eternal,lifespan either, after 10 years the glue between the layers starts to disolve...

Make sure you have importnat data saved in atleast 3 places...
1) your hard disk
2) a backup medium like a CD-rom or an external HD or professional tape..
3) in the cloud, outside of your physicall home, so your important data is safe from fire and burglary

Just a little sidestep, and well meant advise... But a goodback strategy is important for your precious data, not only irreplacable styles and midi files, but even more so precious pictures of fammily members or you tax and administration numbers...


I have met to many sad people that lost important data because after some time CDs stopped functioning, and there is no way to recover that data. Espescially in warm countries with high humidity like the tropics, this process speeds up.

Most people dont yer realise this

I must be dim Mike...but having looked at the vArranger web site I am utterly baffled by what it is offering.
It appears to be something to do with rhythms for linking (presumably) to keyboards in some way or perhaps not.
Might I suggest to whoever is in charge of vArranger that they have a complete rethink about communicating very simply what their offering is - and on the home page...particularly as whatever it is costs 349 euros.
And that's me a professional arranger keyboard player for the past 20 years. So if they're not getting through to me who are they getting through to...as they say - rant over.

Hi Roger , you have cheered me up !! I thought I was the only one who could not make much sense of it all

For those that don't grasp the concept of a soft synth that is not only comprehensive in sounds and features, but also can use styles and sounds from several manufacturers, I can see that it may seem daunting. The truth of the matter is that I bought Dan's program years ago in it's infancy, and he has been building on it ever since. Check out Dan's forum to find out what hundreds of users think before dismissing it as trash.

Bernie

Thank you Bachus,
must admit it hadn't really occurred to me my cd/DVD roms probably would fail too, eventually.
Have got some of the files on USB sticks, but probably not all of them. Never thought I'd get to use the KN files again ( gave up trying to convert them with EMC ) so never really gave them much thought till now.
So thank you, I''ll backup those disks.

Yes, I was one of those heartbroken people. I had about 300 floppy disks with all my styles safely stored away, ( back in 2000). Took a couple of years off ( keyboard free zone)
along came kn7000, out came the disks. More than half were corrupted. Some totally useless , dome only partially. Fortunately my disks were backed up at least 2 to 3 times , so between them I managed to save most of the files, A composer file from one disk and the matching sounds from another. Nightmare. Took weeks.

So, point taken.

My current keyboard files, I do numerous duplicates on seperate use sticks and hard drives. I actually had a 3 month old USB hard drive fail. Not impressed.

Thanks Bavhus.

rikki
I learned the hard way. After I lost my hard drive due to mechanical errors, I wound up buying a 4 Terabyte internal and a 4 Terabyte external and now backup my internal to the external daily..........

Ron

Hi Roger , you have cheered me up !! I thought I was the only one who could not make much sense of it all

John C.

Hi Guys
Sorry, it's probably me. In my enthusiasm for getting access to technics styles again, I probably complicated things.

Reason I initially bought varranger was, I had a beautiful old top of the line Yamaha midi piano, but it didn't have arranger functions, it's just a straight piano.
Selling it, would have been difficult and would not have gotten much for it anyway.
I wanted arranger functions, so I midied my keyboards to it, It's pretty difficult to press variation buttons etc on a keyboard unless I had the keyboard sitting on top of the piano.
Very messy. Quickly gave up on that idea.

So I looked into software arrangers. Started off with One Man Band which allowed me to play PSR styles.

Then Dan mentioned he was developing vArranger, which would play Ketron styles. I had previously owned a Ketron sd1 , so thought great, might be worth a look at.

I had my piano midied to a laptop which ran varranger software (basically the operating system , where I loaded the styles, chose the sounds, chose the fills variations etc)
I also had a little Ketron sd2 sound module to supply the sounds for the styles and melody.
I ran an audio out from the sd2 to the piano for amplification.

I now had an arranger piano without having some bulky keyboard sitting on top of it.
Just the piano, with laptop and the tiny little sd2 module.

Dan has since added the ability to play Roland , Yamaha and Korg styles , and soon apparently Technics styles.

Ok, so we've probably had Roland , Korg & Ketron styles for our Yamaha keyboards, not the same thing, these styles were converted to Yamaha format ( I 've come across some very mixed results) whereas varranger actually loads an original Yamaha or Ketron etc style.

Hopefully the above doesn't make it clear as mud. Haha

Hi Ron ,
That must have been a nightmare.

Hi Roger,
Basically that screen shot is the main page of the software.
It!s sort of the equivalent of the screen on your kn7 ('s, brilliant that you still luv it so much you've got 3 )

You pick your sounds , styles , variations etc on this screen.

Sort of like having an arranger keyboard module inside your laptop and you connect an external keybed , or accordion , plus a speaker system .
And your not limited to it playing styles from one manufacturer, currently it plays all 4.

Midi things together....aaaah.
Trying to midi my KN7000 to a Korg micro arranger....hopeless.
No - on the home page of a web site you clearly explain what the thing you are selling does and how it does it. Otherwise numpties like me just walk away.
Thanks Rikki for doing what the guy that runs the business should have done.

Despite "That Guy" (his name is Dan) not having the best website... Or sharing much information about future development and new patches..


"That Guy" allways answers all user questions in a day when asked on the Varranger forums. "That Guy" is definately not a webhoster, but "That Guy" is definately a great programmer that keeps adding new feautures to the Varranger while updates are free, and on top of that gives great service to his customers.


Its just a small one man company, in France, so the main website is in French... did you try to read that? This man puts his effort in creating a better product, and not in advertising it, and thats something i can really really admire... and in the end, a good product will seel itselves even witouth a great website to advertise it.

I wish the main companies would put more money in development and less in expensive websites and advertisements.

]Thanks for your help Rikki , As you know I've always been a technics boy !! gigged 20 plus years with the smac1200 module and my midi accordion !I owned 2 kn7000 keyboards piles of software ,planned to gig with the kn7000 but all too heavy once put into a flight case etc . a few yrs ago a friend converted a psr3000 keyboard into a sort of module by removing keys and speakers and cutting the unit down in size and weight and putting into a flight case c/w with my musictech midi receiver and also sienhieser mic receiver .all I have to do at a gig is plug in the power lead and connect the speaker leads to speakers and I'm away performing with my midi accordion .

Really reliable easy to use ,with good sounds and styles .

So using the Varranger and being able to use styles from Yamaha range (I assume it will play Tyros 5 ?)including ethereal sounds/styles ?)and also all the roland ,korg and TECNICS styles is of great interest to me .

I notice that a number of you list the V Arranger on your list of musical instruments owned ,

Is there anyone on the forum that actually does live gigs with the V arranger .

if so please tell us what you are using .

please note I'm really interested in this concept in seems to have great potential

As I would need something quick and user friendly and also rock solid and reliable

Hi Guys, I am convinced now after reading all these posts my KN7 is finally a keeper. (unless Rikki wants a new home for her old Korg at "mates rates"), haha.
After watching the u-tube clip I am more enthused again to appreciate what I have got, plus, at 82, i have no time to spend on a new OS, no doubt as good as it is.

Ray

Can't say I disagree with any of that Bachus but the basics of effective communication still play a big part.
Bernie I wasn't trashing the product if you are refering to me...just trying to get some clarification about what it does and how, as it was being commended by folk.

Hi Ray
you calling my wonderful pa4x OLD. I'd have to think on that one. Haha

Quote: Bernie I wasn't trashing the product if you are refering to me...just trying to get some clarification about what it does and how, as it was being commended by folk.

Sorry Rog
It was a knee jerk reaction in defense of Dan for the reasons Bachus mentioned.

I have been gigging for 50 years and learn something new everyday. I have performed many times with vArranger, a win7 tablet, SD2 module, and an Axiom master keyboard. All light weight and rock solid performance. Now, the learning part for me is to use the sounds from the program instead of a module. There is a manual on the website that discusses every step with pictures. I have to admit that I should learn this, and Dan is always right there to help.
In it's basic form, you need a computer(any Windows), a midi keyboard to transmit, not only note on messages, but control messages. In other words keys are assigned to volume, sound selection very easily if you have assignable midi transmitting keys to do so. With a master keyboard, it is simple, or use a keypad.

You must have a decent sound source with internal sources like Dan's, your own Vsti's, soundfonts, or a module. That's it.

The advantages are non obsolescence, choice of manufacturer's styles, light weight, very stable.

The only disadvantage is a modular setup compared to a self contained keyboard, but the flexibilitty outweighs this IMO.

I didn't intend to go on like this, however....

Hi Bernie , thank you for taking the time and trouble to explain things about the v arranger , it is a very interesting concept that I need to look into and also get much more information to see if it would work for me ,
once again thank you, it is most appreciated .

ps can you use foot pedals to advance such things as registration changes intro/ending /fills etc !!

Bernie, I have to say that I'm intrigued by the flexibility of this system, but it just seems to be too many bits and pieces and hookups for the day to day gigging environment of setups and teardowns. It looks great for a bedroom studio setup, though.

Giovanni

I am not Dan, but happy you have gotten a little insight in a general way. As far as pedals are concerned, the answer is(a qualified) yes. All operations are executed via touchscreen,midi sustain or volume pedal, or , for that matter, most anything that sends a midi signal. The program has an accurate "Learn" system, whereas you go to the "Controller" screen and choose a parameter then press a computer keyboard key,a master keyboard button, or depress a pedal. This links the two together, very simple. You don't have to mess with CC numbers. One thing to keep in mind is that Dan is continuously working to improve the sounds of different companies, but not all sounds of all keyboards are finalized. You mentioned Tyros 5 etherial. You would have to ask Dan what he has ready.

My setup time is about 15 minutes, but still a bit longer that plunking down a keyboard. It depends on the player as to what he wants.
Bernie

Bernie , once again THANK YOU for your help .
I was worried about messing about with CC numbers all too much for me .
Yes I would want it all set up in a flight gig box type of thing good to go .....with a very short set up time ,I do not want to keep connecting all the stuff up and strip down after a gig ...and faffing about setting midi wires /channels etc .

Yes I know my module has spoilt me !!!it is so easy and quick ,but that's how it has to be for me now !!...I'll keep getting info ....once again thank you .

Hi Bernie,
Brilliant answer, happy to see you were able to explain much more fully about
Varranger than I could especially about the gigging aspects.

I'm looking forward to getting mine set up again, a lot has happened in the many months I was away from my keyboards.

I know you know this, but go to the forum and you will see the thread for ver 1.17(?). Ask Dan to send you the link for the latest.

Thanks Bernie
Will do.

Many thanks Bernie as always. My KN7000 is still going strong for your interest, and I have two spares chuckle.

Hi Rog

Always good to hear from you. I remember well the fun we had at the Florida Technics Jam.
Bernie

Now vArranger can play KN7000 and KN6000 styles CMP and CST format

Rikki sent me some Technics styles from her cd rom backup. wow they sound great for a 15 years old keyboard

Almost ready....

Hi Dan,
That's brilliant. I'm glad to see you got those cst's working as well as the composer files (cmp). It's all happening.
Maybe now you can understand why there were so many technics tragics when they stopped making the keyboard, imagine how good they'd be now if they kept developing them . haha
Thanks Dan