I was in the middle of a post, and it dissapared?? I must have pushed something. I hope this is not #2.

I am not interested in talking about the quility of the volcalizer in the Technics keyboard, I only wish to understand, to satisfy my curiosity, to put the subject away with a little logic.

My Question----
I know that a company that can produce a keyboard like the KN 7000 can create a volcalizer that would more than satisfy our needs, so why have they chosen not to do so?

There has to be a reason, the company chose not to do it why?

The reason will not cure the vocalizer problem, but their reason might put it to rest.

Is there a place that could/would gvie me this answer?

????? John C.

Hi,
I think there aim is to make a good keyboard.
(rahter)Easy to play and good voices. And even that is difficult with so many people who like different styles, better piano's, better violins. Home players, pro players, occasional player etc. etc.

So a vocalizer is maybe for some pro players or those who (think)they can sing.
And maybe a very important thing. The price of a keyboard.

rgds.
Willem

[This message has been edited by waterschip (edited 09-29-2003).]

I'm sure it's not a price issue. Technics keyboards are priced right with the rest of the pack...it's the dealers who gouge the customers with high prices. The actual dealer cost of a kn7k is about in line with a Tyros or a PA80. They just have no established list price, so the dealers play games with the numbers. It's not fair, but they must be happy. Lots of loyal fans .... even at the exagerated prices.

I seem to remember that Alec (technicsplayer) posted on this subject and mentioned something about patent problems with respect to Digitech, who manufacture the well known 'Vocaliser' unit.
A search found this : http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum25/HTML/000785.html


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Willum

This was posted.
So a vocalizer is maybe for some pro players or those who (think)they can sing.
And maybe a very important thing. The price of a keyboard.

Ouch, why the word think? I have seen and heard many piano players sit in their homes and play and sing. I have seen many pros do the same thing. I myself sing and play well enough to have suported a family of six. And, just yesterday, I played while my wife took the microphone which was pluged into the Tyros, and sang.There is enough of a need/desire.

So it's not the need or desire, nor do I feel it's the weight or the money, what is it.
These Technics are not without a great deal of knowledge, they must have a reason.

Looking for an answer I can accept, John C.

[This message has been edited by bruno123 (edited 09-29-2003).]

Accept this answer:
Chocolate and Vanilla.
There is no way that any one manufacturer will ever get it right for ALL users. Maybe they think that adding a somewhat functional harmonizer is better than none at all. Maybe if enough singers speak up (sing up?)... they will come on board and do it better, but to look for truth in a retail world is a fantasy, my friend. If it makes money ...... they will keep on selling it as is.
Treat it as what it IS:
A very good keyboard with some not-so-good added features. (Like all the rest)

eg:

Yamaha: Poor GM midi playback, and cheezy, small keys on psr line
Roland: virtually no entry in the high end market of today.
Ketron: poor allocation of polyphony
Korg: drum fills that sound like a new drummer sat in just for the fills
Technics: lackluster harmonizer
Casio: Still running to catch up to the pack. They started the whole thing, but stayed in the rear 9and the department stores)
Farfisa: good ideas, but missed the boat with function. Shoulda stuck to organs
Gem: no world wide acceptance. US Market has very little exposure to this line

Did I miss anyone's favorite brand?

Uncle Dave, I do appreciate your view, I think it's a good one.
Mine is a personal inquisitive question.
IMO, from reading this post, they would sell more keyboards with a good volz. I have a Studio Digitech vocalizer, so I do not have a problem with the KN7000.

I do accept what you're saying about enjoying and being happy, that's where it's at.---
But, I do have an inquisitive nature, it's part of my thinking, to make logic of things.
I have not lost any sleep over it, I'm just searching, I feel that's healthy, why not have the knowledge.

Uncle Dave, Life is good, no it's great.
Thanks for your reply, John C.

Hi,
maybe if they made a top quality vocalizer optional instead of including one that's apparently is not really suitable for professional use.
Maybe players requiring a vocalizer wouldn't baulk at the additional cost, for the added convenience of having an all in one unit.

If it was removeable ( like the expansion boards) and able to be used again in the latest model, that would be better still.

Probably not a feasible suggestion, but one never knows.

Some of us paid a fortune for the convenience of having an optional hard drive.
( me not included, I used to be happy with the floppies, as it was only for home use).

best wishes
rikki

This is a quote from one of Alec's earlier posts...
"I know the yamaha vocalisers are good, but you must admit not as good as an external unit. To do the job properly you have to pay the licence fee for the chip, which yamaha do, rather than just use a dsp which is what technics have done. I suppose each makes a decision based on what their market thinks important. Technics attitude is probably that if you want the job done properly, hook up a digitech, we'll spend the money on sounds/screen/operating system, the things that our market go for?"

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Willum

That's absolutely right! If Technics were to include programming to make my singing voice acceptable, the keyboards would cost as much as a new car. It would be cheaper to hire a vocalist. And, as I'm sitting here listening to the Eldorados (Lindoz & his partner), I fully understand what I will never be, even with all the electronics available: a singer.

John C., I’m really surprised at you. You say you know that a company that can produce a keyboard like the KN 7000 can create a vocalizer that would more than satisfy our needs, so why have they chosen not to do so? You say your not interested in talking about the quality of the vocalizer in the Technics keyboard, I only wish to understand, to satisfy my curiosity, to put the subject away with a little logic. There has to be a reason, the company chose not to do it why? Is there a place that could/would give me this answer?

John, i’m not too smart but I have found that the company that makes the product usually knows why they choose to do the things they do and would certainly know the answer. Why not ask? Call them! Why not send them a letter. An E-mail would be quick. Us guys only use em and don’t make em. You only get crap from the tale end so why ask us, go to the top end. That’s where you will find the brains of the outfit.

You say the reason will not cure the vocalizer problem. Good thinking John. R&D would be more logical. Now you say knowing their reason might put it to rest. Now John, come on. You know how much fun you just had digging it up again. Also do you want to spoil all the fun of some of the other guys too, who like to dig up the trash. Be considerate of these folks for instance like Uncle Dave who salivates when he hears vocalizer and KN in the same sentence and never fails to contribute. Putting it to rest is not too popular it seems to me. Besides if they ever fixed it there would always be a scramble to find something else. Sorry Dave but it was too much fun.

Grandpa Doug

Good thought UD, Higher up, call/write the company. Sometimes I get to invloved to think clearly.

Thanks, John C.

Oh Johnny, Oh Johnny how you can . . . . . .
UD is the Chocolate and Vanilla guy. GD is the good thought guy.

Grandpa Doug

UD is just the answer guy. Sometimes they are even the right answer !

Maybe Doug has a point. I do tend to perk up when I hear talk of areas that are particularly offensive to my ears, and yet still get lots of attention from less educated buyers. Harmony is not for everyone, but for everyone that USES it ..... it's a waste to buy a substandard product, because you'll only have to get a better one anyway.

I treat this place as an extension of my old retail shop, where people came for answers and recommendations about the best gear for a particular job. I thrive on the hunt, and I enjoy passing on helpful info about tools that make life easier and more pleasant to listen to.
So Sue me.
I hate the mic section on the kn series.
I hate the keys on the psr series.
I hate the polyphony allocation on the Ketron stuff.

I also LOVE the sounds on all of the above products, and each - in their own way - has features that are truly wonderful. I just like to lay all my cards on the table at once. No guess work. No bluffing. Deal the cards, and play the hand.
Whenever I chime in redundantly, it's because I am trying to help someone avoid a mistake again. Again.