Not sure whether I came across it here or elsewhere. Anyhow I thought that the piano sound, at least in the demo, was not bad at all and considering all the other extras and the very low price I have ordered one on trial. Expected delivery in about four weeks time. There are three demos from the Messe. They are in Italian but if you move on to approx 3.20 minutes the music starts. Specifications can also easily be found, see second link.Wonder what your thoughts are on this little contraption....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ThiAZDws7s

http://www.studiologic-music.com/products/numa_compact2/

regards,
John

Jhon indeed very good instrument for these price.

enjoy

dud

Donny,

I was trying to figure out which one is used in this video cause to my ears it sounds better than the numa 2 that I have ordered. Having perused the internet etc. I think that the one in this video is the predecessor of the numa 2 simply called the Numa, and was retailing at approx. 300 pounds sterling !!!!

For those interested, here are links to sound demos of the original Numa ( as in the video) and the new Numa 2

http://studiologic-music.com/products/numa_compact/
(scroll down for demos)
NUMA 2:
http://www.studiologic-music.com/products/numa_compact2/

regards,
John

John good luck in whatever piano you choose

All thos italian companies have great sounding instruments....

- viscount
- studiologic
- physis
- crumar/gsi
- ketron
- dexibell
- korg/italy

Thats quite a lot of keyboard companies for a country... and i probably forgot one or two more...


Studiologic has a good soundquallityfor their price range.... i dont think you can go wrong.. altough buildquallity sometimes is an issue with their lowest price contenders..

If I was going to get a digital piano it would be hard to not take a hard look at the Roland RD-2000
It sounds amazing!....

different ballgame Donny, 2500 euros versus 450 euros !!!!

regards
John

Donny,

Just so happens I went to demo an RD2000 this afternoon WHOA is all I can say, I was very impressed with it!

of ciourse Steve....you get what you pay for.......

Kurzweil has great instruments... i am using an old pc3x (which essentially is the same as the pc3a8 witouth sample memmory) as my mainstage controller, the onboard VAST synthesis is incredible flexible .. and in the same form still used in todays current model Forte...

But what makes the pc3x such a strong keyboard is the number of assignable controllers.. wheels, buttons, aftertouch, ribbon comtroller(incredible versatile) and breath controller connection.. for a 10 year old instrument the sounds are okay, and to me the fatar keybed is acceptable (action) but all those controll options make it a very nice mainstage controller...

A used Kurzweil Pc3X can be bought just under €1000 here in Holland.. it offers a lot of bang for the buck... altough, its not an option in this case as its quite heavy... and John is looking for a light mobile controller..

best of both worlds..

Wish it was the "best" of both worlds...

But current day stagepiano/attanger workstations all combine a low end stage piano with a low end arranger...

The korg havian 30 is build on a pa300 arranger
Yamaha dgx 660 combines yamahas lowest tier p45 with a psr 400 series arranger
Casio px 360/560 arranger part is not even worth mentioning
Same goes for the pa500, far from high end arranger, where they added a better piano sound and 88 keys

So far the only company delivering on this was the GEM sk880 which 20 years ago indeed was the best of both worlds (stage piano/synth/arranger)

If you want "almost" the best of both worlds, then there only is the yamaha CVP 709, but thats not a portable version... however, if yamaha would make a stage piano version of the CVP709 follow up, now that would be interesting..

If you. Urrently want best of both worlds... you should go stagepiano+arranger module+laptop. With only Ketron SD40 being a viable choice as the arranger module...

Just a small correction as regards my interest in the Studiologic. I am not looking for a cheap MIDI controller but rather for a budget replacement/addition in the field of piano sounds. At present I have the PA800 and ketron SD1plus as well as the old Yamaha P80 stage piano. The latter has (for me ) a phenomenal keyboard action and strangely the sound thru my simple small Creative T10 speakers is also impressive. Unfortunately once you start recording the sound it loses out big time. I have just finished completing a full CD only playing the Yamaha P80 ( as a beginner really as I set out to play the piano in 2015) and am pleased with the result though in all fairness the result would have been better of course had I been able to record all that with the high end pianos mentioned in this thread. By the time I can afford to splash out a wack of money for a decent stage piano I will definitely bear in mind the Roland RD2000, as well as the Yamahas such as the CP40 and CP4 and of course the Nord.
Incidentally I just uploaded my piano CD for a friend of mine so if any are you are curious what a beginner at the age of 65 with a piano with a sample memory of 13 Mb ( yes megabyte!!!) can sound like, feel free. ( CD covers with content included):

https://wetransfer.com/downloads/2dcb416...14091542/5ed5fd

regards,
John Smies

My guess for the best of both worlds would be the FP90 with a BK7M module or maybe module from Kentron. If you need more editing, midi zones, etc then the 2000 with a module would be a great setup.
I agree that when the manufactuers come up with a hybrid they don't put the best they have in the keyboards.

its a good setup for sure... however, the bk7m is getting old soundwise compared to for example the Ketron SD40

The FP90, is less suited as a midi controller then the Roland RD2000... and people seem to forget about the Montage 8, that can do anything the RD2000 can but also comes with a huge amount of other realtime performance tools..

however even tough the Montage 8 has superb action, it still falls short of the Roland action..

I recently bought a Yamaha P-255 stage piano, and I LOVE it. It's mostly for the dueling Piano Shows, but I like having it in my studio for quick inspiration. There's a WAY cool app that lets you customize it well beyond the panel limitations, and the on board speakers are fantastic. It's manageable for transit (38lbs), has dedicated line outs, and aux in, plus a usb music player. On board drums are limited (10 patterns) but useable, and 3 LH bass options - all great.
I played everything out there before settling on this one. The Kawai ES100 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ft47x20F9cg was a close second, but had a wimpy sound and lighter, less accurate key feel.
The Yamaha P-115 was really nice, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxDsTNbK2HE, and a little lighter, but the key feel and sound system were lacking. Also misses the app connection and music player.
The Roland FP30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDjokwNhu4c was also in the running, but based on key touch, sound system, and versatility - I went with the higher end piece.
The $500-!500 pianos all seem to have noisy keys to me - the P255 has the quietest ones, which is important if you record vocals and pianos at the same time. My mic picks up all the key noise, so I wanted minimal sound.
Just more thoughts for your think tank!

BK7 had all the lead sounds I wanted. Very good guitars, horns, organs, sax and drums. Piano o.k.
I liked it a lot, but too much plugging in and setting up, with laptop, controller keyboard, external screen, vocalizer, mixer all essential to what I was doing.

[video:youtube]https://youtu.be/kZ7mC4eoaX0[/video]

Dave,

As you can see in the video, see link below, I already had the P255 for a short while. I do agree it is a nice piano but I was not as enthusiastic about it as you seem to be. Particulary the internal speakers, though loud enough , did not wet my appetite.
For use at home you should try and connect a set of Creative T10 ( very cheap really) and then already you will hear a lot of difference. As to gigging I have no idea.
Tomorrow , unexepectedly , I have to go and see a Yamaha CP5 which is on sale at close distance from where I live. I am sure Bachus will fill me in on the merits of it !!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ohq_Td-3q8

regards,
John

Got it, John! I must've missed that bit of info. I play on headphones a lot, or through a system, so I'm averaging the sound I get from all sources. Mostly, I love how the app makes it more customizable, and so easy!

The setting up of two units is the drawback but if you want the ultimate I guess you have to sacrifice something. As for the BK7M sounding old I really don't understand. How much better do you need for gigs? People don't listen that intently and my BK9 (same sounds) is doing a great job.
Chasing the next best thing has gotten real old for me after all these years of playing.

About the CP5

Well, sometimes it happens that a new product cant keep up with its predecessor.. this happened with the move from CP5 to the latest CP4..

Both are build on the same SCM technollogy which is a combination of sampling and physical moddeling.. and the CP4 has one more grand piano... and some more other sounds... but the CP5 has more sound edditing options.. and more direct controll over the sound.. and even tough the CP5 is like 6 years old, the piano sounds are still very good and dynamic..

The Cp5 is quite heavy(almost 30kg), but its build like a truck and almost looks like a 70's e-piano. Where the CP4 looks like a piece of plastick altough also being somewhat lighter.. both have yamaha's best action for stage piano's with a few small differences. i prefer the somewhat lighter touch of the CP5..

the Cp5 is a terrific choice, and if you can find one under €1000 you will have an instrument that will last for years...

Another thing of the CP5 that i like is that you dont need much room above it to controll it and when using a top keyboard, you can put it quite low (which is something i prefer)

Also great is the fact that you can layer 4 sounds (only 2 on the Cp4)


For whats it worth (i dont think you are really wayting on my advise) i think the CP5 might be what you are looking for.. so if the price is right, buy buy buy... you cant go wrong with high end Yamaha stuff..

Altough, the piano sounds are typically yamaha.. so if you prefer the more warmer and darker sound of Steinway and other traditaional western piano brands... you might not be a fan of the CP5 sound... as its quite bright ... altough, so,e edditing might work miracles..

I think i would trade a CP5 for my Kurzweil PC3x thats in the same price range, witouth much thinking...(altough they are both very different instruments)

First and foremost, Bachus thank you for your views and advice,
much appreciated !!!

I will be testing the CP5 later on today. For me there are only three or four essentials. Obviously the main acoustic piano sound ( though I do not worry too much about that), second the keybed and key action, ( the action on my old yamaha P80 is close to perfect.....) and third, apparently the owner is a smoker. Now I have nothing against folks who want to smoke bad as it may be for you but I once or twice bought an arranger keyboard (unseen) which turned out to be reeking of smoke beyond belief and take it from me, there is preciously little you can do about it. As I will only be using the piano within the confines of my music room at home this becomes an issue. And of course the price should be right.
To be continued............

regards
John

There is one thing to be noted about the action.. its much like the morif and montage 8 as its a ballanced action where all hammeraction keys are weighted the same...

On an acoustic piano there is a slight difference between bassend and high end...high end keys having a lighter touch

....That is one of the things I discovered this afternoon while playing the CP5. No graded hammer action. This intended purchase of mine has taken a bizarre twist or so it seems. As the name of the thread suggests I was on the brink of purchasing the cheapo brand new Studiologic Numa, getting sidetracked by the offer of a secondhand yamaha CP5 at 10 miles from my home.
After playing this instrument for a while and after due consideration I have opted not to buy it for several reasons.
The absence of graded hammer action is one of them , although being a minor one. I had taken along my small monitors to compare the sound of this beast to the one of my old P80 and to put it simply, what I missed was the WOW factor...On top of that the asking price for this CP5 ( in mint condition but still well over six years old) was close to 1500 euros.
I did the maths, realized I still had a 15% discount coupon with the largest and cheapest music store in Holland, and.............ordered a brand new Yamaha CP4 for 1695 euros, with a 30 days trial period..........PPffff.......

to be continued

regards,
John

1500 euro is definately overpriced...

I hope you like the CP4, its a great instrument to.. espescially if graded hammer action is important for you...

30 days trial periode is also a great thing... and if you decide you dont like the CP4 as much as you wnated... you can allways try the Roland Fp90 which is at the same price range..

But for now enjoy your honeymoon weeks with the cp4..

or...Why not just wait and save up for what you really want?

Having initially started this thread and getting sidetracked into purchasing the Yamaha CP4 stage piano I thought I might leave you with my conclusions. First and foremost: I did not keep the CP4 as it had a substantial trial-period, not that I had to think long and hard. In one word: nowhere did I get even close to the WOW factor.In detail:
I know it is unfair to compare it to my old (2001) Ymaha P80 stage piano but more and more I am beginning to understand why the P80 is such an icon among stage pianos.

The CP4 at approx. 2000 euros harbours three basic piano samples , only one them a new one and not particularly impressive. The internal programmable memory holds 128 Performances whereby each basic piano sample is stored in 15 different manners with 15 different names. Nice marketing but pretty senseless as you can make your own performances by altering the key parameters such as filter, resonance, eq, envelop etc. Ultimately you are stuck with the three basic samples and like I said one of them is very good but hardly different from the one used in its predecessors. The keybed is an improvement on the CP5 in that is graded and of course also wooden keys. Probably out of habit I still prefer the superb keybed of my P80. the CP4 furthermore boast a few hundred sounds derived from the Motif workstations, some useful some less useful but of minor importance when looking for a good acoustic piano. So all in all I thought 2000 euros was a large amount of money for a, for me, minor progress.
Later on this year I will give the Roland FP30 and Kawai ES110 a go but for now I have other interests, both musical and non musical.

regards,
John

If I'm being honest....personally John as long as I know you I get it as far as the "Piano bug" we all get sidetracked........but I think you best music came from an arranger KB especially KORG PA units, ...why you drifted I don't know?....but I hope you get the "Arranger bug" back and do what you do best with those amazing 60 songs etc,...I wish you luck and all the best in music.

dp

Hi Donny,

Allow me to first express my gratitude for your kind words towards my musical achievements in the past, quite correctly as you put it yourself brought about predominantly on Korg PA arrangers. However there is no point in looking back and due to both health issues and other matters I am/was looking for a new challenge.

The piano is one of them and an important one also due to the fact that I have discovered the sheer beauty of virtually any song when sung and accompanied by only ( a decent) piano. Two outstanding examples of what I mean in the links below.....

As you know I finished my first piano album by way of tribute to my wife but I will endeavour to complete a second album this year that will include both arranger keyboard, guitar and piano as well as guest performances, in all a challenging project.

In another thread Bachus remarked about the September update for the Korg PA4X. As you may know I purchased the PA4X twice and sold it again as many times. If they do not get back to the old Performance system in which a Performance was indeed a complete registration as it was on ANY previous Korg model and as it is on ANY other make of keyboard I will never consider it again. ( the Italians really messed that one up for me......)

As regards my quest for a decent and at the same time affordable piano sound I have come a long way. Just to discover how commercialised this field is and how subjective. We all recall the thousands of threads here on the merits or shortcomings of yet another top arranger keyboard and the endless debates whether the piano on the Tyros 5 (etc) was any better than on the Tyros 4, Korg ,etc.

At least it seems that most folks agree these days that the PA4X is sonically as well as technically the most versatile and worthwhile arranger keyboard to have with Tyros 5 and Ketron SD7/9 as close runner ups. So be it. For now I make do with my PA800, ketron SD1plus and Yamaha P80 as well as a budget Martin acoustic guitar.

At present I am in the process of recording an old Suzi Quattro song with a lady singer and only the piano by way of accompaniment and it gives me tremendous joy as well as it being a great challenge.
Oh yes, the links I was referring to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q03E7oTc5qo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dz7BGlgb5Do

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X-cTZWUfoQ

regards,
John

John well said and I truly respect your thoughts on the subject,.....as for myself, "piano alone" after a while gets a bit boring as it always sounds pretty much the same, guess I like more versatility in my music in many different ways & genres which in turn keeps it interesting to me if I play alone or with others. Playing piano correctly can be a beautiful thing when both hands are trained to do it right otherwise a weak left hand can make it sound a bit sour and underprivileged to the ear in many ways harmonically and melodically...
I wish you luck in this phase of your journey...enjoy and keep us posted.

John, the beaty is often in simplicity..

Given a great voice and a piano almost allways makes a song shine...

The same often goes for a great (acoustic) guitar player with a superb voice...


Now i dont sing, but most of the time these days i use the arranger as a simple backing (drum, bass, guitar variation 1) behind a piano (sometimes with a string or pad). The chord sequencer of the pa4x is also very helpfull ..

Another thing is having 4 guitar patterns on the multipads... and having a drum and bass... then you can just vary the guitar in the backing...

Not having a long korg pa history, i do love how the pa4x works where it comes to having sepperate keyboardsets ...

John, I'm sure you don't consider yourself "sidetracked" in your musical endeavors by a (temporary???) "piano bug", nor do I think Donny meant anything negative - just a case of ummm, unfortunate phrasing. Since you're not a true (sole income source) 'Professional', your PERSONAL enjoyment, satisfaction, and sense of accomplishment are far more important than anyone else's purely subjective opinion of the quality of your work. To take on such a challenging task as mastering something as difficult as acoustic piano at this stage of your life, is to be much admired, and in my opinion, should be encouraged, not discouraged. Your 'mix it up' approach of combining solo piano, arranger kb, and guest artists, sounds like it could produce a nice diversity of music performances (and a lot of fun as well). As Donny says, "good luck on this phase of your journey".

chas

Thank you Chas for your uplifting words and I am sure Donny meant well. He has a point in fact about the left hand but then again practice makes perfect and initially I found one is inclined to play too many notes with the left hand ( missing the arranger) whereas often here goes the saying Less is More.

And as you pointed out yourself the challenge at my age is fairly respectable hence that I defintely will hang on to my keyboard skills. This morning I was practising two of the three songs mentioned in the links in my previous post with a lady singer and me on the piano and it gave me great joy and fullfilment.

In time I will record this stuff and hopefully include it on a CD, which as you know will be freely available to anyone interested. (As is my current piano CD of which I posted a download link previously but if anyone gets curious I will upload it again..)

Although a cold day the sun was shining today, today being the King's birthday here in Holland and a festive day. I just finished a small solo performance in the garden on the acoustic guitar which goes to show how variety is and remains the spice of life !!!!

regards
John