Let me start and say I am not a big fan of Casio at this time except for nostalgic memories of years gone by,.....but my point here after you watch this demo is that if you look around I would say we are moving toward a new wave of keyboards, arrangers or synth workstation that incorporate using pads in many ways as shown here and in so many various forms with new gear all over the market. You can be stuck in the old ways and be a naysayer but in all honestly its all happening no matter what we think to the keyboard music world. Don't be surprised if the next generation "Genos" KORG or whatever has a nice multipad section on board to add so much more to your music, loops, efx, etc, weather it's styles of some kind, multitrack recording, or however you make your music,.....I'll say it now, it's the trending dominant "makes sense feature"....get used to it because it's coming very soon,....that is all...
Ever wonder why kids aren't attracted to old style home organ based in theory arranger kbs.....now with the introduction of drum pads companies will see the younger generation creating music new ways using pads & a keyboard of some kind with their computers, etc,.....it's inevitably coming people....
#432788 - 06/10/1708:23 AMRe: Evolution of arrangers Casio etc takes the lead..
[Re: Dnj]
cgiles
Senior Member
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Why are we always encouraging people, especially kids, to abandon solid fundamentals and genuine knowledge and skill training in favor of gadgetry, "whiz-bangery", and instant gratification. The classic race towards mediocrity. There is a difference between real progress and knowledge-deficient shortcuts. JMO.
chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]
Why are we always encouraging people, especially kids, to abandon solid fundamentals and genuine knowledge and skill training in favor of gadgetry, "whiz-bangery", and instant gratification. The classic race towards mediocrity. There is a difference between real progress and knowledge-deficient shortcuts. JMO.
chas
Chas its natural to be stuck and stubborn in our old ways I'm guilty of that myself to a point,.....but if new roads aren't discovered nothing gets done.....remember the great Viking Warrior Ragnarr Loðbrók's journeys to conquer new lands when no one believed in him turns out he was right,...?.....We as humans are always curious of the unknown....personally I embrace it....there will be new solid fundamentals and genuine knowledge and skills yet to come we just dont know it yet!!
#432791 - 06/10/1709:26 AMRe: Evolution of arrangers Casio etc takes the lead..
[Re: Dnj]
cgiles
Senior Member
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Perhaps you're right, Donny. It will be interesting to see which approach stands the test of time. Who is more valuable; the skilled musician who produces a beautiful phrase or the guy that pushes a button to trigger that phrase? You decide.
chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]
Chas....I agree creativity does come in many forms ...musicians of all kinds look at it in different ways and that's the beauty of it,...who is to say whats wrong or right, there are no rules,... the process & how and what we use will always change it's the way of the world.
Perhaps you're right, Donny. Who is more valuable; the skilled musician who produces a beautiful phrase or the guy that pushes a button to trigger that phrase? chas
Chas if that were the case pushing a key(s) on a keyboard to trigger a phrase/style, etc, via automatic accompaniment would certainly fall into that button category also,..would it not? In the end my ears don't have eyes,...
#432804 - 06/10/1706:31 PMRe: Evolution of arrangers Casio etc takes the lead..
[Re: Dnj]
shueymusic
Member
Registered: 04/26/11
Posts: 648
Loc: Lebanon, PA
In the past... you needed a band leader, a drummer, bass player, guitar player, piano player, vocalist, brass section, woodwind section, string section, percussion section just to play music. Now, a small group of musicians program their playing style into a midi recorder cane make the foundation of the styles we can use in an arranger keyboard. Now one person can take the job of all the people it used to take to make great music. New ways will come and go... embrace creativity and enjoy your short journey on this rock we call Earth.
For the next 20-40 years, I'll create music my way and get as good as I can. Some people will enjoy it, others will not... I'll enjoy the ride!!
#432807 - 06/10/1711:20 PMRe: Evolution of arrangers Casio etc takes the lead..
[Re: Dnj]
Mark79100
Senior Member
Registered: 10/23/06
Posts: 1661
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By Dnj
Chas, its natural to be stuck and stubborn in our old ways I'm guilty of that myself to a point,.....but if new roads aren't discovered nothing gets done
Donny......in the genuine, authentic world of legit music, this is called "selling your soul to the devil!" Can you picture an opera singer discovering "new roads" by using a vocoder onstage?
#432808 - 06/10/1711:26 PMRe: Evolution of arrangers Casio etc takes the lead..
[Re: Dnj]
Mark79100
Senior Member
Registered: 10/23/06
Posts: 1661
Loc: USA
No machine, gadget, gizmo, innovative keyboard, etc will ever take the place of the human brain and human emotions. Anyone can make music. Even the tooth fairy. Hardly anyone can play it with the emotion it needs to make it work.
That's good 'cause those of us who have music in our veins and can "milk" a melody line will always move up to the front of the line and in front of the button-pushers.
Bring on all these machines........the more the better. It's like fast foods now. People are so sick of eating hum-drum food they're seeking out places where they can experience "mom's old fashioned home-made apple pie."
But there are two sides to the coin. This is becoming an emotionless society. And the more "emotion-less" it becomes, the more the technological ways of making music will surge forward until actual music, played and interpreted by an actual human being, will cease to exist. At that point so will society cease to exist.
There's a story I read:
During WWII Winston Churchill was approached by his Finance Minister who said "Mr. Churchill, we've got to cut our funding for the Arts and put it towards the war effort." Churchill replied "then what are we fighting for?" (because he understood that in a society, in a culture, the Arts are what makes life worth living!)
ME: NOT the machines. If Beethoven had a choice, he would pick the piano every time. When it comes to "freedom of expression" nothing does it like the actual instrument if your goal is to make meaningful music!
Chas is right on the money with his opening remarks.
Chas, its natural to be stuck and stubborn in our old ways I'm guilty of that myself to a point,.....but if new roads aren't discovered nothing gets done
Donny......in the genuine, authentic world of legit music, this is called "selling your soul to the devil!" Can you picture an opera singer discovering "new roads" by using a vocoder onstage?
Opera singers perform with tracks vs a full orchestra all the time so do hundreds of national musical acts around the world for a reason, nothing new there,...adapting to change in normal.
#432846 - 06/11/1708:51 AMRe: Evolution of arrangers Casio etc takes the lead..
[Re: cgiles]
Bachus
Senior Member
Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By cgiles
Why are we always encouraging people, especially kids, to abandon solid fundamentals and genuine knowledge and skill training in favor of gadgetry, "whiz-bangery", and instant gratification. The classic race towards mediocrity. There is a difference between real progress and knowledge-deficient shortcuts. JMO.
chas
Actually thats how human kind got from hunting and wearing animal hides to where we are now...
The interface and features of the mz-x are very well tought out... build and sound quallity however are below par... yet i agree with Donny, Casio redefined the interface of the arrangers for the time to come....
I am hoping someday Korg will add a pa4x, gadget(s) and 16 pads to the kronos... now that would be perfect... untill that day, i am quite happy with my pa4x, kronos, mac, ipad setup....
Edited by Bachus (06/11/1708:55 AM)
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.
#432847 - 06/11/1709:00 AMRe: Evolution of arrangers Casio etc takes the lead..
[Re: Mark79100]
Bachus
Senior Member
Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By Mark79100
No machine, gadget, gizmo, innovative keyboard, etc will ever take the place of the human brain and human emotions. Anyone can make music. Even the tooth fairy. Hardly anyone can play it with the emotion it needs to make it work.
That's good 'cause those of us who have music in our veins and can "milk" a melody line will always move up to the front of the line and in front of the button-pushers.
Bring on all these machines........the more the better. It's like fast foods now. People are so sick of eating hum-drum food they're seeking out places where they can experience "mom's old fashioned home-made apple pie."
But there are two sides to the coin. This is becoming an emotionless society. And the more "emotion-less" it becomes, the more the technological ways of making music will surge forward until actual music, played and interpreted by an actual human being, will cease to exist. At that point so will society cease to exist.
There's a story I read:
During WWII Winston Churchill was approached by his Finance Minister who said "Mr. Churchill, we've got to cut our funding for the Arts and put it towards the war effort." Churchill replied "then what are we fighting for?" (because he understood that in a society, in a culture, the Arts are what makes life worth living!)
ME: NOT the machines. If Beethoven had a choice, he would pick the piano every time. When it comes to "freedom of expression" nothing does it like the actual instrument if your goal is to make meaningful music!
Chas is right on the money with his opening remarks.
Mark
I think if A Beethoven was born today.... he would use all tools available to make music as good as possible.....
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.
#432848 - 06/11/1709:23 AMRe: Evolution of arrangers Casio etc takes the lead..
[Re: Bachus]
cgiles
Senior Member
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Originally Posted By Bachus
I think if A Beethoven was born today.... he would use all tools available to make music as good as possible.....
Yep, I can just picture Beethoven wailing away on his Casio MZ-X while his Steinway sat gathering dust in the corner. IN MY OPINION, we have/need to distinguish between technology and art. Technology, in and of itself, can duplicate art, replicate art, even ASSIST in the production of art, but it can't REPLACE (or even CREATE) art; because art is a HUMAN thing....and music IS art. AND, that Steinway will still be standing long after the MZ-X has joined the Discovery-5 in the dustbin of musical history. But I could be wrong.....
chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]
#432849 - 06/11/1709:35 AMRe: Evolution of arrangers Casio etc takes the lead..
[Re: Dnj]
DonM
Senior Member
Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
"During the fifty-seven years of his life, Beethoven played different kinds of keyboard instruments: in his youth, the clavichord, harpsichord, and organ; and as an adult, various fortepianos including those made by Stein, Böhm, Erard, Schantz, and Streicher (he was friendly with the Streicher Family)." FWIW
#432852 - 06/11/1709:50 AMRe: Evolution of arrangers Casio etc takes the lead..
[Re: DonM]
cgiles
Senior Member
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Originally Posted By DonM
"During the fifty-seven years of his life, Beethoven played different kinds of keyboard instruments: in his youth, the clavichord, harpsichord, and organ; and as an adult, various fortepianos including those made by Stein, Böhm, Erard, Schantz, and Streicher (he was friendly with the Streicher Family)." FWIW
Keyword there Don, is "PLAYED". chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]
#432896 - 06/12/1710:16 AMRe: Evolution of arrangers Casio etc takes the lead..
[Re: Dnj]
Steve A
Member
Registered: 02/08/08
Posts: 388
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
This Sunday evening I was a Special musical guest & speaker at a fairly large Church. The Pastor saw my set-up which includes the PA4X, 2 Acoustic Guitars, & an Allen & Heath QU 24 Digital Mixer which can remember 100 different scenes or mixes. Red lights flashing on the board, a full band playing from the keyboard, other times a sequenced song coming from the PA4X while I played acoustic, & the wifey singing harmony to my lead VOX.
He was blown away that one person could get so much sound as a solo musician.
He came up on stage & turned to me & said in front of the congregation that I remind him of KING DAVID, possibly the greatest songwriter & multi-instrumentalist ever. As I am a writer & singer first.
Then he said I wonder what King David would do with all of today technology I had on stage????
I too wonder.........................
Edited by Steve A (06/12/1710:19 AM)
_________________________
Steve A http://www.stevealtonian.com Korg Pa4x 76...TASCAM DP24 & DP24 SD. Studio One 6 Professional with a FADER PORT 16. 1969 Yamaha FG-300 Yamaha Red Label Nippon Gakki. Breedlove American CME 25. Neumann TLM-49
#432925 - 06/13/1712:53 PMRe: Evolution of arrangers Casio etc takes the lead..
[Re: Fran Carango]
cgiles
Senior Member
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Originally Posted By Fran Carango
He would still be thinking of Bathsheba
Ha ha. Yep, and the rest of his wives and concubines. Judging by his historical and biblical record, I'd say that womanizing had a much higher priority than technology. I think what he could have benefited from most in today's technology would be modern day methods of birth control . In any case, he has a lot in common with some of today's leaders; like multiple kids with multiple wives. Just sayin'.
chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]
I'd think that King David would have purchased TOL instruments(he could afford them) and he as a skilled musician would have "played" them as Chas noted. Also, judging from the records of him, he would not have been per-occupied with the tools themselves, but rather used the tools to express himself through skillfully played music. After all, he was known for doing his worship music with all of his heart and passion. As the saying goes, "It's the painter not the brush."
By the way, David didn't really have to think of Bathsheba as she ended up being his wife after David had sent her husband to a fierce battle where David knew he would certainly die. It was to cover up a murder. David paid dearly for his action. He was dealing with a "terrible" God, who one time killed 70,000 people just because David took a census though he was told not to. It was prophesied that what King David did in private, the same will be done to him in bright daylight. It happened to him. He lost his child he had with Bathsheba, his kingdom torn in half, and his own son violated his wives and concubines in broad daylight.
Originally Posted By Steve A
This Sunday evening I was a Special musical guest & speaker at a fairly large Church. The Pastor saw my set-up which includes the PA4X, 2 Acoustic Guitars, & an Allen & Heath QU 24 Digital Mixer which can remember 100 different scenes or mixes. Red lights flashing on the board, a full band playing from the keyboard, other times a sequenced song coming from the PA4X while I played acoustic, & the wifey singing harmony to my lead VOX.
He was blown away that one person could get so much sound as a solo musician.
He came up on stage & turned to me & said in front of the congregation that I remind him of KING DAVID, possibly the greatest songwriter & multi-instrumentalist ever. As I am a writer & singer first.
Then he said I wonder what King David would do with all of today technology I had on stage????
I too wonder.........................
_________________________
"You Shall Know the Truth, and the Truth will set you free." John 8:32
Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 1264
Loc: United Kingdom
Those boys better have good health insurance for the future. If they continue playing with the backs hunched over like that and their wrists bent at 90 degrees , they are going to need it. 🤓
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