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#435706 - 08/07/17 04:46 PM Re: Playing KB at an NH Facility etc,etc,.. [Re: Dnj]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15576
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Donny, that mic is an omni directional mic. It is NOT a super-cardiod or hyper-cardiod mic like those used by the pros today. He could hold it at his waist and it would still pick up his vocals because he had a very powerful voice. If he were using one of today's high quality mics, no one would even be able to hear him with the mic that distance from his mouth. His professionalism is more than just the way he holds the mic. His appearance, attire, the way he moves on stage and interacts with his audience is what makes him a pro - not the mic! On this we must agree to disagree my friend.

Gary cool
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PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

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#435709 - 08/07/17 05:11 PM Re: Playing KB at an NH Facility etc,etc,.. [Re: travlin'easy]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Its certainly a while ago but tha fact remains its the technic of a handheld vs one of those headset rigs,nothing will change that for a pro singer, headset mics work better if you dance, sing, or need your hands to perform,........if they were that popular you would see them on every pro singer but you don't and there is a reason for that as shown in the demo of johnny mathis and countless others..........








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#435710 - 08/07/17 07:53 PM Re: Playing KB at an NH Facility etc,etc,.. [Re: Dnj]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15576
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Donny, the Crown CM-311A is the most popular headset mic in the world. Not just Garth Brooks, but a huge number of other vocalist exclusively use this mic. As I have said many times in the past, some folks have the ability to utilize vocal control and some folks do not. Most of the do nots, which includes a number of top vocalist, do NOT perform using an instrument. They usually have an entire orchestra or band behind them - all they do is sing. They do not play the guitar, organ, arranger keyboard, drums, etc...

I learned vocal control many, many years ago when I was a news caster for a Baltimore radio station. We wore a headset mic and were able to phrase our voice in such a manner to place emphasis on certain parts of a sentence that made the stories we broadcasted interesting - just the same as phrasing does for most songs. Without this type of phrasing the songs would fall flat on their face. Power singers do this by pulling the mic away, thus creating a proximity effect to place emphasis on certain words or phrases within a song. Not everyone needs to do this, and professional broadcasters, newscasters, and those doing voice overs for commercials do not use the proximity effect. I have made dozens of commercials, some for major auto dealerships in the Baltimore metro area, and used a headset mic for every one of them. I was paid very, very well to do this because I had, what many considered, excellent vocal control.

Unlike many folks on this forum, I actually took a course on improving my vocals and broadcasting skills at the local community college called "Voice And Articulation." It was a 16 week course, 3 nights a week with a gal named Marry Anne Pastilak, who was a great jazz singer in the Baltimore metro area. She taught me a lot, and I was aptly rewarded, both financially and mentally. Not only did I learn breath control, I also learned how to be a better newscaster, a sportscaster and be very comfortable using a headset mic. She quickly noticed that I needed help on my phrasing and diction. Most non-pro singers never think about diction, but it is probably one of the most important aspects of singing. How many entertainers have you heard that slur their words? Lots, I suspect. I never really thought about it until she pointed it out to me. While Carol and I were in Memphis I talked with a lady that taught diction to many of the greats, including Elvis, Strisand, and a host of country singers. She had a 2 year waiting list to get into her course. Many of her students used headset mics and played guitar - not handhelds.

Now, there are lots of folks on this forum, and others, that call themselves power singers. Essentially, they sing loudly into the mic, pulling the mic away or backing away from the mic, especially when they try to reach those high notes that are often nearly out of their vocal range. Nothing unusual - I've seen this hundreds of times. However, that same person does not have the vocal control to use a headset mic. Don Mason tried it, you have tried it, and many others have as well, and all met with marginal success at best. Nothing wrong with that. Not everyone has the ability to control their vocals in this manner. It does not make them more, or less, professional.

From my perspective, professionalism in music is far more than the type of mic that someone uses. In fact, that's the least common denominator. Not only does a pro entertainer have to have the ability to sing and perform on stage, they, IMO, must provide their audiences with the correct emotional appearance, dress for the occasion, have the ability to read the audience, have the ability to communicate with audiences of all ages and backgrounds, both from a vocal performance, and an entertainment perspective. All of these things are far more important than whether he or she stands in front of a mic, holds it in his or her hand, or wears it on their head. As for the mic blocking the face, a large headset mic is about the size of a .50 cent piece, while most handhelds are about the size of an ice cream cone with a double scoop. NO CONTEST!

Now, when I saw both you and UD on stage in New Jersey and Philadelphia, you both had that handheld mic touching your lips, completely blocking the entire bottom of your face. Your videos of yourself show this as well. You can readily see how much the headset mic blocks my face and Garth Brooks face. There is no comparison. In Larry's video, the same is true. Very little of his face is blocked by the mic, thus his facial expressions are clearly communicated to the audiences.

Not everyone is comfortable wearing a headset mic. You, Don Mason, and many others on this forum are clearly in that category. This doesn't make you wrong, or me wrong. It's just a matter of personal preference and comfort. Keep in mind that if I agreed with you, I would just as wrong as you are. wink

All the best,

Gary cool


Edited by travlin'easy (08/07/17 07:54 PM)
Edit Reason: spelling
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PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

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#435739 - 08/08/17 12:04 PM Re: Playing KB at an NH Facility etc,etc,.. [Re: Dnj]
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Concert videos are poor examples.... Fact is, including all the videos above.... they use Omni directional mics..

The sound guys do not want to depend on the singers... they need the control, so Omni directional works best..
Can you imagine motioning to the artist to get closer to his mic ... during a concert grin

It doesn't matter where they move the mic, the sound guy has all the control.. smile

It would be a total nightmare to have the singer in control... other than their vocal ability. wink

Active entertainers have no choice, they move around or dance and can't be close to a fixed mic.. they need a headset... and it needs to be wireless... you can find a zillion artist in this category too.. grin

Madonna as an example.. or any broadway show..
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#435740 - 08/08/17 12:14 PM Re: Playing KB at an NH Facility etc,etc,.. [Re: Fran Carango]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703

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#435743 - 08/08/17 01:22 PM Re: Playing KB at an NH Facility etc,etc,.. [Re: Dnj]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15576
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Fran, I agree 100 percent!

Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#435753 - 08/08/17 09:26 PM Re: Playing KB at an NH Facility etc,etc,.. [Re: travlin'easy]
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
Originally Posted By travlin'easy
cool


Gary, I hate that dated picture of me, and I'm asking you to please take it down. I don't want anyone posting pictures that I do not first approve. Thanks.
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#435754 - 08/08/17 11:09 PM Re: Playing KB at an NH Facility etc,etc,.. [Re: Uncle Dave]
Mark79100 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/23/06
Posts: 1661
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By Uncle Dave
PLEEEEEASE... make it stop.


+1 +1 +1 +1 +1

Donny......I'm not sure why you posted a series of Grade B and C OMB's, but thank goodness this post went South.

But, the one thing I did get from (wasting 30 minutes of my life) watching each one is noticing.......they're all generic......all interchangeable....all doing nothing extraordinary......all doing the same interpretations of what they think a OMB does.

There is no creativity present in any of them. They play music and sing.....one song at a time. They read charts (very unprofessional). They don't talk much "with" their audience.....rather they talk AT an audience. They're not aware a good OMB performance is not playing a single song, stabbing at the chords, singing here and there, an occasional remark. It's a total integration of all of that, and it's done out of your head......impromptu as you go along, with no dead space anywhere.

Is it any wonder people think twice when it comes to hiring a OMB.

Bill wrote the following a while back:

"if a keyboard arranger player started using full styles they would be unlikely to get another gig, as the owners would just turn round and say what’s the point as I can just stick a tape on and get the same at a much lower price.

Another thing with the UK & Europe is that they are heavily into medleys so playing on the fly is a must, (Songbooks and full styles just get in the way) with most medleys needing to be created to what the crowd wants at the time. (They also like to see the player doing something not just pressing buttons unless he is been hired as a DJ)

Finally home arranger players that use styles to sound good at home don’t want to hear pro players using full styles but prefer to hear what the musician can do with the board. (They will usually walk out or ignore the player if he uses the stuff they can play themselves at home by pressing a button)."

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#435760 - 08/09/17 03:58 AM Re: Playing KB at an NH Facility etc,etc,.. [Re: Uncle Dave]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Originally Posted By Uncle Dave
PLEEEEEASE... make it stop.


+1 x 1000.

I also agree with UD that splashing a private individual's picture all over the internet without their permission is a definite no-no, especially if you identify them by name (and/or they're in Witness Protection smile ).

I also agree with Mark's observations; in fact, if that's a sample of what I can expect for entertainment when I get shipped to a nursing home, then Please God, kill me now.


chas


Edited by cgiles (08/09/17 04:43 AM)
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#435767 - 08/09/17 07:12 AM Re: Playing KB at an NH Facility etc,etc,.. [Re: Dnj]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15576
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Sorry, Dave. Can't take it down at this point, but you can ask Nigel to do it. I didn't realize that I needed your permission to post a photo of you from 20 years ago. Do I need to send you a royalty check as well? wink I would have posted something newer, Dave, but that photo was taken the last time I saw you, which was when you were playing at the Rib Shop on the beach in New Jersey.

Chas, in reality, you don't need someone's permission to post a photo of them, that is unless they are committing a crime - then all bets are off and they can file a law suit against you. Of course, that doesn't count if it's a security video or a body cam on a police officer. Naturally, there are exceptions to this regulation, whereas some municipalities, such as NYC requires two consent forms in order to publish a photo, but then again, the New York Times seems to get around this all the time. Damned laws are really stupid and confusing. wink

If anyone wishes to post of photo of me, taken during any time of my life, feel free - I have no objections and no vanity.

Gary cool


Edited by travlin'easy (08/09/17 09:01 AM)
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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