and if I were still in good enough shape to go on stage, I would really be tempted to purchase a new Genos.



Gary

Ya got that right it’s excellent! Is this the same guy I think his name was Joost? He has done live playing in the past on Tyros on Sunday? The more I hear of Genos the more I like.

P.S. I discovered from the PSR Forum that it is Joost.

Gary that has to be the best Genos demo yet. Is is tempting.
Thnaks John C,

Great find Gary.
Thoroughly enjoyed that.
Can't wait to get mine
Thanks
Eric

Yes, a very good demo, with a great player. However, most of the styles shown I probably wouldn’t use because of the market I play.

Gary,

Lots of players are home players.

😊

Gary,
I am a home player and at 88 I bought the Genos and I am loving
it. Age is only a number and the enjoyment I receive with the
Genos is well worth the price as it keeps me young at heart.

Lloyd

Most Tyros owners... i guess about 80% or more are home players...
And there is no reason to expect any different from the Genos...

Lloyd you are 88 and you just bought a Genos? I’m proud of you.
Where do you live?

John C.

A VERY True statement............are they staying away from showing the traditional styles we ALL use vs these EDmesque styles because they sounds just like T4, T5? or

I've put some jazz/latin styles in the video and already did a BigBand style in my live broadcast. If you are talking about the Ballroom/Slowswing/60's styles: I personally never use them and found the difference with T5 less noticably (probvably the difference between being 27 years old versus 65+ ).

Where they actually made big steps compared to T4 and T5 is the Pop/Rock/Dance department, mainly because these musical styles (especially EDM) lean heavily on DSP's and good production (mixing etc.). One of my friends is a big techno lover (the underground type) and he found the drum kick in styles acceptable for the first time.

Nice demo. That violin around 4min sounds terrible. It’s like a kid is trying to learn. They could do better with it.
Doesn’t anybody play some rock music??

Thanx for the verification which makes it much clearer as to what Yamaha target audience is for genos regarding EDM type styles...
Id say the rest can still be done easily with T4, T5, S970..
the old gets phased out the new comes in as with all things.... Thanx

To all you naysayers, Mirza, DNJ, etc..., how about you going to the nearest music store that has a Genos, take along your trusty video camera and play it, record your playing of the styles you wish to hear and post them.

Gary

I listened to it, and of course it sounds good. For the few styles that he played that I might use, I can't tell that it sounds better than other current arrangers though. Screen looks nice. I have heard the country styles are really good and the one or two I heard somewhere did sound great. Not great enough to make me want to change though.
Yamaha big band stuff has always been great, as has the horns, brass and guitars. I don't have an opinion on how good the EDM stuff is, because I'm afraid I don't even know what it's supposed to sound like.
I'm sure older Yamaha players will be pleased because it will surely be an upgrade from the Tyros/PSRs.

Gary why naysayer?? Are you saying that violin around 4min is good sounding?? It’s horrible, and I love violin. To tell you the truth. Apart feom drums and piano , the rest of it sounds just like T5.
Actually, I think all these sa2 voices (sax, clarinet,flute,trumpet...etc) should be in true mono legato mode from the start. They are mono instrument anyway in a real life. Or at least to have a version of the same instrument in a mono legato mode to play it like a real thing. I know sa2 have legato playing, but it is not even close to what it could or should be.

Well folks, here is my judgment after owning and playing with my Genos for a week. It is a Yamaha with Yamaha voices and styles - simple as that. If you expected Korg-like or Ketron-like sounds you will be disappointed. The voices are pretty good and the styles are suitable for most music. The old styles that have been re-voiced are also nice. It would have been nice if Yamaha had replaced them but that is the way it goes. I upgraded from a Tyros 4 and find a very big improvement in sound overall.

Yamaha did add some nice features to the Genos that will make gigging easier and song set organization easier.

I have to agree with Gary, many of the forums are full of posts by people who have never touched or seen a Genos griping about what is or is not present in the Genos. They gripe about sound quality of recordings by people trying to show a little of what the Genos can do. I wonder if these folks understand these videos are not being produced by professional film makers who own or have access to high quality recording equipment. Frankly, I took all my videos down and have been a little disgusted with the reaction of people who seem to have nothing better to do but gripe.

Deane

Mirza, the only strings I heard played with the right hand took place at just beyond 5 minutes and it was a cello - not a violin. And, to me, it sounded damned realistic.

Deane, some folks would bitch and gripe if you hung them with a brand new rope!

All the best,

Gary

Violin sound is around 4min. Even cello is simular to violin.Sounds like a kid is playing it. Yamaha can do it better. Saxes are great. Clarinet is the best on any keyboard I ever heard. Drums are finally good on Yamaha.
Why you guys have problem if we discuss things we like or dislike on keyboards? Are we bunch of babies here? Is it so hard to give our egos a break before we get here?

Are you talking about the strings in the style? As for a kid playing it, well I don't know about that as I am not an aficionado of violins. However, I did play a fiddle for a while for a country band, but I was never very good at it, though the other band members thought I was.

Now, I enjoy hearing the likes and dislikes, mainly because there has been lots of times that I have been able to help someone with their problems and provide them with a workaround or solution. For me, that is the enjoyment of this and other forums I frequently visit.

As to an ego, I lost that the very first time I looked in the mirror and realized that I really did not look like James Dean, though my wife and girlfriends thought I did at that age.

So, Mirza, I really look forward to you posting your video of you in the music store playing a Genos and posting your hands on thoughts on the product.

All the best,

Gary

How come Mirza isn't entitled to his own opinion? It really annoys me to see people branded as gripers or haters just because they may sometimes have an opinion different from yours. We already know ahead of time whose side everybody is going to line up on; that's because most discussions on this forum are driven by personalities rather than fact and unbiased opinion. I think we HAVE to maintain an environment where everyone can feel free to voice an opinion (especially on subjective matters) without getting blasted with criticism and derision. JMO (assuming I'm allowed to have one).

chas

So is that the new requirement to have an opinion these days? Didn't you just pronounce the violins on the Genos "damned realistic"? Was that an opinion gleaned from a hands on at a music store? Just sayin'.

chas

Here's my 2 cents..........in the next week or 2 I will head to Frankieve's store to try for myself. If I like what I hear and enjoy it, I'll probably buy one but it won't be until spring of 2018 mainly because we'll be in Florida this winter and it's a lot easier to transport the s970, no sense of getting a Genos and having it sit idle in the north while I'm in the south. No one is right and no one is wrong about the Genos we have our own opinions about it. I think DNJ says it best "enjoy what you play."

I respect what others think about it, but others won't be playing it, it will be me if I decide to blow mortgage money on a Genos. I think Ricky Nelson said it best in "Garden Party," "You can't please everyone so ya got to please yourself." With all that written I may even decide I don't need or want a Genos..............but until I play it I'll never know.

Steve, buy it now and drop it off at my house on the way to Florida. I'll have it all broken in for you when you pick it up on the way back (at no charge ).


chas

Chas, did you have a bad night? Mirza, just like everyone else, can post anything they want, right or wrong. You can do the same. And, there is no requirement for him, or anyone else, to actually touch, feel and play anything in order to post his or her thoughts. I figure that he is a very talented individual, probably knows a lot more about musical instruments that I do and I would respect his hands on assessment of any arranger keyboard. There are no rules here pertaining to this. Maybe you should reread what I posted - there were no mandates in my posts - just requests.

Gary

Chas what a generous offer, the only problem is with 2 dogs 2 people and related gear there just won't be enough room in the van. Maybe on another trip when we can leave the 2 dogs up north. by that time the next hottest arranger will be released. and I'll be making the trip alone because my wife would rather have me leave than the 2 dogs

She probably thinks 'two dogs are better than one' .

.....kidding, kidding

chas

Yup she does.

PREEMPTIVE CAVEAT : I have NOT tried a GENOS, nor do I have any desire to, and I really have no opinion about it ...
Nor am I directing this post towards any particular individual(s) ...

I just find it very interesting how when a new KB comes out, we pretty much know what side of the fence SOME people - not ALL - are going to be on, as chas said earlier ... I also find interesting the way people will base their opinion on the videos posted on line - if it is a 'professionally' produced video, folks will most likely say 'wow, that KB sounds great", but if it is a video 'produced' by an Average Joe, where the KB sounds are not great, there is criticism that the video was not properly recorded ... Most likely, the sounds that Average Joe produced are probably closer to the sounds that most KB players are going to produce as many of us don't have the skill level or equipment to duplicate what the professionals create ...
How many players here can HONESTLY say that their KB sounds as good as the manufacturers videos, or even as good as the demo sounds resident on our keyboards? ... I would venture to guess very few ...
Now, I don't know if Gary has had 'hands on' experience with a GENOS, or not - I don't remember him saying one way or the other - but if he has and he thinks it is the greatest KB ever, then good for him ...

I'm not 'picking on' Deane, but I am using part of his quote because he has recently owned and played a number of different keyboards:

To ME, that is not a ringing endorsement for a 'Standard Bearer' KB priced in the $4000 to $5000 range, but Deane seems happy with his choice and good for him - although he did also say that the GENOS would not be used for ALL gigs, but would be used for 'special gigs' because of certain styles that it has ...
As for ME, I have a keyboard for every day of the week, and every gig I play - the KORG PA900 - Is it the 'best ever'? I doubt it, but it IS the best for me right now because it is PAID FOR, and as long as someone isn't playing a Pa4x or a GENOS right next to me, neither I nor my audience will know the difference ...

Its not that bad here...

Over on a yamaha genos forum, i was asked not to have any critcisme on the Genos, as that was not fair to people who just spend 5k on it...

Someone told me a forum was not the place to criticise an arranger, the only way to make criticisme heared by Yamaha is by sending them a letter... asking politely for changes


I can tell you it actually made me smile... and you know what.. maybe we should stand back, and let people live in their personal bubble.. i can imagine they will truely live happily ever after in their everlasting bubble of happiness.. i think i will keep my criticisme to myself on that other forum...

However, i agree with you Chas, overhere on synthzome everyone is entitled to his own opinion amd to defending them... no room here for pink bubbles... this is where the blazing winds of honesty rule

If Both Genos & KORG Pa4x were the same price which would you choose and why?...

Ah Bachus, you're a true master of 'tongue-in-cheek'.....uh, that WAS 'tongue-in-cheek', right?



chas

Get your tongue out of my cheek! :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00ILfCzJiWQ

PA4X because I don't need (or have room for) 76 keys.

Both because I can't take them with me We didn't buy a cemetery plot for 4 just the two of us. .................Of course I'm kidding. Can't answer that until I play a Genos.

Don, if all the music genre's/categories had a contest for the most hilarious song title, Country would win, hands down . I remember one that was something like "You took my heart and slammed it on the ground and stomped that sucker flat". BTW, I love the really funny ones, especially if the lyrics live up to the title.



chas

I would choose the PA4x. Why? Because it is Donny's favorite...at least for the next month . However, after 29 days of ownership (30 day return policy), I would return it and get the Genos. Why? Why not. However, after 29 days of ownership, I would return it, take the money and go on a nice European vacation. While on vacation, I would post my opinion on each KB (while gazing adoringly at a picture of a 'cherry' B3 and matching Leslie 122 ).

chas

So, Mirza, I really look forward to you posting your video of you in the music store playing a Genos and posting your hands on thoughts on the product.

All the best,

Gary [/quote]

Well Gary. I would gladly do that. At least I would do it for you. But I do live in Canada. I know that our health care is better than Americans. Well, that is not fair. Everyone ‘s healthcare is better than yours. Our prime minister has much bigger vocabulary than your president. Well, I probably have better vocabulary than the president and my English sucks 😜😜.. But, when it comes to keyboards we are a third world country. So who knows when I will be able to even see Genos, or play it for that matter😀😀😀.

Geeze, I figured that because everything is better in Canada than the US, other than the weather, you folks would have far more music stores and have the Genos before anyone else. Guess you will have to make a trip to California or New England to try one out for yourself.

All the best,

Gary

I don't much like the political smears, however.

Mr.Bernie, it’s just a joke. We are not babies.

I would personally love to be able to afford a Genos. I just don't understand Yamaha's desire to drain people's hard earned savings to pay for it.

I know there are those of you who can afford any board you desire...unfortunately, that's not me.

If Yamaha priced it competitively with the PA4X, wouldn't that sell more product and make their money on volume.

Is there really $3500 more value to the Genos over the 970? I realize there is a fair profit margin for dealers...just seems excessive.

Yes, perhaps, but increased production volume increases cost for manufacturing, storage, shipping, etc etc.
The manufacturer knows that there is a certain number of 'loyalists' who will purchase the item regardless of the price and relies on them for their profit ...

Just seems a little crazy that Yamaha is trying to reach out to a younger audience...but pricing the Genos to their wealthy older audience.

I still don't understand why we think these things (styles genre') have to be mutually exclusive. Why can't old (legacy) and new (edm,etc.) styles reside on the same hardware platform? If you don't like a particular style, DON'T USE IT. Unless you're selling caskets or cemetary plots, I would think that any business model would want to attract a young, long-term user base. Why this would make older users feel uncomfortable is beyond me.

chas

You can’t use drum mixer with user drums.

Chas, there are areas in the keyboard that hold legacy voices, and a USB 3.0 connection for storing all the Yamaha styles on the planet.

All the best,

Gary

Chas I agree.... in fact I could never understand why we buy a new keyboard for the styles.... Spend 3 or 4 grand for styles that will be available and play in our 10 year old keyboards.

I never bought a new keyboard for the styles.... Features yes..

All kinds of styles can live in the same keyboard.. The EA7 is a perfect example... It does include the drums and tones needed...

Because a new KB uses the new and much better voices for the styles.
Eric

I just got home from a music shop where i had my first experience with the genos... mostly listening to a demo...

However i can confirm that the acoustic sounds are what makes the Genos shine and sparckle.. nothing comes close to the sound of yamaha’s individual acoustic instrmental sounds...

I was overall very happy with the sound quallity of the Genos, styles and sounds seem to have more prseesence..

Also the imterface was impressive wit the large touchscreen.. it was actually quite natural to make some basic eddits to the styles and the sounds... straight forward.

I also did a test, removing all effects and reverb from a style.. and it still sounded good..

Also noticed that when you add reverb to the drums, it isn’t added to the base drum.. as it should be... this is a huge improvement for overall drum quallity by itselves

I actually enjoyed the demo... also seemed there where quite a lot of modern pop, rock and dance styles new in the Genos.. which in my point of view was a neccesarity... an arranger keyboard should be able to play all styles and ages of music...


But it wasn’t all just positives...

-The B3 sounds, still fall short of my Kronos, by quite some distance
-I played around with the rotary effect, tought it strange that the maximum time i could set for going from fast to slow was 2 secs.. personally i love real long times, much more in line with the original speakers
-It misses quite some of the pro features on my pa4x
-and a slew of other minor things, like having to reach to the far left for switching keyboard sounds on or off, the button position on the pa4x works much better..
-the keybed felt quite light, the pa4x is more to my prefference.. but the genos keybed is acceptable, and easy to getbused to..


Despite this i came to the conclusion that combined with the kronos the Genos sounds make my setup completer then the full korg setup... having two brands of keyboards widens the sound spectrum..


Leaves me with the good old question.. is it worth shelving out €2400 euro and the exchange of my pa4x? Thats a huge amount of money...

Bachus,

What got you to buy a PA4X in the first place?

Genos seems to be just a really good and expensive toy. While Pa4X is a professional instrument. They don't even play in the same league and should never even be compared .

All those features missing on the T5..
And getting both a good deal on my pa4x buying price
As well as being able to sell the t5 almost for what it cost me..

In the end i lost €200 on my T5
And if i trade in the pa4x it will also only cost me €300
(Trading in the T5 now would have cost me €700)

This allowed me to enjoy the pa4x for almost a year
Just to find out that there is a huge amount to be liked..
And while it has no sa2 and ensemble voices and free play styles..
And may have less pressence in the soundquallity
There is a huge amount of things i would miss from my pa4x

Bachus: Thanks for your evaluation of the Genos. It sounds like a formidable upgrade from the Tyros 5 (since you had a T5). I hope to hear more evaluations from SZ members as they get a chance to hear and play the Genos.

Bachus, sounds like you had a fun day and an enjoyable experience. I thoroughly enjoyed reading your report on the Genos and your evaluations.

All the best,

Gary

Bachus,

Thanks for your review sounds like a fun day.

It was just about 1 1/2 hour.. and 1 1/2 hour of total traveling time..

And the best thing of the evening.
I met some very nice people.
And we had some nice talks.

I agree Fran great reply....

Mirza,
I think it it a real insult to those who have spent thousands of dollars to buy the Genos for you to make a comment about the Genos being an "Expensive Toy". Why don't you think before you post.

Deane

Hammer Hi. Great tip. Thank you.
I am thinking, thinking, thinking 🤔........ Maybe the kids in the kindergarten who take my words of expressing my views and how I see their favourite toy , maybe and I will repeat maybe their diaper is full but they don’t realize it because they are stil playing with their barbie doll. And that unpleasant smell comes from them and their own perception of having a full diaper. It does not come from me.
Kidding aside, I fully support anyone with their keyboards if it makes them happy . Who knows, maybe I will end up with a Genos if Yamaha stops watering down major features and dumbing them down like we are in preschool.

A lot of people are proud of the fact that they can afford an expensive toy (else they'd NEVER sell a Lamborghini ). If you buy something that you don't REALLY need, it's pretty much a toy (an adult toy maybe, but nonetheless, a toy ). Since I've never produced anything for commercial consumption, my entire studio is a huge collection of expensive toys (including the five guitars of which I can't play a single note.....but they sure look pretty, sitting there ). JMO.

chas

MikiMiki,
You have got to be kidding....

No he is not..
I think incan understamd exactly what he means..