NUFF SAID Tony great post!

I would never rave over heavily arranged styles. But....they have their place - for instance big band and swing (if thats your thing) But generally, unless your trying to emulate an orchestra or big band most music recorded in the past 50 years can be covered by a group of 4 or 5 musicians; Lead and rhythm guitar, bass, drums and keys - thats the sound I prefer which is why a stripped back sound is for me 9 times out of 10.

The great thing about a good arranger is they can do both and with the quick touch of a slider you have an unplugged or stripped back natural style.

Hi Donnie:

My arranger is not used for performing in public like most of the talented folks here. Being a songwriter, I'll use the instruments (Yamaha calls them voices) needed for the sound of the song being created and/or demonstrated in an eventual MP3 file. I write in several genres and some need more instruments or even an orchestra... while others, considerably less. One of my pet peeves with Yamaha styles... they don't seem to understand the need for a flat-top guitar, a lap-steel or dobro for country and country rock genres.

Everything else about Arranger KB's is nothing but positive in my opinion. Being able to prepare a demo of an original song is a Godsend and Arrangers are the best kept secret in most of the songwriting world.

Happy New Year, ----Dave Rice

Dave I hear you loud and clear.....if I was a song writer id use the arranger for a first rough, as tsyles really help in that regard,....then from there once I get the song idea on paper I would definitely multitrack & record EACH part of the song from scratch into a DAW so I could get EXACTLY the sound & fx etc,. that I wanted vs just a repetitive style, then bring it to the studio musicians to fine tune it for a master demo, etc,.....hope that makes sense.

I don't know where I learnt it but some time back I was taught that the human was only really capable of hearing two things at once. In the case of the piano trio we really only hear the piano and bass and feel the drums. As we add more voices to the arrangement more of the original parts move from being heard to being felt. Starting off with 5-6-7-8 different things, all at once and all of equal importance is going to lead to tonal confusion. Just hitting the audience with a packed, canned backup style and the melody is never going to have the effect of a carefully arranged piece in all of its parts.

Hi again, Donnie:

Makes sense to me... except for the problem of having sufficient funds to pay for all those studio musicians. Songwriting has never been more competitive and less rewarding... and all the while, the customer base is shrinking unless one is into RAP.

Greetings ekurburski:

Welcome to the General Arranger Forum. Sounds like you've done your homework regarding the scope of human hearing. My wife accuses me of being deaf, blind and other significant human frailties all the time. LOL! I had a classmate from Mountain Home years ago. Hope it hasn't lost it's charm.

Regards to both of you, ----Dave Rice

http://www.ShowCaseYourMusic.com/DaveRice/

Earl, who ever told you that you can only hear two sounds at once has absolutely no idea what they are talking about. Anyone that has studied human anatomy and physiology knows that humans and most other mammals can hear thousands of sounds at the same time. When you hear a hissing sound of air leaking from an punctured tire, you are hearing thousands upon thousands of sound all a the same time, and thousands of individual frequencies. Same when you hear white noise. I do remember a few things from my A&P classes at University of Maryland.

All the best,

Gary 8)

Hi Gary:

Interesting! We have a "healthy" debate on sound(s) and hearing. I'll be looking forward to "Earl's" response... and then yours. LOL! I promise to be impartial. My original intent was to make a fairly new participant here feel welcome. This forum has a cliquish feel to it for newcomers and it takes a while to "learn the ropes" and "pecking order."

It is such a valuable resource to me in keeping up with this little segment of our ever-changing world and guys like you, Donnie and Mason always know how to "humanize" things and put opinions in "laymen's terms." Then there is Nigel who keeps it all in balance.

All the best, ----Dave Rice

Gary, yes, no, maybe. In the case of the leaking air. that sound supersedes all other sounds and becomes dominate. The other sounds are heard (so in that sense you are correct) but they mesh together into one secondary sound. You hear it but as one sound not 10-20 individual sounds. So for the listener to hear each line of the music distinctively you need to introduce it individually.

Now, as I said, I don't remember the exact place or person that introduced this concept to me, but I believe it might have been presented in a arranging, composition class I took at Norfolk State College when I was at the Naval School f Music.

I also don't think that what was meant, that you didn't hear more than two sounds at once but that you couldn't properly comprehend more than two sounds (lines of music) at once. I need to be more careful as to how I explain things!

So, yes, no, maybe.