I've had an idea for a few years now about how to keep yourself alive in today's music scene (i.e. how to keep on working).

Before I tell you....I hear everyone talking about how music has deteriorated to the point of "it's not music anymore." Well, correct.....it's not! It's a free-for-all, something like a World Wrestling Federation event with 20 wrestlers in the ring with barbed wire surrounding it and NO ONE actually wins. Everyone just butts heads.

So, I'll tell you my idea, but before I do that, does anyone else have any of their own thoughts on how to re-enter the market (hint: by transforming themselves)?

P.S. I'm not keen on my idea, but it WOULD work!

In my area, the live music scene is more or less stratified by age groups. I generally stay with the senior group, which is where I fit. If we can keep that group alive a little longer, there should be continued work. No way will I spend time learning contemporary material, which I don’t listen to anyway. I’m in retirement, so I play what I like and in most cases, my audience likes it too----at least that’s what they say. They haven’t kicked me out, as yet. The work is still there, at least for now.

“Our Crowd,” is the 50 plus groups. So, if we stick with senior groups, the music will keep getting younger. Standards are still standards... timeless music.

Technology has given us all an opportunity to be the musicians we are. So, even though the new music isn’t our thing, we should respect it with the same feeling we respect ourselves by doing what we enjoy.

When I had my Music Store/Music School I sold accordions to my students and outside customers. It was what was in demand. With the coming of new types of music accordions lost their popularity. Sales went down; I became frustrated until a little Jewish lady said to me, “John you must go with the flow”. I thought; she’s right. Guitar then became the most desired instrument. Sales went up and I was happy.

My simple answer: You must go with the flow/times. The musicians who went from playing with live bands went to OMB. The OMB musicians went from parties to N.H. The musicians who played N.H. went to enjoying
home playing.

So the answer to your question is fairly simple: you either go with the flow or you become a man who is confused and not very happy. Changing the rest of the world is not possible.

John C.

Johnathan I have found if the people you are playing for are 50 and up, what is needed is 60% contemporary music; and yes, old standards do still have their place.

John C.

For nursing homes in our area, 50’s era still work but 60’s Music is getting more popular. Folks seem to still enjoy old standards.

My rule of thumb has always been to perform the music that was popular when the audience was 15 to 35 years of age. Beyond age 35, most folks tend to get away from listening to music because they are spending most of their time working and taking care of their families and don't have much time to listen to music.

Good luck,

Gary

what YOU Play is one thing,...................
HOW YOU PLAY IT is another and is the KEY bottom line no matter what kind of music it is...
many players don't realize good from bad either,....some play for the $$$$, some have big egos and just think they are the best when they ain't or their friends or someone in the audience said great job just to be nice and it goes to their head, some are lazy to practice to get better or have never been exposed to people who are better and can absorb and learn from them, some think the NEWER is better gear route has to make them better, and the list goes on & on you know what I am talking about,....if your not playing much, if you not getting calls without having to chase them, then baby something is wrong with your music, or performance, etc etc ....its a hard pill to swallow but it is the truth the people will Always make or break you....that said everyone can get better if they want to buy bearing down, absorbing others, practice, listen & learn, be BETTER then everyone else in every way, give 150% every time your on stage and most of all look the audience dead in the eyes smile and enjoy, I myself am still learning so much every time I sit down to play or sing, it never ends,! hope I didn't confuse anyone,..just a few observation from 50 years of doing it on stage,.....have a nice day.

Donny
Most of what you've said is true but sometimes your limited by peoples expectations of what they want, or think they know whaat they want no matter how good you are. Older musician with a keyboard is just not in their heads in a lot of situations. Even if your female which opens a lot more doors, and I'm talking from first hand experience.

Right on point, Bill ... we are not the Beatles or the Stones ... Unfortunately, at some point AGE does matter ... that's why at this stage in our careers we have to stick with the venues we fit in with ...

Donny, when you're right, you're right (especially about the ego's). Too bad only certain people are allowed to say it . There is one caveat though; it depends on what one's goals are, ie. what's important to them. That could be 1. money, 2. ego-fulfillment/self-gratification, or 3. a genuine desire to improve oneself, musically, spiritually, and professionally. Of the things you listed, I think the most common is thinking one is (much) better than they actually are. This is evidenced by the frequent self-congratulatory statements followed by the fake and phony kudos from their 'supporting cast'. However, 'keeping it real' is not exactly the foundation our warm and fuzzy forum was built upon, and maybe that's a good thing. Given the average age of our forum members, it's unlikely anyone is going to change (nor should they be required to). But an occasional reality check is sometimes good for the soul.

chas (whose mediocrity was recognized early on )

By WHOM ?!?

Anyone with and ear and a brain .

chas

Well, that eliminates a lot of people ...

Of course, you can get all the jobs you wish if you were on a Rolling Stone Magazine cover.

Gary

here we go south again.....

Well, looks like we've got a new forum police. Man, you're like the recently reformed lifetime smoker who now freaks out if he smells even a whiff of smoke . Don't let boredom get to you Donny. Get a hobby (besides posting to Synthzone ). It (boredom) can turn you into a grumpy old man (like me ).

Your best buddy,

chas

This is the time of year when I need to start working on contracts, and ask myself if I want to continue. It's a slow time and I tend to forget how much I enjoy playing out, and think more about booking,equipment,setup,travel etc. I think a tell tale sign for me, aside from loss of call for what I do, is when I go out and see another live performer. I always feel I want to be playing, not just listening. When kicking back and downing a few while listening without any desire to play is enough, then I'll know.

Chas, ......I understand just thought this topic was becoming deep and enjoyable to read & discuss players feeling about a very serious subject we all face in the biz,....sorry if I over did it with concern.

Chas......are you serious with this post?
Donny.....are you serious with this reply?

.........'cause if you both say yes, I have a comment I'm going to put forward to both of you.

Donny....I have to chastise you on your earlier post when I have time later. You mean well, but don't you get it yet? It's NOT, I repeat NOT, about “Be so good they can't ignore you!”

Think about that and I'll explain later if you still haven't figured out the obvious.

BTW....don't change your avatar...it makes you easier to find than the search box does!

Mark fire away I'm sticking to my guns sorry..

Sorry Mark, you're not 'authorized' to chastise Donny; only Fran, Uncle Dave and of course me, his best friend , are allowed, so back off.

chas

BTW, glad you've learned to question our seriousness before going off the deep end. Good move.

John came closest to what I was referring to. Go with the flow. If you can’t beat them.....join them.

One of the things I was thinking about for a long time now. You go on the "lecture circuit." I was contacted by a local library many years ago and asked to do a lecture on one man performance. Now I knew nothing about how to do a lecture, never did one before. But I was young and daring and filled with enthusiasm for music. I took that enthusiasm and used it to carry me through an impromtu lecture that I made up as I went along. Now this was NOT playing songs to the audience. It was things like explaining how an arranger keyboard works, how it replaces a band instrument by instrument, the many things a player has to think about as he’s presenting his music, my own life story about how I got into music and my adventurous life style after that, sound effects contained in the keyboard, song history, musical trivia, emulate bits and pieces of songs in popular Broadway shows, play songs from different countries and comments about each song, vocalizer demo, AABA (and others) song structure, major and minor music (I played Jingle Bells both in F major followed by F minor.....and.....the bells alone coming out of the keyboard really intrigued them). There’s so much more to talk about as one thought leads to another. I did almost two hours without blinking an eye. That’s how much there is to talk about that could mesmerize an audience.

What I learned from that experience is.....you don’t have to “play” songs to entertain people. That is, if you want to “entertain” people. If you want to “entertain” yourself, you play at home. I was always about giving people what I thought they needed to get their minds off their problems and associated stress. And that’s not always “playing.” People who don’t play are fascinated with any kind of insight into the dynamics of playing and listening to music and the latest keyboard technology, and stories, etc. as explained by a professional.

That’s the local libraries. They’re begging for unconventional entertainment.

Now, what do you do with these young technology oriented kids of today that don‘t go to libraries? You go on the high school and college lecture circuit where there’s big money and they’re also looking for unconventionality. Learn inside and out what a synth like Korg is capable of doing, weird futuristic sounds (think the synth in Uptown Funk), making up rhythms on the spot using just the keyboard, using the sequencer to set up La Bamba type backgrounds, using the sampler to sing a duet with yourself, etc. You get my drift by now.

I remember being at an ARP demo back in 1980, in the embryonic stages of synthesizers. The demo song was (theme from) Jaws. The demonstrator set up the sequencer to play that driving suspense line in the background while he played over it. I’ll never forget the huge sound he produced from just two instruments. Of course, HE was a pro and I was a relative amateur at the time. When I got home, I tried doing it myself just for the fun of it. I don’t remember the keyboard I used, (except for the flute after-touch and I think it was a Roland) but the sequencer was a Roland MC500, and for the bass part I programmed a Roland TB-303 bass line. It’s a primitive knockout version I did on the spot, but with a little sprucing up, it would knock the socks off your audience. Attached is the “primitive” version I recorded at home from about 30 years ago.

A lecture/show could include a lot of that kind of stuff and the kids would eat it up. I even predict synth sales might temporarily soar.

I’m all talked out. I have to save some energy to “chastise” Donny now. I can't figure Chas out...he changes personalities more often than Donny changes keyboards.

Gary, that was so observant and brilliant what you said here. The more I thought about it, the more I realized how right you are. Another startling, terrifying, exasperating fact, another episode from the soap opera: As The World Turns. Most time you're an interesting guy, sometimes you're "genius."

BTW: How much did you charge RS to let them use your photo on the cover of a Rolling Stone issue?

Mark

Donny....don't you think it's time you changed your tune and got in touch with reality?

In my case I have to "chase them" now because of a variety of reasons, all centering around an over-supply of musicians or fake musicians and an under-supply of locations to play.

Then there's the AD's, 90% have no idea what their doing. Then the friends of a friend of a friend looking for his first live playing job. The other day I played before the next act....a "professional chorus" singing Xmas carols. The accompanying pianist couldn't even play White Xmas without the music (and she still made mistakes). The singers were so disorganized, I thought I was at a Marx Brothers performance. But one confided to me then were simply locals playing for nothing. Then the "I just want to get out of the house so I'll play for nothing at a Senior place" persons. The high school jazz bands who play for nothing and "know nothing" (about how to play to an audience). The ever reducing budgets. Non-musical entertainment...lecturers, poetry readings, etc. The list goes on and on. It's a losing battle.

There's nothing wrong with "my music" or "my performances." 50 years of playing full time speaks for itself!

As I said before, I'm glad "I saved up my money for a rainy day."

especially if she has great legs, an ear-to-ear smile, and can do the Cucharacha!

Is that why posts almost constantly eventually "go South?" Scott Yee kept the group on course. I miss his enthusiasm for making music and introducing new ideas in "making music."

Arthur Godfrey

How can I fire away when I don't exactly know what guns you're sticking to?

Donny....I don't know if you were serious with your reply/replies or it's Chas type satire?

Either way this "going South" really irks me. I think a lot and I put my thoughts to paper. I'm a person who finds other people interesting, fascinating......I like to hear how others think about things. Each person is like reading a new book. That's why it really irks me when the subject matter goes off course. I mean, you take the time to write a thought out, you get two replies "on course" and then it turns into Saturday Night Live.

I don't write for myself. I write to give fodder to the group to think about instead of the keyboard A vs keyboard B vs keyboard C program. And I only type at 5 WPM!

But the group is what it is. A very funny "social saloon." I DO enjoy that aspect of it!

Mark

I agree completely with theses comments. I worked one facility where millionaires lived. They didn't want to hire me that often because the residents were just as happy to hear their grandchildren's choir or band group from one of the local high schools. In fact, after a resident had their grandchildren come the others wanted to do the same. All for free of course. Times change and the market changes and that has nothing to do with the quality of the performance and in fact the AD complimented me as did several residents. They just preferred the grandkids. I should add that they would hire me once a year, but it wasn't worth it to me.

Yours, on the other hand, is crystal clear .

chas

Chas........I knew you were a class act.....a man who recognizes quality when he sees it.

To Mark79100 ...

re: going into the Lecture circuit. Some years ago, I found out that many of the senior places where I played, also had something they called "Enrichment Seminars". These were usually just talks/lectures. I presented them with the idea that if there was interest, I could do an Enrichment Seminar on some aspect of music playing with arrangers. Since then, I have done a bunch of these, including (at a couple of places) a whole series of such seminars. I do them as "lecture/demo" format, that is I do a fair amount of playing of songs too, as part of "demoing" what I am talking about. They seem to go over quite well!

I also have done a small # of similar talks in middle schools (via a friend who had the right 'contacts' to get me into a couple of schools). Kids ate it up! I did have to play different kinds of music than I'd play in a senior place though. Nothing more than some rock'n'roll, R&B, blues, so it was still "the older stuff", but as long as it had good energy and interesting rhythms, kids seemed really interested. The kids of course loved the "synth" side of things- how odd/unusual sounds can be made etc.

I had never thought about approaching other places (such as libraries) - sounds like a good idea, the lecture/demo/talk idea could be viable in a bunch of different kinds of places ...

Thanks ... interesting topic ...
Jim

Jim.......and "thanks" to you for revitalizing me. I'm going to give what I said here some serious thought again. Let's face it, change is essential if you want to stay ahead of the game.

I remember when I became a full blown disc jockey. I went into it with a lot of reluctance. Within a few gigs, I remember thinking how much I enjoyed DJ-ing, freeing yourself up, detaching yourself from the keyboard, a whole new format for producing music and why did I take so long to do it.

It sounds like you're halfway there already. All you need are more venues...you've already got a handle on the "job description."