[QUOTE]Originally posted by Douglas Dean:
[B]jm,

When you plug in a CD player into your system the CD player does not have as much drive into your amp as the 6000 does. In other words the 6000 has more power coming out of it than the CD player.

Not necessarily the case, there are other factors, I would not say this without seeing a circuit diagram and technical spec. for both pieces of equipment. Broadly speaking, it depends where the output is taken from. I have two CD players, both Sony, and plugged into the same amp, again Sony, they have different sound levels. One plugged into my B&O System, into which I plug the 7000, sounds louder than the 7000!!! Walter.

Hay Walter,

Your completely right when you say: "Not necessarily the case, there are other factors". Sure sounded good however, and gave the impression I really knew what I was talking about. Yes, there are other factors. The scenario jm offered sort of led me to believe he might be driving his amp too hard. Thought my statement might be of some help to his problem and the understanding of it without clouding up the subject with too much detail. My own system starts to sound like it's caught a cold when I drive it too hard. That was my only thought in stating it the way I did when jm in his example used his CD and KN trials. Sorry if I butchered up the electronics theories using my own theory of explanation. Keep it simple stupid! Ruthie keeps telling me sometimes I'm simply stupid. After all these years I tend to believe her and that's how I came up with this way of doing things. Keep it simple stupid.

Anyway Walter how does your system work with your KN? Do you have any sound problems like we a discussing? Is there any difference in sound quality with or without added sound amplification? Am I the only one that likes my sound system? By the way, what is a B&O system? I like to hear about the equipment and the way it is being used. I have gotten many good tips by listening to how others do things. Saves a lot of wear and tear on my own brain and body when I listen to others. Hope you don’t mind all the questions.

Grandpa Doug

Grandpa Doug,


"Fender amps also are made for guitars and match the output of guitars. That is why you must match the two"

I know the difference between amp guitar and pa. My sound system is a 4 input mono and 2 stereo with 30 - 30K frequency.
A keyboard in a amp guitar have no bass and sound very bad.

"The scenario jm offered sort of led me to believe he might be driving his amp too hard"

May be is that, I think the difference between the CD and KN sound force me to put the sound higher. When you listen to a song in a CD at high volume you have a full complete range of sound. When you listen at KN at full volume, (since KN5000) you have a full rang also but i sound all separated sound. It's clear and you could ear all the sound separately... I dont not if I explain well what I want to tell. (I'm french and I dont find all the word to explain my self well).
In the past I had the KN2000 and two amp speakers (yamaha MS-60) and when I'll play at high volume it was not the same effect. Sure the instrument sound was not good as today but the overall (mixed sound) was great.

Today I fill the mixed instrument sound is not really realism, if you take any sound is terrific.... but togeter is different then before. (before the KN5000)

Hope you understand what I try to explain.

Friendly,
JM

Thanks Doug,
First, I’m a bit deaf; don’t hear anything above 10k htz. Courtesy of the R.A.F. (in the 50’s), and I only play (badly) at home. I find the sounds from the 7000 itself excellent, as others who hear it do. I wonder if some users don’t really grasp the settings of the equaliser, i.e. do the “protect” it from being disabled; I hear a difference when I adjust it. My B&O, Bang & Olufsen, music centre is about 15 years old, 50 watts per channel,( proper watts, both channels driven, full frequency, across the whole bandwidth)!!! I could say it is 100 watts, 200 watts 400 watts 800 watts, and all would be true, but that’s another story. I also own a pair of Philips MFB, (Motional Feed Back) speakers, about 12”x10”x8.” The amp, 30 good watts, is built in, they are about 20 years old, as good as new, when I got them I was told to throw them in the bucket!! Connected to the 7000, with a 10 band graphic equaliser, and using the 7000 speakers also, I am told the sound is superb. The best amp. system I have heard is Bose, don’t know the model, but was told the cost was, £1500, (about 2400 dollars), he used two keyboards and also sang and I was impressed. Early Hi-Fi, 1970’s, the rule was, best at either end, cartridge and speakers, and let the rest look after itself. Probably the best speaker ( mono days) I owned was a Wharfdale SFB 3, Sand Filled Baffle, 3 speakers.. The 3 speakers was a tax loophole, 2 properly matched would have done. But most sound systems were Public Address, and using 3 speakers exempt them from tax. I once hat a pair of Teleton’s with 5 speakers, rubbish, but a great conversion piece!! The B&O speakers have a peculiarity; the tweeters are wired out of phase, but it works. An acquired taste, but effective. I helped a friend set up some new equipment recently, JVC, the tweeters were about 10/12 inches high and shaped like vases, discretely blended in with her ornaments, the sub woofer was hidden behind a curtain and the sound was amazing, a friend who was with me has about 6000 dollars of equipment,( the JVC was 750)., he reckoned the sound was just about as good as his. The law of diminishing returns!!! Enough. Walter.

JM,

I can’t believe it! Amazing! Wonders never cease! I also had a KN2000. I also bought a pair of Yamaha MS 60S self powered monitor speakers. The reason, after trying some others, was they sounded the best to me for the power range I wanted. I made sure I tested all of the products hooked up to my keyboard. Not in the store hooked up to their stuff. To me they looked well built. They were easy for me to carry around. Can be used with floor stands or on tripods. The reason I even considered looking at or considering these was because many of the music stores in my area were using these on their grand pianos having that music disk contraption on them. I figured if they wanted to sell their 50G grand pianos they certainly would use amplification worthy of that high priced piano. So armed with that kind of thinking I went speaker hunting. And that’s the story of how I wound up with what I wound with. I know bad english and sentence structure but I’m getting old. Usually I’m pretty law abiding but once in a while I get a kick out of murdering the english language. What was I talking about? Oh yes, speakers. Anyway JM I still use them, they sounded good with all the boards I ever owned. The 2, 3, 5, 6, 65 and now the 7 thousand. One hundred and twenty watts plus the sixty in my KN all going in the same direction is all I have ever needed for the kind of jobs and music I play. The frequency response of 40 Hz to 20 kHz covers my KN range nicely and at 10 kg or 22 lbs each old grandpa’s eyes don’t bulge out when he carries them in and raises them up on the tripods. My Ruthie always comes along on most of my engagements. She caries in the wires, music and stuff. I haven’t figured out yet if she likes to hear me play or just to keep a check on me. In any event, she inspires me and I like it. Speakers! Oh ya speakers. Well that’s about all I can say about speakers.

Quote; In the past I had the KN2000 and two amp speakers (yamaha MS-60) and when I'll play at high volume it was not the same effect. Sure the instrument sound was not good as today but the overall (mixed sound) was great.

Today I fill the mixed instrument sound is not really realism, if you take any sound is terrific.... but together is different then before. (before the KN5000)

Hope you understand what I try to explain.

Yes JM I think I do. You are right. The way I would state what you are saying is: all sound samples and the mixture of them have more presence. Because more of the, shall I say frequencies and over tones or maybe you might say harmonics are captured with the new samples, You are hearing more and they stand out in the forefront so to speak. Also the new boards can now reproduce them. You might put it this way. The sound seems to be closer to you. The presence is increased because you are hearing more of what the real instrument sounds like. Lets say you are going to a dance of some kind where a big band is playing. You come into the front door and hang up your coat. The band is playing in the other room. Sounds good overall. But kind of like in a distance, so to speak. Cant quite make out any individual instrument but overall good sound. Now you open the door to go into the big room where the band is and all the people. As soon as you open the door the music seems clearer and you can hear people talking. More presence than before. As you walk to the front of the room and close to the band everything becomes sharper and crisper to your ears. You hear the brass section on the right, the reeds in the center, the percussion on the left the rhythm section left center and so on. No more talking, just up front music in stereo. Presence. Some would call it ‘in your face’ type of sound. Shear ecstasy when you are one of the players. I know! What a feeling! That’s what I like about my seven. Exhilarating joy! Back on subject. You will notice there are people sitting up front, some midway and then others prefer to sit in the back. Why? Ask them and you will hear: I don’t like to be too close, more mellow back hear. (Less presence?) Yes! The walls, carpeting, the tables, the people are all absorbing some of the subtle harmonics and such of the instruments and their blending. As you move closer the more presence you hear, the clearer the band and the instruments sound. Also the stereo effect becomes greater. This is what I believe is happening as we move ahead in sound reproduction and greater depth in sampling coupled with great strides in technology. Habits are hard to break. People get set in there ways. They tend to become comfortable with the past. That’s just how it is in this world. But sometimes things are not what they appear on the surface. What I’m getting at is this. Record a song on your keyboard. Play it and stand back 20 to 30 feet. What you hear will be different than you hear sitting at the board. Same as different speaker systems sound different and also the placement. If you place your speakers on the floor you will lose certain spectrums of your sound. If you place them on tripods the sound will be different. Therefore the final product depends on many factors, not just one or two. For that reason it becomes very hard to put your finger on the culprit of your dissatisfaction. Yes JM things change and so do we. Just look in the mirror.

Walter,

Man, sounds like you had a speaker fest going at times. What a relief! Somebody else likes their KN and speaker set up. A friend of mine is in the amp and speaker business. He designs, builds and does sound installations. We worked off and on for a little over a nine month period trying to put together a system that would sound the same as the keyboard. We finally arrived at a combination that pleased us both. This is what I now use in my home. About three years ago I added a sub woofer to the setup. That made all the difference in the world. I can’t hardly describe the difference. The best way I can describe it is to say the setup sounds like I paid many more thousands of dollars for my keyboard than I did. For the home situation today I think I would use only my 7000 and a good sub woofer. Now with the new aux. out on our KN’s I can plug it in directly and not use my mixer. Wish I was young again and could hustle that on to my jobs. But the system I use for that purpose which I described above does a great job. So every thing is cool. Out of phase? Ya, out of phase stuff can make a big difference at times. My sub woofer has a phase switch and makes a big difference in where it is placed in the room. Another one of those contributing factor angles. I think all of these late in life things are keeping my mind young. My body? Ruthie is doing all she can to keep me in good shape. Poor gal, she’s got her hands full trying to keep it up and running. Time for lunch, Ruthie just called so I’ll see you guys later.


Grandpa Doug

What a super explanation of presence, I used to tell customers, imagine sitting in the theatre, 30 rows back, and then move forward to the 3rd. row, that’s presence. This was language they understood, just the same as yours is understandable, great. Walter

Hi Gang,New to the forum, but very impressed and thankful.I own a 7000,about 2 months and currently playing thru a pair of Roland kc500s one word --awesome---But I must admitt when compairing the overall sound to my other boards(roland xp80,roland va7,vk7 and love this box even though I have quite a collection this is a keeper.Keep the forum hot you guys are great. JAXSAX

Welcome! Welcome and Welcome! JAXSAX Welcome! Number one post on this forum. Wow! Now there are three of us who like our keyboard and soundsystem combo. How about giving us guys some insight on your gear, especialy on the KC500's. I know it's hard but try to put into words the differance between the sound emanating from the keyboard speakers and your KC500's. Any differance in total quality? Any tonal differance? Can you add anything to the discussion at hand? Might as well get into the swing of things right at the start.

Grandpa Doug

An Easy Answer To Please All Of Your Audience Would Be To Use Your Headphones

just kidding

Larry Hawk

Thank you Doug,

Your'e explanation are excact, (even if some word that don't understand !) I had made a CD with my KN and if you listen at other position then sit in front of the keyboard it's very different. I never try it before.

Other reason is the sound of the keyboard itself (speaker) are so good then it's sound not better in a sound system vs KN2000...

If I have the money to trade for a KN7000 I was buying soon as he came out ... but...

I tink people like me how are not able to change try to find negative thing on the keyboard to have a reason to not trade. Me I say : the KN7000 is the same as KN6000 with SD card, video out and more sound.... but if I could trade now i will say this is the best keyboard in the world.

But with all the expense....
Someday I may have the KN10000 or ????

Thank's to you Doug for youre explaination and your good judgement !

JM (Jean-Marie)