Been captivated all day with Aretha's Homegoing celebration. Some truly amazing performances, and heartfelt tributes. Gonna miss ya, girl. She was one of a kind.

Some great, some not so great... but they sent her away in style.

I agree Dave (the Rice guy ). Some were great and some sounded like anything but a tribute, but more like an opportunity to put their own ego's on display. Oh well, just listen to the good stuff and tune out the bad (just like on SZ ). They did give it some monumental coverage though, at least on MSNBC and CNN. Since you saw it Uncle Dave, they must have shown some of it on Fox News as well....kidding, kidding, couldn't resist, the devil made me do it, I thought you were Gary, etc., etc. I PRE-apologize, I'll never do it again, etc., etc.

Just having a little fun. It WAS a great tribute and well deserved by a true American treasure. RIP Aretha.

chas

Sure you will ...

And, yes RIP, Aretha ...

Chas - (haha) I watched on You Tube, since I no longer have a TV subscription.
It started out weak, with a horrendous attempt at vocal riffs by Faith Hill, but got better after she left the stage. Stevie's "Lord's Prayer" was amazing towards the end. Maybe the best I've heard. I liked some performances a lot (His eye is on the sparrow - Ron Isley), and some ... not so much (Jen Hudson's Amazing Grace), but I was still drawn to the outpouring of emotion and love for this amazing woman. Up until the final Eulogy, it was all about the Queen. I think the minister who closed the ceremony went a bit off path, but you could tell he was sincere in his message. Aretha sure will be missed, as an artist, but more importantly, as a person. She made quite an impact on those who knew her, and it was touching to see the tributes.

Well said Dave, especially Stevie's 'Lord's Prayer'. I haven't been so moved by a harmonica since he did 'Fingertips' as a 12 yr. old.

chas

Agreed. I think it's my favorite thing he's ever done. So soulful, so moving, and poignant. Best tribute of the night.

Jennifer did it right for Areatha..Wow

While I appreciated her power, and passion, I didn't like her phrasing. She cut off too many syllables, and disconnected the sentences. Words were choppy. At first, I thought she was running out of air, but she sustained many long tones, so I guess it was a creative choice. I just didn't care for it.

oh well dave who are we to judge right?....for ME best tribute of the whole show. She certainly moved alot of people including myself.

For me, phrasing is the most important aspect of singing. I think she missed the mark. Maybe emotions came into play, but I just don't like when singers cut words in half between breaths.

Sorry Donny... I thought it was terrible..

She screamed her way to the point I had to stop listening.

Very unmusical..

Hudson has not lived up to the hype... TV made... and the weight loss was also used to push her along..

I have heard so many great versions of amazing grace over the years.. from many of my personal friends.. and by contrast this video takes away from a great hymn..

Gosh Fran, it's hard to criticize someone for losing excess weight; what difference does it make what it was used for. Also, I don't think many people would deny that she has incredible pipes. I think Dave can fairly say that he doesn't like the way she did this particular song (and he was very specific about why), but to say she doesn't live up to the hype??? After a Grammy, an Oscar, command performances for presidents, numerous musical awards, and millions of records sold, what 'hype' does she have to live up to (for you)? I'm sure YOU'VE done some things that YOU thought were 'smokin' but that left others uh, cold. Sure, (rating) music is subjective BUT there are still some standards for 'good' and 'bad'. NOBODY is ever going to say that William Hung is 'good', not even his momma .

In this particular case, I mostly agree with Dave, but that has a lot to do with the song, which I consider kind of 'sacred'...IOW, not to be tinkered with too much, sorta' like The Star Spangled Banner. I'll give her a pass this time because I am so aware of her enormous talent and because I think real emotion played a huge part in her performance.

chas

Chas, most of my response was to her performance of amazing grace..

Of course she has talent, but also had every opportunity to succeed. And they did use her celebrity as a weight loss success story via advertising.


There were a lot of American Idol "stars" that were overrated because of TV exposure..


Rachelle could have topped that performance

BTW: I seen both Dave and Donny lose a hundred pounds... it didn't help their stardom

I lost a hundred pounds in high school... she was one of my favorite girlfriends

Ouch....

Given who she is, what she is, and where she grew up, I could write a 100 page rebuttal to that. I guess things just APPEAR easy for those who have succeeded against all odds.



Yeah, but she ain't one of them. Why is it so hard to give someone like Jennifer the credit she deserves.



Russ is going to KILL you .



Wow, looks like she dodged a bullet .

Your BFF

chas

There are MANY people who are "given every opportunity to succeed", but then are unwilling or unable to put in the work it takes to actually BECOME a success ... Jennifer Hudson has obviously put in the work - more power to her ...
'nuff said ...

Me too!! But not before I suffered severe brain damage. That's not singing...that's what it sounds like when you have constipation!

Dave: You are so 100% correct about "phrasing" and it's importance. (The greatest chink in my musical armor... and it often leaves me strewn about the battlefield in disarray.)

I also appreciated your "take" on Ms. Hudson's performance. Then there was the young lady who failed to dress properly for the funeral... and then had to perform in front of Slick Willie and the Right Reverend Jackson... as they leered with delight and compared notes behind her. Aretha deserved better.

Aside from all the negative replies...
I think Aretha was looking down from heaven with a big smile on her face listening to Jennifer perform this song.

I believe you are right, Donny. She was a class act and will be missed so much.

The setting for this funeral was a large Black Baptist church; the theme for this funeral was purposely staged to reflect the very essense of Aretha, who was deeply rooted in the Black church (her father was the Rev. C.L. Franklin, a very prominent minister in Detroit). The music (and Jenifer's performance of it) was very representative of what might normally be heard in a large Black urban Baptist church. It is very much a part of the culture, a culture that Aretha was very much a part of. It is heavily reflected in blues, jazz, and folk music. For millions of people (including our own DNJ) it was a beautiful, heartfelt performance. So to hear such criticism from someone who more than likely has never set foot in a Black church or has a clue about the culture surrounding it, equating it to 'constipation', is just the epitome of disrespect, insensitivity, and downright ignorance.

I love Donny's response to this:


Thanks Donny.

chas

Thanx Chas...... Even though I was brought up catholic I have been to a few of my friends Baptist church services and enjoyed them emensly.... The music, energy, and message from the reverend was super inspiring something I will never forget.

Maybe it was appropriate for the situation, but I don't need to recognize and step into someone else's environment to reconsider my opinion. It's NOT singing, period! It's screaming no matter how you slice the pie. She simply tried too hard turning herself into a caricature of Aretha Franklin.

It's not an insult to Aretha or anyone else of color or any church. My remark was directed toward the vocalist. It would have been the same remark if she was singing that way at a baseball game.

Why do you have to blow things out of proportion and play the "race card" every time someone writes something here that offends you? What offended ME is you referring to me as someone who is "the epitome of disrespect, insensitivity, and downright ignorance." Maybe you need to wear that label yourself!

Mark

Mark, sorry Gospel singing makes you constipated but I'm sure a little French Musette will quickly reverse your condition. I guess we should count ourselves lucky to have such an in-house expert to define for us in no uncertain terms what is singing and what is not. So I guess Jenifer should take take all of her awards, accolades, and gazillion dollar bank account and just pack it in since clearly, according to the Book of Mark, she can't sing. But hey, who knows, maybe she can start a new career doing Ex-Lax commercials.

I also ran across this opinion clip which doesn't quite line up with YOUR assessment, but which I thought you might find interesting anyhow. Have a good day Mark, don't forget your meds .

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-...-htmlstory.html

Your good friend,

chas

You're absolutely right, it would. French Musette has a longer history of beauty in music than Jennifer Hudson has. It will also remain long after this type of synthetic singing has faded. That, my friend, is a "track record” that she will never attain.



I'd prefer you refer to me as someone who is not afraid to speak his mind and stand by what he says! But also who remains a gentleman especially when lame accordion jokes are bandied about and he sees "red" every time he reads yours, but still rolls with the punches instead of "blowing it out of proportion!"




No, she CAN’T sing. She can scream and she can "stylize" a song but she can't "sing." I don't know what your musical background is but apparently you never listened to Opera. She's an insult to every Opera singer who spent years and years (and tons of time and money) studying his craft. She's also an insult to such greats as Lena Horne, Diana Ross, Whitney Houston, Etta James, Natalie Cole, etc As for her many accolades.....consider the source. She wouldn’t have lasted a second in the era when people were enveloped in the Great American Songbook days.

Lloyd Bentsen said to Dan Quayle in a Presidential debate: "Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy." I say: "Jennifer, you're no Aretha Franklin!"



Yes, that's what she should be doing instead of giving good singing a bad name.



Producing "opinion clips" is like "slanting the news" as it's done in media coverage of politics.

But.....my assessment is an "assessment".....that I, myself, own and stand with. Don't try to label it as attempting to spread the Gospel according to Mark.....King of Kings. Like YOU do with your authoritative opinion of accordion music!



I see you haven't lost the art of insulting.



Chas, you will not be a good friend to me, or any kind of a friend, until you apologize for those remarks you made about me...."the epitome of disrespect, insensitivity, and downright ignorance."

On the positive side, I consider you a master of "word usage" and poignant thinking and I always enjoy reading your posts which I find to be well thought out. But you need to harness those qualities and use discretion instead of treating other members here with a lack of respect and an overabundance of disdain (as you did with one of the other members here a few weeks ago).

Wasn’t Aretha famous for a song about this R.E.S.P...... you know the one . Kinda ironic really in a thread about her death .

Mark, Mark, Mark; when you make a declaritive statement like "she CAN'T SING", it has no validity unless it is pretty much a universal opinion. Clearly, all the evidence (you know, the accolades, the awards, the bank account) says that's not the case. I'm perfectly fine with someone saying they don't like it (and here's why I don't like it). It's human nature (it appears) for people to be wary of things outside their comfort zone. Clearly, this musical form (I hesitate to say Black Gospel music lest I be accused of playing the "race card") is outside your comfort zone. And that's the point I was trying to make. Because you don't understand something or are unfamiliar with it is no reason to demean it, even more so the person performing it. As far as my 'accordion jokes', I think everyone on this forum knows that it's just a long-running tease between me and Fran or Tony. Truth is, it's just another instrument to me; fits well in some genre's, not so well in others, just like my beloved B3. I'm sure there are lovers of theatre organ that detest the sound of the "888" B3, but it bothers me not in the least. As far as the "your best friend" thing, I thought someone with your level of sophistication would recognize it for the sarcasm it was.

Mark, if I went to a Jewish Temple or a Islamic Mosque or a Catholic cathederal, and didn't like the musical vocalizations of the Rabbi, Imman, or Priest, I hope that I would not be arrogant enough to declare that they 'couldn't sing'. If it were being performed at say the funeral of the Pope, I certainly would not equate it to the sounds of someone suffering from constipation. I don't think bristling at your comment is "playing the race card" at all. As Spalding said, it's about R-E-S-P-E-C-T. Oh, and about that apology, ehhhhhhhhhh.........nah.

chas

I have often said there is only two or three types of music I don't like, opera and broadway musicals. Reason is fairly simple. I can't understand the lyrics of either. I have never cared for the Morman Tabernacle choir, for the same reason. Now do I call any of this music bad? No, I just don't care for it. I have a great deal of trouble getting on with accepting other peoples praise and complements for music I can't understand. I guess you might call me shallow. Oh well. Shallow it is. This whole thread is just a little over the top. Bottom line, no one has the right to question my taste. Its mine and its just as valid as is yours.

Chas.....there's only one thing I want to hear right now. That's an apology from you for those remarks you made about me. Period!!! Or are you afraid you'll break out in a rash if you do so?

Wage your war of words with someone else. I really believe you can't sleep at night unless you find someone daily to go into battle with whether it's here, there or anywhere!

Until I get that apology I really don't want any communication with you. That's how strongly I feel about your insults.

Mark

As a Detroiter I can't believe the hype and overproduction of the entire ordeal. Political speeches and appearances from musicians and entertainers turned this week-long wake into a ten-hour debacle of a finale. I think the heavenly choir sat with Aretha and critiqued the funeral as much as we have. lol

That was really humorous Mark. Just like going ballistic over a accordion joke . For the record, I bet if we met in person......we still wouldn't be friends . But hey, if you can't communicate with me, you've still got Donny, plus, he's more forgiving than I am . I hope you're noticing all these smiley faces 'cause I find it too difficult to take you/this seriously. You know, we should have taken this over to the bar long ago since clearly you don't seem to have a great deal of interest in arranger keyboards. For me, they attract a lot of very interesting people....and a few dweebs. In the meantime, think about ways to toughen up a bit so you don't get so worked up by these perceived 'insults'. Oh, and next time you take up jazz piano, try to pick up a few Gospel licks, you might get a little infusion of 'soul'. Who knows?



chas

Well Cass, I agree with you 100%. It was probably three times as long as it needed to be. I'm guessing Aretha was glad she didn't have to listen to the whole thing . I still liked Stevie's rendition of the Lord's Prayer. A lot of the other stuff seemed a little self-indulgent.

chas

Jennifer has a tendency to scream a little and overload the mike. Ironically, one recent video I found was a duet with Jennifer and Rachelle Farrell...guess it was two non-singers wasting everyone's time.


The shame here is the unreasonably vicious reaction to Chas' comments.

Mark, you're a bigger man than that.


Russ

Expanding Jennifer's comfort Zone.

Jerryghr

Just amazing wow!!!




Thanx Jerry for sharing!

Thanks a lot Jerry....I'll remember that!!!

Hey I made it through a minute and a half


She is no Streisand

I think her style is "not my cup of tea" as you say..

Actually, me neither, Fran.

Sometimes, improvements actually result in the opposite.

R.

Well I guess the big standing ovation means something.....?
maybe a Sunday trip to a Baptist church might change your mind somewhat
giving you a deeper knowledge of what it's all about.
I did that years ago and learned plenty but that's me.

That's a noble sentiment Donny, and I applaud your attitude, but I think that's a most unlikely scenario. As Jesse Jackson pointed out many years ago, "the most segregated time in America is 10 o'clock Sunday morning" . I don't think it's necessary to immerse ones' self in another culture in order to RESPECT it; wouldn't you want someone to do the same for YOURS? What we like and don't like in music is very much shaped by cultural filters and the environment we grew up in. Most of us grew up in a time when there were great cultural divisions and the current climate seems to indicate that we are returning to that. WE are old, our attitudes are set in stone and we are unlikely to change. Hopefully, our children and our children's children will take whatever goodness we have left and expand on that. There are still a lot of good people in this world, including here on Synthzone.

chas

Chas I respect everyone's beliefs ....my short experience there was eye opening as the OP says MESMERIZED and really moving ...
something I will always remember....
nuff said.

now can we get back to arranger kbs...

Russ...I think you got that in reverse. It should have read something like the "unreasonably vicious reaction to Mark's simple one line comment."

And, Russ....you're a bigger intelligence not to have seen that yourself. But then again, it seems the "good old boys" always stick together.

Mark

But Mark, I'm WHITE!

I kid...I kid. Truth is, I like both you folks, and hate to be inadvertently stuck in the middle.

Russ

10 minutes...the three of us on a bandstand would erase all this foolishness.

Be well, all

Yes take pics and video!

Anybody know any French Musette music with a walking bass line . I'll bring the Kaopectate .

chas

I just went back and read Mark's post in question.

HOW SAD!

Chas, looks like it will be a duo, unless I can talk Rachelle and Jennifer to join us.

To quote A hero, Senator McCain..."WE'RE BETTER THAN THAT".
Chas isn't the one who should rephrase his post.

What's appropriate is sincere appreciation for the life, talent and humanity of Aretha, both as a musician/singer and as an agent of cultural change that made the world a better place.

Saying anything more would be disrespectful.


Russ

Chas....why don't you quit while you're ahead with me. Sparky laid into me a while back and I let it go because it was a "one-time" only. You're a repeat offender and you're getting on my nerves.

Why don't you do something useful and productive with yourself. You're in a "music group".....try talking music for a change like the rest of the group does instead of these lame jokes of yours designed only to annoy!