I wonder how many arranger players are interested in a unit like this vs an all in one arranger kb

I would take this (76 model) over any of the MOTL arrangers. I would take the PA4x and/or the Genos IF they were the same price (that's never going to happen). This is because 1) this unit offers more sonic possibilities; and 2) I have no strong desire for an arranger KB at this time. Plus, this thing has a lot of bang-for-the-buck; I'm seriously considering ordering (pre-ordering actually) one. I'm just afraid I'll still want a dedicated TOTL digital piano.

chas

Good luck with it Chas keep us posted awaiting
your in depth review of modx ..

Its not a matter of choice between...

The question should be, how many people would like to have the features of both in their rig....

A lot of arranger players, but not many pro (Synth/Workstation) players, pro players have to take into account cost as well as features and the extra cost of adding the arranger features would make them too expensive, (Plus they tend to look down on arrangers) arranger players are primarily home hobby players (This is who the arranger keyboard is targeted at) who don’t mind spending the extra to get extra features, as it’s for their pleasure, not financial gain. (Plus they tend to get intimidated by complex features even though it is just psychological)

Bill

The high end instrument being to complex and overwhelming in general is a non issue in the highest category of instruments.. (except for the Genos).. because in general anyone making use of a high end instrument with all these features should be an experienced player in the first place.. as other-ways he might have been much better off in a cheaper category of products... but then i can imagine companies wanting to sell their most expensive products to everyone.. In the Genos its clear they made the interface very accessible.. which should be this way also if they implement other new high end features..

in any other business there always is a product with all the top features and everything a company has in it..

take for example Yamaha..(mobile product range)

if you want top end piano sounds..CP-4
IF you want top end arranger sounds.. Genos
If you want top end ARPS.. Montage
If you want slider and knobs with visual feedback .. Genos/Montage
If you want 8 sounds split and layered freely over the keyboard .. Montage
If you want a sequencer.. Genos
IF you want on board sound edditting .. Montage
if you want Audio over USB and DAW controll.. Montage
If you want ensemble or SA2 sounds.. Genos
If you want FM synthesis.. Montage
If you want a VH onboard.. Genos
If you want 88 keys with aftertouch Montage
If you want 88 keys with escapement CP-4

You probably saw my point by now..

In the end i have said a million time.. its just software, and its already programmed, that it would make the instruments much more expensive is what corporations want you to believe..

The whole marketing idea behind Yamaha is that they want to sell you multiple keyboards.. and they are doing great in that department.. As quite a lot of people own both an arranger as well as a workstation/performance synth/DP

Having to buy 2 instruments(or more) in the case of a pro player will always cost more then a single instrument with all the features..

The MODX in particular shows that all those high end features of the montage, don't have to be expensive.. and can easily be added to the Genos... or even a new range of instruments incorporating the best of all 3 Yamaha choices..

Things like 8 voices for main part easilly controllable trough the sliders, should not cost much resources.. when added to lets say the genos..

Same goes for adding the DAW controll/USB audio, or arps and motion sequences for every of the 8 tracks.. its all software..

Also there is a lot of complaints about the Genos(and even the montage) piano sounds on psrtutorial.com and yamahasynthforum.com fact is that with the virtual technollogy not implemented on the Montage and Genos, Piano will never sound as authentic as on the Yamaha piano range that costs half or even less money. Doesn't a 5000 dollar instrument the best piano sound you can deliver?

The only reason its not in the Genos is not money, but the marketing strategy of Yamaha of trying to sell you more then one instrument. Another example is the MOXD thats extremely light and really close in performance to MONTAGE, is many gigging players considering to buy a MOXD on top of their MONTAGE, just for portabillity, size and weight.


Now we should not talk about 88 keys for Genos, thats indeed a whole different discussion.. but the other parts should not be hard to implement.


As allways on this topic, i disagree with probably most here.. altough i am sure with time, more and more people will come to see it my way.. why doesn't yamaha's piano partner app that has many lovely features on the ipad function with the moxd8? .. and no, its not just Yamaha, Roland has allways been the champion of this strategy, and Korg is starting to walk on the same road.. So financially i guess, these companies get better by this strategy.. The only looser is the customer.. and thats us..

HI Bachus

What you say is correct, but you have forgotten one vitally important problem, and it has nothing to do with software, (As you say that is easy to implement) it’s the fact that there are 3 separate teams at work here (Piano, Synth & Arranger) which would need to be combined, and this would become extremely problematical as jobs would be duplicated, different philosophy’s would not go well together (Which could mean some of the top designers going elsewhere) and redundancy’s would have to be made, this is further complicated as the design teams in big companies are spread worldwide, so it would take considerable restructuring (And financial resources) to achieve, then there is the problem that profits would fall as they would only be selling one type of instrument rather than 3, so don’t expect any changes in the near future.
As technology advances the instruments will automatically be combined into a new single venture (Any name suggestions) with one new design team, (This will be because of consumer demand (Basically the young get older and the oldies die off) as styles change) however it will probably be some time yet as the move will be generational. (Whichever way you look at it, the instruments we play today are a dying (As are their players) but it is always difficult to predict how much time they have left)

Bill

Actually there is 4 teams with yamaha...

One team that develops all the technical features and programming..

And then there are the teams that implement them into the keyboards.. this team also works closely together with the content teams..


But all the technical parts and programming come from one single team... there is for example one AWM2 engine in both montage as modx as psr as genos.. all the same engine.. comming from one team..

The product team decides on sub features, like edditing capabilities, and the technical team implements them again in the product.. so if an arranger team decides there needs to be a feature from the montage in the genos2... its teh same technical team that implements it...

We also know that the synth product team is in the US, the arranger team is in Germany and the piano team is in Japan.. all teams also have an extension at the Japan headquarters.. that closely works together with the technical team

You have confirmed what I said; all manufactures have different teams all over the world that would need to be combined.
BTW Virtually all of the sounds and features for Yamaha arrangers (Particularly the top models) are done by the UK team, with input also from Germany.

Bill