Recently, I contacted a major on-line retailer about expanding their line of high end arrangers/modules some of which they do carry. This is a very successful retailer.

This was the response I got.

“The arranger business in the US is really tiny and dwindling down. We’ve looked at it multiple times but haven’t been able to identify any business that we think we could have real success with. We also have had only one or two requests over the years from customers so it’s tough to justify from that point of view.”

Thought I would share.

Also, when I consider the number of new stage pianos and synthesizers brought to market each year compared to arrangers...I’m not sure I could argue the retailers concern.

Yes, I agree that arranger keyboard are declining here in the US. But why are they still popular in other places in this world?

John C

Arranger keyboards have their day just like the electronic organs from which they spawned, sales in the USA have always been miniscule compared to the rest of the world, so a drop off won’t really be noticeable.
In Europe, arranger sales are also on the decline, (Just ask any of the dealers) hence a lot of arranger manufactures have left the market, or have released just minor updates to a model and extended replacement of other models. (Usually the TOTL ones)
Asian countries are still fairly balanced.
Eastern countries are still on the rise as when the market was buoyant in the west; it was virtually none existent in the East, so it’s a matter of catch up with new ways (For Eastern players) of doing things.
If you look at what the current generation of music requires, (And even the previous generation) there is virtually nothing in an arranger that has any relevance, so as the later generations die out, so will the arranger just like its forerunner the electronic organ. (Note: there will always be a niche market remaining for it, just like there is for all older types of instruments)

Bill

Yep as usual its all about money and making a profit as it should be .....arrangers are becoming dinosaurs sadly..and hanging on the the "Old Wooden Home Organ" scenario.....it's had it's time and I am glad I was a part of it.
to many other ways to make music.

Bill I agree,.....using an arranger kb to produce yesterdays music is what it was intended for,...with today's music being created in so many new ways an arranger kb can only do so much, mostly a scratch pad regarding new younger styles of music and can never compete with what we hear today and why should it?. There are many other ways in today's world to create music and people are taking advantage of all the tools available as they should. That doesn't mean you as a player cannot enjoy whatever you choose to play at home or maybe for an audience that enjoys the same kind of music but any gigging musician can definitely see the changes going on and by the constant "Requests" for newer popular music that they hear on the radio which cannot be reproduced by only the lonely arranger keyboard, and you will need other resources to stay in the game today, it's always been that way,..yes it's sad, and yes it's becoming a Bygone Era that most of us still around embrace, but as all things don't last forever you must accept it and move on keeping yourself happy along the way somehow. (sigh)

Great post Bill Thanx

That was a great article to read..... It explains it perfectly !!!!

Good analysis, Bill. At 75, and playing the senior circuit, I figure my Pa3x will see me the rest of the way. What happens beyond that really has no bearing. You live the generation you're handed and the continuum of time will, well, continue.

....and yet, whether on TV, in a bar or club or concert stage, the configuration we see 99% of the time will be some combination/variation of guitar, bass, drums, and keyboard (throw in an occasional horn or two). And guess what, for your average musically-challenged audience, an arranger keyboard in the hands of a skilled professional can do a fair job of recreating musically what the average bar band is doing. What's missing, of course, is the visual effect. I'd be willing to bet that if you just grabbed three or four scruffy-looking characters off the street, gave them real (but unplugged) instruments and had them 'fake' the instrument parts (lip sync, 'air guitar', etc.), while the actual music was being played by an arranger, 90% of the audience wouldn't be the wiser. Just make sure you play it (the arranger) 75% louder than usual .

But yeah, they will always be a niche market. Not because they aren't accepted by audiences, but because they aren't accepted by professional musicians. There will be the deniers (there always are) but it's a fact - and the sales figures show it.

Bottom line, sure Arrangers are a lot of fun (for some) but as a 'gig' instrument, it's hard for an audience to see ONE guy simultaneously playing 8 orchestral parts without thinking "ummm, something's fishy". Older nursing home residents may not mind but everyone else sure seems to. JMO.

chas

Agreed. The senior crowd just enjoy the music, as it should be. They're not bothered by how it's produced. I think that goes for significant other segments of the paying customers, too. Bottom line, everyone wants to be happy. They're not sitting there analysing everything.

Many years ago, I was attempting to get a job at a certain venue. I was told there had to be a least two in the "band". I told them no problem.
I had a good friend who almost always came to see me wherever I played. I got out one of my guitars, and he sat on the stage with me, in front of a mic, strumming away, although he didn't know a C from a Q chord. He soon started interacting with the audience and announcing songs.
Of course the guitar wasn't plugged in. Everybody loved it. They would even come up and make requests from the "guitar player". Over time I taught him some chords and he actually learned to be a semi-decent guitar player, long after this job ended.

I sincerely believe all to this is cyclic. I can clearly remember times in my life when every kid was taking piano lessons and there was a piano teacher in every neighborhood. What happened?

I also recall when lots of kids were taking trumpet lessons in school - those days are gone forever. Same was true with trombone, which my grandson is learning how to play.

The local music store here in my town has 5 arranger keyboards in stock, and they have all been there for quite a while. The rest of the store, which is immense, holds more than 500 guitars, a similar number of amps and mixers, a couple dozen drum sets, and more accessories than anyone can imagine. Additionally, they offer lessons for all instruments, the vast majority of students, though, take guitar lessons.

Remember when keytars were the craze?

I wouldn't get upset about any of this, arranger keyboards, organs and electric pianos will still be readily available long after we are all dead and buried.

Gary

It is hard to understand the reasons why arranger keyboards are going down when I am so in love with mine.

John C.

Gary, I don't much disagree with the other statements in your post, but this one is just incorrect. I have seen many middle schools and high schools where there are students learning all the horns and woodwinds and are members of school marching bands, orchestras, jazz bands, etc. etc.
Fortunately, music studies are alive and well in most school systems ...

My grandson plays trumpet in his middle school marching band, guitar in his rock band and is about to join the jazz band on trumpet. He's also heavily into recording. From my perch, I'd say Tony is correct. Things don't seem too different from when I was in school. I played horn and trumpet in the school orchestra throughout high school.

chas

arrangers in the US have never been a big deal..

Europe allways has been atrranger country,
but even here its falling slowly

Many parts of south east asia and the middle east, is where the arranger is still going strong
Thats why korg has a middle east version
And Rolands EA7 is aimed at that market

China, biggest country in the world
Is more of a DP country
Europe is also slowly going that way

Many younger people trying to make music have no clue about musical theory
Dont even play an instrument these days
they just use mouse and tablet and some hardware

In the western world the typical arranger is slowly dying
However, its fun to see more and more dig piano's sprouting arranger features
trough the ipad apps that come with them.

Worldwide digital piano sales are better then ever..

Here in the U.S. folks are more apt to buy a synthesizer or a stage piano than an arranger. I get it.

Still, one advantage with an arranger, folks with little or no keyboard experience can be playing songs in a short while.

Not sure that's an advantage WHEN MARKETING TO MUSICIANS; the general public, maybe, but not musicians. Despite arguments to the contrary, sales figures don't lie.

chas

Most pro musicians don't even know what an arranger kb is ......
just ask a few of them......they are just thinking toy casio kb sold in big box stores for $199.00 for kids....digital pianos and synths rule the roost on a pro stage just look around thats the way it is..
its the "Automaticness" and "Repetition" of an arranger kb that turns them off ......real musicians want to create music not operate an auto accompaniment machine....sad but true.

Guess my earlier post a couple of months ago fits in well here, at least this part:

"As to the second issue, public performing and entertaining, giggin if you like, I think the shift to different approaches is becoming more and more apparent and imho will ultimately phase out the arranger keyboard altogether. Luckily for most of us here on the forum we will probably not live to see the day, although……

As remarked by others the audiences these days , with the possible exception of folks in an old people’s home ,want to be entertained and do not really care whether the entertainer is actually playing his keyboard or just pretending for instance by using midifiles and adding the odd note here and there. Worse than that, more and more I visit places or occasions where there is no longer a keyboard but either a performer with an acoustic guitar ( amplified) which is great really, or just a performer with a mike, a good voice, a decent amp ( Roland Streetcubes are quite the thing here) and a stack of high quality Backing Tapes.

The advantages are obvious. Less gear to drag along, less efforts to make and prepare, you can’t go wrong with playing, your amplification can be very small and portable and your investment likewise. A wireless mike would be the icing of the cake but even with a decent wired mike you are okay. Only problem is the amount of dough required to invest in purchasing decent backing tapes in your vocal range. Mind you I am not saying this is something I welcome but it sure looks like this is going to be the future.

And the audiences ? They could not care less cause they want to be entertained. And they want to hear their favourite popsongs as close to the original as possible. And even with all of our songstyles ( in particular on the Yammies) we cannot get as close to the original than many of the current high quality backing tracks, see below.

So all in all not a rosy picture for the arranger keyboard I admit, unless of course you want to do with it what its name suggests: ARRANGE, that is get away from replicating the original popsong for the sake of a public performance but use it at home or in the studio to either arrange your own compositions or make new and refreshing arrangements for classic popsongs in a way that is not done with the Backing Tracks however superb and true to the original they may be"



John Smies

Chas, you’re quite right when marketing to musicians. However, as has been discussed ad infinitum, arrangers are targeted at the home player.

I’ve started a couple of folks with little musical or keyboard experience on arrangers. And, I may be doing a community ed. presentation on them.

Also, the school that I teach at periodically has a dozen or so basic arrangers to teach basic keyboard in their music class.

If students take to the arranger, many will move on to some sort of piano.

We should be happy all things have the longevity and arranger keyboards from the big wooden organs to today's models have had their time and a pretty long run also at that too. Its a slow fade out until baby boomers are all gone and the new wave filters in bringing with them new ideas on creating music.

So arrangerkeyboardplayers, according to this statement is not
real musicians, just buttonpushers that plays midi and mp3's?
If they only knew all the possabilities the modern arranger have.......

exactly..... but, non arranger KB education and years of home organ type cast influence veered pros away from learning about them.
But it's the constant repetition of "style play"
that is the #1 culprit turn off for many pro KB players I talk to who rather create songs from scratch their way. Or play with others in a band situation etc..

Good, reasoned response from Donny, Chas (of course), Tony, Gunner and others.

I'm in the communications business, and, over the years, everything, from hot type, to letterpress, to FAX MACHINES, to computers, it's all changed, for the better, I GUESS.

I would miss the arranger work I do for roughs, but for performance, not so much.

Thing is, if you want to play, you'll find a way.

After all, we've got to KEEP SYNTHZONE ALIVE AND KICKING!

Be well, friends,


Russ

Hi, think there’s always been a bit of a prejudice against the arranger keyboard ( or over here, anyway). The majority were sold in Piano/ Organ stores, basically aimed towards the home user. The so called pro shops that sold synths, guitars, recording gear etc really only stocked the low end arrangers . ( probably there was the odd exception). Changed a bit when the korg i2/i3 arrived in the 90’s, that was the only high end keyboard the boss Kept in stock.

I remember dropping into my technics dealer many years ago. He was bristling with anger . His feelings were really hurt. Haha.
He’d just had a young guy come in looking for a keyboard? He showed him the kn’s . Response was , no thank you , I’m looking for a Real keyboard like they play in the bands. Obviously he was after a synth,