First lets start keyboard workstations like korg kronos, yamaha montage and modx, roland FA series

So what does a synth workstation combined with an arranger module have to offer that we can not find in todays arranger keyboards?

- where todays arrangers are limited to 3 right and 1 left sound. The workstations allow 8 up to 16 sounds directly connected and split and layered over the keyboard..

- these can be local or remote parts, remote parts are easily defined by midi channel/bank change/program change instead of an instrument name

-to each of these parts, arp’s karma, motion sequences and more can be assigned..

- all comtrollers like sliders and knobs can be programmed freely with both internal as well as external cc parameters.

- they all function as a usb audio interface, allowing for much better daw controll

All of this makes for an incredible versatile setup.. not just controlling the arranger module and internal sounds at the same time.. but also with enough options to controll other modules and a daw/vst sounds at the same time..
This goes far beyound whats possible with todays arrangers. Altough for other things like playing midi files and audio files, i think arrangers (including modules) offer a better experience


Next up, there is high end stage piano’s. These don’t offer the arps/ multiple voices nor the daw controll, but quite a few of them have external channels for controlling other devices..

Kawai mp11 3int sounds + 4external
Roland RD2000 8 channels each can be int or ext or both..
Nord stage with 6 int sounds + 2 external
Casio px-5s 4 int sounds + 4 external

These also make great controllers for an arranger module
Altough with only 2 channels the nord stage can not controll more then left and right hand sounds on the arranger... so does not have much more room for controlling other devices or a laptop at the same time, but it does have a nice build in arp..


And then there are the traditional masterkeyboards.. they don’t offer sounds/audio interface but often come with programmable buttons knobs.. but i don’t see much reason for combining an arranger module with a masterkeyboard.. because it would be easier to just buy a normal arranger keyboard.. where the other 2 options add a lot more depth..



And then there is using a module with an organ... also a great solution but the organs are to diverse to put under this topic..


And lastley controlling an arranger module with an arranger.. in general arrangers are less suited controllers then the other 3 options above.. as they lack much of the flexibillity to become a great midi controller.. but a ketron sd90 combined with a genos would give a bit more style flexibillity..

A great topic. I look forward to getting my Numa Compact 2x. Still, I might have to use another piece of gear to call up patches in external arranger modules. Since both hands are busy playing, I'd say that a midi foot controller is a good way to do it. However, some fancy midi foot controllers can be up there between $1,500 to $2,000.

Yes, this is indeed a very interesting topic.

Lately I am having great fun using V-Console for Genos software to drive Genos as the upper keyboard, the Kronos 2 88 as the lower keyboard, and Roland PK5 as the bass pedal. I can trigger chord changes for style progression from both Genos and Kronos, with the flexibility of playing different voices from the two keyboards.

In order to achieve a stable home studio type setup which allows me to hookup additional devices or maintain existing connections, I bought a Jaspers 4S-150S A-Frame anodized aluminum keyboard stand for this combo, achieving very clean floor space:


The sounds from the Kronos with EXs45 KApro "Symphonic Dreams 2 Orchestra & Strings" library are incredible. The EXs17 Berlin D Piano makes the CFX Concert Grand on Genos sound thin and tiny. Mixing the sounds of Genos and Kronos is much more enjoyable than playing Genos alone.

My next steps:
1. Get additional Jaspers keyboard accessories to hold the laptop and iPad Pro 12.9 to free up more floor space on the left.
2. Replace the Roland PK5 13-note pedal with a 24 to 25-note MIDI pedal - 13-notes is too limiting.
3. Work on making some dummy voice files for Genos to access some of my favorite sounds of Roland Integra 7 - this may take a long while.

Thanks,
Paul

nice setup, but also the reason i am cutting down to a single keyboard (kronos88) an sd90, some modules (integra, gemini, motif XS) and macbook (Mainstage/VST) and Ipad..

We originally got interested in Ketron while working with a few folks over on WersiClubUSA. We have been a long time Wersi owner and started that site to share and learn with other Wersi owners. Here's an example of using our Wersi OAX 700 as a "controller" with our SD40. In this example we use the Wersi as a controller and have a mix of Ketron and Wersi sounds being played along with just the drums from a Ketron style since we play pedals on the organ.

Mix-n-Match Wersi and Ketron

I remeber this, thats where your love for Ketron comes from..
Wersi is a great controller for ketron modules
To bad its not possible to use the wersi controlls ..

If I am being honest I just don't understand how a player using all these controllers & gadgets while trying to play and sing a song can do that without the flow being abrupt, choppy, and a navagitional nightmare?......we can talk all day and buy all the gear and setup anyway you want but in the end talk is cheap,....I learn by watching people play and use their instruments getting and absorbing from their talents to use in my own music....but I hardly ever see the players who have all this stuff in their rigs so I can learn more from it...what am I missing here...?


and yes I'll say it.....

"THOUGHTS"?

Donny, you're right but you have to consider that very few of these 'gear-rich' people 'gig' (perform publicly) so ergonomics is not that important. Since most of their activity involves playing for pleasure and/or multi-track recording, what's most important to them is having the biggest possible arsenal of sounds and effects to create their music (to be listened to after the fact, not live). I have lived in both worlds so I sort of 'get it'. And then there's the fact that some of us are just gear junkies and are just as interested in the technology as they are in the music. Nothing wrong with that as long as you've got enough left to buy shoes for the kids .....oh, what the heck, let 'um go barefoot .

Well, you asked for 'THOUGHTS'.

chas

Bachus - I agree there are a few things not entirely implemented in the current Wersi OAX code that would be helpful, especially on the MIDI side of things. The good news is on the Wersi side we can create what they call a "user sound" that will call up any voice in the Ketron from the Wersi. Next step is to save that "user sound" in a "user preset" (again on the Wersi side). Think of that as the same thing a Registration on a Ketron. All the various volume/expression controls work along with sustain pedal. Having said that I'm guessing I'm a very rare owner of both a Wersi and a Ketron and attempting to use the Wersi as a MIDI controller (once in a while!). Most of the time we use a Komplete Kontrol S61 MKII which doesn't make all the great of a controller for the Ketron, but it does make a killer controller if you own Native Instruments VST's or others that conform to the NKS standard.

Chas thanx or your thoughts appreciate it! That said in any case gigging or in studio why do so many deter from SHARING their work but choose to only keep it to themselves?....it seems confusing to me ....I use to be a gear junkie but weened myself clean for years now and playing with minimalist gear lets my creative juices flow so much better if you catch my drift?.....but sharing with each others music helps each other learn always from the experience!

Ummmm ... there's a FLOOR?????

Why would a kid that allready has 2 toys ever want a 3rd one?

On a serious note..

You are missing most of the point..
It works very much like a psr/genos/tyros... and registration memmory..
The fun is in the preperation, and building a performance..

And the fun is in finding a way to use all those tools in a live performance..
In a way that its still possible to controll things with 2 hands..

We play at home, we have fun, what more is there to music then having fun and enjoying yourself? Oh yes, there is playing for others, but thats often not the goal of homeplayers..

I sort of understand where you're coming from but for me not being a gear hoarder and home player only seems very boringly lonely not being able to share it with the masses or even with friends and other musicians in whatever way it needs to be. I want to play for others this way criticism from, audiences or people, etc, makes you a better player the other way you sit in a room with a big ego amongst all that gear thinking you are the best player in the world... but I guess that's okay too whatever makes you happy..... everybody does at their own way good luck.

To me making music is a stress releive vessel..
After a hard day of stress at work, making music with my headset on makes me relax..
Music is my medicine, and it works great for me, even with a headset on..

It has nothing to do with ego
I do realise i am a medicore musician at best
And altough a seccondary goal is improving my skills
My first and foremost goal is having fun..

Having to play for others, would add stress, instead of relieving stress
Its the exact opposite of what i want to archieve with my hobby..

Donny, ... Let's be honest here ... if we 'performers' didn't have the egos we have, we wouldn't be ' on stage' ...

Bachus your last two post are right on the money..

All my life I knew playing music relaxes and puts in respective, the real world , day to day work related issues.. especially self employed folks , such as I have always been

Tony, you are right, most performers on stage are primarily wanting to boost their egos . Or just in it for the money..

I was always very much different.. I have no ego problems.

Never was in it for the money

I either enjoyed what I was doing, or passed on it

I worked with some of the prettiest talented young ladies, and always enjoyed friendships with all the folks I worked with..


If it becomes no longer fun, I am done with it..


As Bachus mentioned I enjoy set ups that challenge the unusual way of doing things..
Keeping gear that you like is not hoarding

And remember you never lose a dime on gear until you "dump" it

I agree Tony,... If YOU don't know your Good
the audiences will see that right away!!.....You are the Quarterback of the team on stage and always call all the shots!

I don't think anyone needs to justify (to other people) why they do what they do, as long as it doesn't hurt anybody. I mean, who's business is it how much gear I buy or what gear I buy or how I choose to use it. Because I have a lot of musical gear does not obligate me to share my music with strangers (or anybody); that is strictly my choice to make. I can totally understand Bachus' point of view and it's as valid for him as yours is for you ('you' being whoever this applies to). I also agree with Tony; those of us who have experienced the pleasure of receiving the admiration, respect, and appreciation of others for our music have to 'fess up.....we like it .

The point is, whatever our reason(s) for playing music, buying gear, or SHARING our music, is strictly a PERSONAL matter and we shouldn't be made to feel guilty or pressured into complying with what someone else thinks we should do. JMO.

chas

Hi Bachus,
Wow, that’s me too. You’ve said it so much better than I ever could. My hobby has gotten me thru some awful times.
14 years ago when my husband was stuck in hospital for 8 months, I think I would have gone nuts, if it hadn’t been for a couple of synthzone members. They got me interested in softsynths and software arrangers. It was something that kept my mind active and focused on something enjoyable, while sitting round hospital waiting rooms for hours a day. I was able to take my laptop and divide my time between trying to keep our building company up and running and learning about softsynths and software arrangers.

Playing publicly does involve stress. Bookings, travel, arrivals and setup on time..then comes audience pleasing. Sometimes it goes great, sometimes not. If you have others playing with or for you, there's personality management. And physical stresses can be involved especially as we age. Add contractual obligations when significant life events take place and the show must go on, there's a lot of stress involved .

There a lot of reward too. Sharing with others, having others appreciate it. So many times at home I hit on something good or have an inspired song come out just right and I wish others could hear it. I have never been about showing off or seeking accolades or approval from others. I was given a video of my band playing a song that was a favorite of my dads, only to find out it was must have been the favorite of an older woman who was being pushed around the dance floor in a wheelchair. When the song finished she was crying and very grateful. I love the music way more than performing it, but if I didn't perform I would never have experienced that and would not have had the pleasure of making a "stranger" happy...

Gut gesagt

In a few years when i go into early retirement, i might give it a go...
There is enough old man bands here in the area, lookin for keyboardists...

As I get older, I do enjoy playing music just for myself. That said, there is still more fun in music for me when I share it with others.

My brother, retired high school choir teacher and pianist, has a different take. Although he has been performing with his choirs for years, he much prefers his piano time at home playing for his own enjoyment.

He and I have had several conversations about playing for one’s own enjoyment and also playing for the public.