Inquiring minds want to know...?
looking forward to your first impressions.

Thanks

would also like to hear comparisons between the Pa4x vs genos since you had both.

First things first...

Whenever i sit behind the Genos it gives me the feeling that i am sitting behind a majestic instrument, the screen is bigger then the pa4x, there are a lot less buttons.. but the interface of how to get somewhere fast is much much better on the Genos. . The programmable buttons and lower bar side of the screen make up for much of the missing buttons. Also the buildquallity of the Genos is high end. Even tough its plastic,

What makes a world of difference is the performance memmories on the Genos, still a pitty this is missing on pa4x, its so easy to set things up for songs, the new setlists in genos are equall to the songbook in ease of use, but because you can ... on the other hand, i loved how keyboard sets worked on the pa4x.. having sepperate save items for these makes ahuge difference, its easy to find your favorite sounds..Also i noticed that where the ots settings on pa4x are allways meant to be layered, quite a lot of settings on yamaha genos work better as single sounds.

And while i said good bye to the tyros5 more then 2 years ago, the most important feeling i got was the feeling of comming home. Genos so far feels like a warm bath.

Where it comes to sounds quallity, i personally prefer for most sounds on the Genos.. exceptions are the grand piano’s, the b3 and the synth sounds..Genos only has the typical Yamaha piano samples, these are great for cutting trough a mix, but for solo playing a darker mellower Western sample like bösendorfer or Steinway would have been very welcome..

Where it comes to styles, both instruments have top class styles.. however, the Genos styles are much more aimed at specific titles, where i found Korgs styles much kore generic and broader usefull then Yamahas.. where Yamaha scores big time is the availabillity of user created styles, and the ease of use to play these directly from a USB stick..

also the Yamaha community on psr tutorial is much more active then the korgforums.. its just like synthzone a very pleasant community to be part of, now the korg community seems much more professional in nature.. on psr tutorisl people share.. on korg forums people sell

While the keybed is top on the Genos, i prefered the pa4x even more. Its a good thing the Genos now has a stick, i prefer this above wheels..


Where it comes to playing ion the Genos, the diversity of sa sounds makes you realise that each of them requires a differnt approach when playing... on the pa4x, i was able to play most presets as i did on a piano.. yamaha presets are broader with more different articulations and require a different finesse then on the pa4x..


And then there offcourse are many many more things, like the ensemble sounds, they don’t work for every song, but they are so much fun to play with.... and then the livecontrolls, they work very intuitive... where pa4x has kaoss, many of these things are accesible on Genos trough the live controlls, and knobs work so much better then the screen access on pa4x..

Another very huge feature to me on Genos is that there is 32 parts multitimbrallity... if you don’t play a song, you can use those 16 sounds for other things trough midi..


Where it comes to edditing, yamaha keeps it to the bare minimum where it comes to onboardedditing.. but everything is still there to addapt your sounds.. edditing is okay... sound creation is trough yem and even that is not as good as what pa4x offers you in onboard tools for edditing and creating your sounds..

The arpeggiator on the Genos is basic, just a few presets.. no loadable patterns.. but still ahead of the arpeggiator pa4x offers trough kaoss. Since i am spoiled by the modx and karma on the kronos, i haven’t played with it much..


So does the Genos offer all and everything? No, but i am configuring my ipad to overcome my long list of shortcommings...

Will i pair it with the kronos? Or another 88 key? I seriously don’t know yet, currently having so much fun with it as a standalone... but i probably will some day in the future.. there is enough room in my studio to have several setups..

Bachus thanx for the in depth first review....looking forward to more in the future when you dig into the OS deeper.many of your points are valid and Imo more personal to the player themselves and what you need as an individual vs a general players approach. Personally I am glad I have heard, listened, read enough about genos since inception to not make me go ahead as I have always done and dropped that kind of money on a new model this time around. I wish you good luck with genos,
I hope it for fills your needs in your music. It's a shame we as players of arrangers don't have that much anymore to choose from for TOTL units. It seems the more modern futuristic technology they add on takes us further away from being a player vs an DJ style operator as they try to serve both masters with these newer models.

Good thing is you got it at a lesser price not to hurt your pocket book which is a good thing down the road if you decide to make another change.

There will never be a one keyboard fits all ever so pick and choose wisely for your particular needs.
Enjoy the genos honeymoon for now.



Take care..

Thank you, Bachus, for this review, it’s always interesting to hear the first impression, especially when it’s so careful.

So do I understand it right that you’d rather prefer Korg’s piano than Genos’s? And you’d rather prefer MODX’s piano than Korg’s?

As for me I always have to add some layer to my PSR’s piano. I use Slow Strings (legacy) and turn their brightness level to zero, unless I want them to be obvious. When I played an actual acoustic piano I always wondered why I never wanted to add something there.

Well its not so much yamaha piano vs korg..
Its yamaha grand vs Steinway and fazioli..
I prefer the darker deeper sound of these above the brighter Yamaha Sound...

I still think Yamaha should also have added the bösendorfer sound, or atleast an expansion pack with this sound...

Wow, Bachus:

I would call that a comprehensive review. Thanks for all that effort and for what I consider to be "unbiased opinions" backed up with statements that let us know, "You've actually been there... and done that!"

Bravo! ----Dave

I have the Genos and I had the pax4 ' its a matter of taste but to me, Genos is a dream come true , its make me play and sound better than ever ,and I disagree with Bachus about the grand piano ' it is perfect the one that is the first when you turn on the key, its mezzo bright and even a little dark and the dynamics is very good 'I use it to play solo whenevere I need to play piano in jazz music and it shines in the mix with the style.
the only sound that I am dissapointed is the B3 and the Rotor simulation but i have the Nord electro 4 for this sound

It will be interesting to know the outcome if you ever try to choose MODX sounds from the Genos.

Bachus,

All of what you wrote I agree with especially the comparison to the Pa4x vs. the Genos pianos and B3 sounds. Right on with the keybed as well I prefer the Korg keybed. I drop off the map when you start talking about multitimbral and using the iPad to fill those needs.

Good very thorough review.

It May very well happen the Bosendorfer Imperial Grand Piano Sample will be Included in the next Genos...Maybe trickle down to the lower series at some point...It is Included in the New Yamaha P-515 Stage Piano now!...It sounds stunning... Remember this happened because of Yamaha's purchase of Bosendorifer Austria...Top 3 Grands world wide...Bosendorifer Austria ,Steinway US and Germany, and Yamaha Mass produced Different Countries...The Imperial is the only 97 and 92 Key Grand offered. Thanks Harold

For what the GENOS costs I can buy close to 3 used PA4X, Yamaha is too expensive for my budget the other thing is that the filters and the editing for the money KORG PA4X is still king for me, I don't care what the specs are on the GENOS because specwise the Lionstrac was an awsome keyboard but no good styles and support and again too expensive like the GENOS.That's my opinion but then again if you can afford a GENOS good luck enjoy it.

Strange....

As i sold my pa4x for €2300 and bought a used Genos for €2800..

And currently a brand new pa4x in Holland costs €3000, while a new Genos can be bought for about €3500..


There is so ething wrong with your math...
Sure Genos is expensive.. but then pa4x isn’t cheap either..



Both instruments, as i tried to explain, have their strengths..
And both have their weaknesses..

Very good review Bachus, thanks.

I am quoting prices in US dollars here in the US arrangers are not taken too seriously and they lose value much more then Europe.

Cost 76 key PA4X vs Genos...here in US....maybe $500 difference if you shop around.

Cost shouldn't be the deciding factor in choosing one over the other. Get the one that works for you.

I've owned the PAX and now own Genos...both are good IMHO. Genos works better for me.


Bachus,


Good comments and comparisons

Just curious how you think it might compare to a Ketron?

I've read several articles and it seem like there are things the Ketron can't do that the Genos can, but some things may be better on the Ketron.

I have an Audya 5 and may someday get something else (SD90?, Genos).
I played with a Tyros 5 and while it had a nice UI, I didn't think it sounded as good as a Ketron.
Thanks for the review!

A very basic personal opinion..

Both instruments are top line , sd90 and Genos..

Things where i like Genos better..
- voices
- dsp power
- interface
- styles selection, so many available high quallity styles
- the arpeggiator

Things Genos can do that Sd90 can’t
- organ drawbars
- ensemble voices
- sa2 voices
- play styles and midisong at the same time
- multipads
- load samples
- use user voices in styles and songs


Things Ketron does better.
- onboard style quallity(better arrangements)
- style engine has more options

Things Ketron sd90 does Genos can’t
-launchpad
-available in module and 61 keys
- play multi travk audio
- play 2 midi files at the same time (mixing)

I probably forgot some things, but basically both have pretty much everything basic covered.. Genos has better overall sound quallity, but SD90 has a nose in front in the style selection

Also the Ketron SD90 sounds so much more "Live" then genos IMO.
I guess I have to throw in "Personal Preference"?

The styles do, because of how they are arranged..
But where it comes to right hand voices, i personally think yamaha is in a league of its own for many of them.. whilethe ketron voices have a great characteristic... they are much much more straightforward then the yamaha voices..

Trough the depth of many of the sounds they all require effort and a different playstyle.. but as you learn how all the articulations work in your advantage and how to trigger them.. its just so much more realistic then korg or ketron..

Also need to say,that sometimes i am struggling to get it right, like with some of the acoustic sa guitar voices.. it takes effort to find a way to play them softly yet fast... sometimes you wish, you could kill the intrigueing articulations and just play them straightforward..

Ketron sounds are simpler, and they might have more pressence, but certainly are not as realistic as yamies..

I forgot to mention Yammies sound much more compressed vs others.

I think I know what you're saying. I have a Korg Kronos which sounds much better than the Audya for voice sounds (there is a noticeable difference).

The Kronos is similar to the Yamaha Montage, and they may have used some of the same technology in the Genos.

For arranger/live band sounds the Ketron is hard to beat. Just wish they would improve in some of the other areas.

Most of Genos technollogy is equall as the Montage (and the kronos)
But lots of highlights are only available on the Genos..
Things like 32 parts multitimbrallity
Sa2 voices, the drawbar organ world engine, ensemble voices..
Those highlights are only available in Genos and no other hardware instrument..

Yamaha has several top level keyproducts... CP88, Clavinova, Genos, Montage, Avantgrand, ELectone .... all based on the same hardware and technollogy, yet Yamaha spreads its highlights and features thin over these products ..

Diving deeper into the Genos this weekend..
For every answer i get, 2 new questions arise..

Seems the Genos OS suffers from 30 year of backward compatibillity just as much as the tyros5
At first i was hoping the new Genos interface would have been reason for a lot of rewriting..
Seems however, the Genos is just another shell over the Tyros5..

Now don’t get me wrong, i love every minute with the Genos..
But to get things done quickly, one still requires a lot of knowledge about why certain things are as they are...
Which can be confusing to someone not having 20 years of yamaha arranger experience while deep diving..

As said, i am getting there, but just have a look over at psr tutorial and you will see my questions floating up everywhere..

For now my back ishurting from hanging over the Genos for 5 hours in a stretch..
Strangely the laying position of the screen automatically makes my head move forward when using it..
I need to not do that, its killing my back..

In your case, I wonder if the old saying " No pain no gain" applies.

[quote=Bachus]
Seems the Genos OS suffers from 30 year of backward compatibility just as much as the tyros5
the Genos is just "another shell" over the Tyros5..

This is the main reason I never indulged in Genos

the laying position of the screen automatically makes my head move forward when using it..

another reason of bewilderment to many players from T5 why Yamaha didn't design a genos TILT UP Display?

I hope it all works out for you.....
best scenario you keep it....
worst scenario you sell it quick & say I tried one..

good luck

Bachus ... To help with the similar problem with my Pa900, I took a 1" x 3" board, covered it with speaker carpeting, and used velcro to attach it to the bottom of the KB ... alleviates some of the bending over ...

Some people have used something like this under the KB ...
https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/H-3...mp;gclsrc=aw.ds

good luck

???

I sure never noticed that compared to the PA4X I had. My Genos definitely is more open and full.

Regarding Genos 9 in screen....nicest screen interface I've had on a keyboard.

Maybe an advantage to a tilt up? But I can't say I've missed a tilt up screen.

I am very happy with the Genos..
When the Genos moves into the upper position when i add a 2nd lower keyboard it will be at a slight angle, and there will be no more backpains..

And those same problems with the interface different with things done in an awkward way from my way of thinking, hampered the pa4x to.. its just a matter of getting used to

I am really enjoying my discovery trough the keyboard, just wish i had more time..



Yammaha samples are not compressed



I agree with you..
I would say apple style interface, which is a huge compliment..
Many things are where you expect it to be..

Much much better then the pa4x, thats the reason pa4x will do an upgrade..



I am pretty sure the Genos is going to stay with me atleast as long as the pa4x, but probably longer. The YAmaha community on PSR tutorial is a wonderfull place for getting things answered. And also for sharing things. Almost as great as our community here.

And while no bad over the Korgforums community, they are just a little more professional, and a little less sharing.

Its been 3 weeks now..
And its an incredible experience..
Not only does it sound great..
The workflow is incredibly intuitive..
Everything seems just one screen away..

I keep discovering new things ..
This evening i have been converting sf2 files to Yamaha sounds with Yem..
Hoping to find a high quallity Steinway grand..

For now, i am a happy man..
I will stay away from an 88 key lower, till i know what i really want..
Just enjoying the Genos ..

Bachus, since you own both the Genos and the MODX, I'm curious to know which one sounds better; for example, acoustic instruments, strings, orchestral brass, woodwinds and choirs.

Thanks very much in advance.

I think they are basically on the same level and sound identical where it comes to general sound quallity

Where modx scores is the better piano sounds and the fact that there is a Bosendorfer piano available..
Also the Modx has much more power at the synth side of things, not only the FM part, but also its AWM part has things to offer, like 18 different filter types versus 6 on the Genos..many of the onboard tools in the Modx, like certain arp types and the motion sequencer, envelope follower, superknob structure definately make a difference for the depth of many synth sounds.. also where it comes to powerfull background layered strings, the broad layering capacity of the Modx makes the difference.. being able to layer more then 3 voices is a huge advantage, and not just for strings...

Where it comes to acoustic sounds, its the other way around, the Genos is the one having all the tools like sa2 and ensembles to make the better sounds... also many of the sounds in Genos make more sense for the average repertoire of the arranger player. The montage/modx does not have wersi organs and such..

In the end, both sound out of this world.. and instead of feeling redundant, they start to make perfect partners in my boook, they really add to eachother.. even tough much of the soundsources is the same samples..


And a combination of both in a single instrument would be the perfect instrument for me... there is really not much left to wish for when you have both..


My biggest problem with the modx is it not having any sheetmusic stand
My biggest pun with the Genos is Yem, which should have been inside the Genos, and not an external solution.
Obviously both are not sound related..
Because their sound is a pleasure to my ears..

Bachus
What is your tyros5 drums analysis compared to Genos?

The Revo drums, are incredible, but thats only 7 sets..
Allthe other drums are mostly the same as on T5..

There also are quite some styles tough that have improved drum arrangements
And most styles seem mixed differently to make the drums stand out more

Conclusion... we need more more more revo drums..

Most likely you will see more on genos 2,.....that has always been Yamaha strategy marketing to trickle in features on each model, little by little just enough to make people buy, buy, buy, & still yearn for more on the next release over and over, SA voices was a perfect example of this in the past....

I guess marketing is what keeps selling these instruments, i guess its a neccesary evil, or they might totally disapear..

I agree more and more as technology improves it also makes people realize they don't need to buy the latest and greatest model each and every time and will pass a few offerings and keep what they have for 5-10 years before they change again as the minuscule improvements are not worth it. I would say Roland figured that out years ago also as the G70, Bk9, can attest and still sound terrific today... and as we all know any arranger today sounds great and does the job in different ways using their own features. Whatever your comfortable with playing it will serve you well. And then you always have the competition of using a computer based programs,vst, etc, to create music in many ways also...the game is changing. Is it good or bad that is a personal question on has to answer for themselves. mean while enjoy what you play, when the fun stops or it gets boring try something else there are many choices.

Wow, Bachus! That's an amazing analysis! Thanks so much for your impressions of both!

Having both in one, as you say, would be ideal for me, too!
I can certainly understand your joy, since you have both.

Enjoy your enviable position!

Actually writing this made me realise what to do..
Why look much further for an 88 key when you have the incredible sounds of the modx at hand? I made a nice deal, and will trade the modx 6 later this week for a modx8..

If you like the MODX keybed, that's a splendid idea!

Well put. I find the Genos is just like a gift that keeps on giving. There are new things I discover all the time.

I finally found my piano and synth sounds..