It's very rare that I can't handle AD problems without asking for help. This time I thought I would before, me being headstrong, I charge in like a bull in a China shop.

SITUATION: The AD never returns my phone call!

Chronologically...

I played for this AD 72 times in the last 10 years (I counted them) at her previous location. By coincidence, she moved to the present location where I already had the account about 5 years. In this present location I've done 12 events for her in three years.

I love this place...a very large, expensive, prestigious senior residence. They have a beautiful Yamaha grand piano in the auditorium where I give my performance. I love that piano!

And, I've become very attached to the residents on a personal level and they with me. They're always asking me when I'm coming back.

That's where the problem starts. I have no answer. Every time I leave a message to the AD to return my call I hear nothing back. This has been going on for 2-3 years now. Then suddenly she'll call me out of the clear blue, and ask can I play there like nothing happened. It gets better. Last week, I was playing in the other side of the building and stopped in at her office. Spoke face to face. I asked for some future dates. She replied with "call me in the morning." I replied with "you never return my call." She replied with "I'll call you back for sure." That was 4 telephone calls ago.

She's not doing her job properly. Who knows who else she's doing this to?

The only option I see is to leave her a message stating that if I don't hear back from her, then I'm going to either administration or the Director himself and explain to them what's going on here.

My dilemma is....that can go either way. I have a good reputation in the place but that might mean zilch to management. So, they will either get on her back about why she's not returning calls from established performers, or.....I'll be told to take a hike! And probably never get hired there again.

My practical side says "wait it out." My vindictive side says "tell her off" for talking to me like I'm stupid! Now, unless they look like Arnold Schwarzenegger, I don't let anyone make a monkey out of me like she is doing (this is the way you become living in the Northeast!).

Anyone have another way to approach the situation without me putting my head in a noose and ending up never playing there again?

This is not unusual. It happens all the time to me too. There are several places I work, I get a standing ovation when I just walk in the room because they really like me, but the A D doesn't. I am very freindly to her and she seems nice to me, then hires someone else. Same
price as me. She will then call me at the last minute and say help her out, the person she hired can't make it or she forgot to book someone for that date. I always say yes when possible to get in her good graces
but she responds by thanking me and not booking me in the future. This happens in a lot of my steady jobs. I think some of the A D's bosses are telling her to cut her budget and they are using free musicians. When I look on the calanders posted on there walls, there are people I never heard of and I know most of the entertainers in the area.

MEL

I gotten this too. No need to make a fuss.... move on and look for other venues. As Mel pointed out there’s so many variables. Could be, despite your warm reception by the residents, she has other entertainers that she prefers or she gets lots of volunteers to fill up her calendar.

Once I pressed the issue as to why I was getting so few calls from a senior center where I also felt well received. The AD said she preferred karaoke shows where residents see the lyrics on the screen and performers wear customs,wigs and stroll around. That’s not my thing, and that’s OK.... There’s other venues....

Too many fish in the sea, just move on to the next one....
nobody cares they just have to have some kind of entertainment for the residents and they are a dime a dozen out there. No need to let it get to you,
there are so many out there and more being built every day.
If your not willing to start chasing them down in your car at the facilities PERSONALLY to book work you will probably be sitting home more then you would like. On top of that there are so many FREE entertainment options for ADs to consider using their budget wisely and the residents enjoy them just as much. Plus the ADs get the credit from their bosses too for their thriftiness. Then there is the fact that maybe they just don't enjoy your act anymore for whatever reasons, due to song repetitiveness, bad resident critiques, and a host of other who knows what reasons true or false.

This is what I think too. They use all of their free or cheap options first and rely on the real entertainers in a pinch. I remember one place where millionaires lived that used school programs which were of course free. This discussion reminds me why I no longer work nursing homes. There's no money to be made in my area anyway.

I had an AD that never returned a phone call, which was a real PITA. I solved the problem by just stopping in with my calendar in hand, sat down with him while he was on a lunch break and booked the entire year. I had to do that with this guy every year for 20 years. He was just totally irresponsible and wasn't going to change.

If this doesn't work, screw it - as DNJ said, there are lots of venues out there, more than any, one OMB performer can handle.

Good luck,

Gary

Most of these “ up scale” places have a shoe string budget for entertainment. Around here the pay is low and they make you wait months before they send you a check and many places need frequent reminders and copies of old invoices resubmitted in order to get a payment.
Total PITA!

Mark
Your not alone. The no call back has become a very disrespectful way of business. The Ad is probably just too lazy to commit to anything until the last minute. All you can do is be polite and request that she contact you with more lead time as you need to plan your calendar in advance. Confronting her or upper management never goes well, sorry to say your replaceable in their minds. Too many free "entertainers" knocking on those doors.
For the money they pay and the work involved booking and then doing the job I have little inclination to chase gigs in these places. Good Luck.

No doubt any of us who work the 'senior circuit' have faced this one time or another ... Late last year one facility I've worked at fairly often changed ADs ... a young man who worked as an assistant AD was promoted to the top spot ... he had seen me perform many times, and was always interactive with the residents while I played ... for this year I have left 4 voice mails which have never been returned ...

Good comments...I read all of them.

I don't take it so personal now. BUT.....it's NOT about moving on. It's about her lack of professionalism and maturity and just plain not doing the job properly that she's being paid to do. I've been going through this with her for a total of 15 years now and about 60-70 gigs. I have a perfect performance track record there so I'm really ticked over her lack of respect to an established performer. The residents told me they ask for me back every time I play there. Her job is supposed to be to accommodate the residents and she's not doing that.

I think what I'm going to do is....leave a message on her machine saying something like: "Hi, I've called a few times and didn't hear back from you. You're too professional and polite not to be returning my calls. I'm guessing they're not going through to you. If you happen to get this one, let me know. Otherwise, I'm going to turn to Administration or the Director to find out why my calls are not being returned." If she still doesn't respond, I AM going to do that and hope they come down on her for playing her games with the entertainers. Of course, I'll probably lose the account since I'm small potatoes in a big pot of stew! But nothing really to lose...I'm not working there as it is.

When I was 16 years old, a very wise and mature friend happened to say to me (out of the clear blue sky)...."You know, everything, good or bad, comes to an end!" Years later, reading the Ann Landers column, she said "don't think about the loss...think instead about how lucky you were to have had the many good experiences leading up to the loss." I think about that to this day every time I experience some kind of a loss. And how everything, EVERYTHING, tangible and intangible, is on loan from God! It helps cushion the blow for a hot-head like me!

Mark

Mark,
Welcome to the business of performing at Senior Venues. I have had the very same experience with many of the places over the last 15 years. It does get tiring and I have often thought about simply not returning to them. Several times I have contacted the manager and explained the frustration of not getting return phone calls - it didn't help. Just today I got a call from a very special AD friend of mine almost in tears because she had to cancel my years bookings due to a budget cut! The business has changed over the last 5 years. Many of the places have been bought out by corps that have no idea how to provide services for the residents. I often see people move from one place to another because prices increased but services did not. One place I lost has decided to do NO entertainment for the residents - they replaced it with physical activities. Go figure. Anyway, hang in there. As many have said there are a lot of the Independent living places everywhere now.

Deane

Thanks for saying that Deane. Now I have to re-think my game plan which was to go there in person, don't even talk to her....just go direct to management with my complaint. Even though I'm fighting mad and don't back off of "stupid people" issues I probably have everything to lose and nothing to gain.


I think I'm the last one to notice this!

Thanks for posting all this info. Either I don't see what's going on out there, or.........I REFUSE to see what's going on out there. It's more ruthless than it's ever been. How can you feel like playing great music in a "ruthless" world?

The people you are playing for are NOT ruthless. They love your music.
Keep that in mind. Most of them can't wait to hear you. Don't punish the ones you are trying to help, just the ones that are so close minded that they can't see the great pleasure you give to their residents. Tread softly and just wait it out. Its the only way to get back in the door.
MEL

This is not a personal issue! This is how people are trying to run their business the best they know how, and sometimes fail. If we would start looking at the good they are doing, and not the few that should be working elsewhere, there would be more love in this thread.

John C.
PS, the only place that I know that is being run perfect is this place. (smile)

Yes, I DO understand the logistics of the whole process. THAT is what I DO keep in mind. The audience. It's the only thing that keeps me going. Especially when I walk into the room and view and feel the emptiness the people have in their lives. Forgot playing for them, they're happy just to have conversations with someone. Today I got to my gig 1/2 early and spent that time talking to the audience before I started playing. They DO really appreciate that.

What burns me out and really ticks me off is the AD's who are mindless, incompetent, unprofessional and selfish...not caring about the entertainment needs of the residents!. I've been playing nursing homes for about 35 years now. My.....how everything has really changed!

Anyhow, the news bulletin!!!

The problem has resolved itself. She telephoned me today with the same script she used last time. "Hello sweetiem, how are you today, etc" like nothing happened. Like I didn't make a dozen calls to her requesting a return call. She booked a date for next month. I played along with it, took the booking and politely got off the phone without mentioning her rudeness and lack of courtesy.

You members are correct...it IS "big business" now and I'm still living in the past...when all the AD's on the circuit heard your name bandied about, booked you in one go, you did the job and actually got paid right afterwards. Most times by cash and only sometimes by check. Them was the good old days.

So what I learned from all the remarks you folks made here is this.

1) it's "big business" and "bottom line" now....no more what's best for the people

2) "let the chips fall where they may." Accept the "erratic" behavior in the field now, and don't waste time trying to correct something that can't be corrected. Just accept "what is," and.......(as many of you have advised)....move on!

The "ringing in your ears" you experienced shortly after your post was the drone of all of us chiming in together after seeing your "never returns my phone calls" We've ALL been there. Running a business owned by a corporation who's home office is a thousand miles away is totally different than a business owned by a family, or individual who's usually if not always there. The latter, unfortunately, is almost non-existent anymore, while the corporation, regardless of whether it's privately or publicly owned, looks primarily (if not only) at the bottom line.....$$$ Guess what category is the easiest to cut?

Some long time ago, I performed for a nearby assisted living facility (privately owned) where the AD told me that she was told by the owner "Who is that guy? That's the kind of music I want for MY PEOPLE! You be sure to get him back here" Of course we soon had more dates scheduled. That joyous scenario does not occur these days.

While there are many reasons why you, or any of us, are sometimes not called back, now days it's usually "all about the money" It's so unfortunate, because we all know how passionate most of the residents are about the music we bring them. Sadly, corporation doesn't know, or doesn't care.

Good luck,
Glenn

OH Glen,
How well you hit the nail on the head! I can' t count the number of places I have played and gotten the same kind of comments from residents - "Now that's our kind of music - when you coming back? And guess what? Maybe never! Go figure.

I am seriously considering hanging it up and doing something else. It has gotten very bad in my area and frankly I am about done messing with it. You send cards, make phone calls, make personal visits - and still do not get the response you should - even if it is go to hell!


Deane

Deane no shame in passing the baton....
Enjoy life

This whole comment page has really been a lesson for me....including Deane and Glenn's input above.

I burned out of playing 4-5 years ago. My heart wasn't in it anymore and so my performances were becoming hum-drum and lacking in meaning and I let my clients slowly drift away. In just a few months I went from 50-60 accounts to the 5-6 accounts I have today.

I didn't quite remember WHY I burned out......NOW I do. It was the tip of the iceberg of everything that was discussed. I "felt" it before I "saw" it. It was the start of the transition of the "good guys" (AD's) to the "bad guys" (synthetic AD's). Suddenly the joy of entertaining was gone because by the time you got to appear in front of your audience, you were drained of the complications that were starting to appear: cancelations, moving your appearance date because of bad scheduling, sob stories from the AD's with inevitable cuts in your pay, massive amounts of paperwork both before and after the job, aides sitting there reading while they're supposed to be keeping order in the room, etc.

The bright spot on the horizon now (for me, at least) is where I live they are building high end senior retirement communities one after the other. And, now it seems to be back to......it's not what the AD's want, it's what the paying residents want for their entertainment. I'm starting to book some of these and playing their magnificent grand pianos that they all have and doing entertaining "shows" now, and.....re-gaining some professional respect again that I used to savor before all musicians became generic.

Reference to Dnj's remark above: I'll never forget what someone told me many years ago. "Would you rather be driving a taxicab on the night shift somewhere in the Bronx or doing what you're doing with music?" The answer doesn't take much figuring out.

My own thought is "The very worst of this job is still better than the best of most other jobs (with the exception of Jeff Bezos)!"

And.......I hear this comment quite frequently: "You are so lucky, getting to do what you like and getting paid for it to boot!" That helps a whole lot in dealing with this overnight change in the business.

A few years ago, I made a comment about not getting booked at a specific facility, even though I was successful in many others.

Someone (can't remember) made this comment: "if you can't handle one rejection with all your success, what does that say about you?"

I was hurt and mad at the time, but it was the best thing I could have heard.

Like Donny said, there are new places opening constantly and you have to make the calls, preferably in person. It works and you always stay busy.

BTW, another Donny special - be as good as you possibly can and you will get the work.

It says I'm a man who speaks up for himself when wronged!

This is my opinion of how to live a life of contentment.

This past year I was WRONGED when I was RIGHT about 25 times. During this same year I was addressed as sir many, many times. I was asked for my opinion by those who needed help. I am blessed by my family by the love they show me, especially this week when my daughter traveled from Jacksonville Fl. to West Palm Beach to spend 4 days with me, one-on-one.

My belief: The positives in my life are bringing joy and contentment. I walk around happy most of the time. When I spend time on the that the negatives of my life, they steel part of my happiness, Joy and contentment. --- and leave me frustrated.

This my belief, it may not apply to anyone else, John C.

Wise man John! And a blessed one.

Just remember, there's a difference between being right and being "dead right"

Glenn

Well, I thought I would add to this thread with my latest experience with booking gigs at Senior Independent Living venues. After reading this thread I decided to send a Promo card to various venues. I hand addressed the pre-printed cards and mailed 100 of them to select senior Independent Living venues. Guess what? After 3 weeks I have gotten only 1 call from those I mailed to. And folks, that is about the way it goes these days. Several years ago I got about 20 calls and gigs for every 100 mail outs.

Another issue has come up - pricing. I got on the phone and called several of the places I sent cards to and much to my surprise NONE of them came close to paying my hourly fee. Apparently there is a group of folks playing these gigs for just about HALF of what I charge!
So, after working at over 100 of these upscale Independent Living places over the last 10 years the Corporate owners of many of them have changed and they want to pay very little for entertainers regardless of the desires of the residents! Very disappointing.

Well, this all leads to me deciding to limit my bookings to those who care about the residents and want decent entertainers for them. Fortunately, this all happens at a time in my life when cutting back is probably not a bad idea. Luckily, I still have enough venues who call me that it will keep me working 2-3 times every week at the price I charge. I guess it is not all that bad because most of the places I now play have booked me thru 2020. Also, through the years none of my music income was needed for our household expenses but allowed me to buy whatever equipment I wanted and treat my wife to many dinners out and several nice trips.

Seems a shame to know that the places elderly folks decide to call home care about nothing but
the money they collect from those elderly folks. Several of my very good Activity Director friends have walked away from these jobs due to severe budget cuts for activities. To put this in perspective - most of the places I play charge anywhere from $5000.00 to $10,000 a month fees and are very upscale and still they are spending very little on the residents.

Well, just thought I would add this to this thread.

Deane

Deane sorry to hear that, but it is only gonna get much worse until it's a totally free entertainment schedule for facilities ....
everyone wants to get in the act and their budget trumps all.
If they can save $$$ they will go for it regardless of talent, upscale, low scale etc, it's a sad state of affairs.....

Donny,
In the 60's and 70's I was associated with many of the well known big bands and was a studio musician until computers started taking over. I also played with dozens of the areas better bands and small groups. All these were union gigs. This scenario of lower pricing reminds me a lot of the "scabs" we felt with in those days because that is exactly what is happening. After spending over a decade of building up prices many of those of us who did this are being undercut by those willing to play for next to nothing.

Deane

Deane, first and foremost, did you address those cards to the AD or just send them to the facility? My experience proved to be much better when those fliers and ad packages were sent directly to the AD.

Next, did you follow up with a phone call or personal visit to the AD within 7 days of mailing the cards? This is key to booking those places, regardless of price.

Now, I know that performance rates are lower in Texas, but top notch entertainers that both play and sing often command much higher rates, at least that has been my experience regardless of the state I performed in. Most of the non-singing performers up here in Maryland are paid about $50 an hour, while singing arranger keyboard entertainers average $100 to $125 an hour at the same facilities. Top notch players who are also great vocalist command $125 to $150 an hour, depending upon the facility. Two years ago, when I retired, my standard rate was $125 an hour, and a half dozen facilities paid me $150 because my commute distance was greater than 30 miles each way.

If you want to make a living in this business, performing on the senior circuit, you need a full package. You need great playing skills, high quality vocals, the best equipment, and the ability to market your product using all the tools at your disposal. You need to be able to read an audience, assess their musical desires, and provide it with a great deal of emotion and feeling in both your playing and vocals. Anything short of the above spells disaster, at least from a business standpoint.

Good luck,

Gary

[quote=travlin'easy]Deane, first and foremost, did you address those cards to the AD or just send them to the facility? My experience proved to be much better when those fliers and ad packages were sent directly to the AD.

Next, did you follow up with a phone call or personal visit to the AD within 7 days of mailing the cards? This is key to booking those places, regardless of price.

Now, I know that performance rates are lower in Texas, but top notch entertainers that both play and sing often command much higher rates, at least that has been my experience regardless of the state I performed in. Most of the non-singing performers up here in Maryland are paid about $50 an hour, while singing arranger keyboard entertainers average $100 to $125 an hour at the same facilities. Top notch players who are also great vocalist command $125 to $150 an hour, depending upon the facility. Two years ago, when I retired, my standard rate was $125 an hour, and a half dozen facilities paid me $150 because my commute distance was greater than 30 miles each way.

"If you want to make a living in this business, performing on the senior circuit, you need a FULL Package. You need great playing skills, high quality vocals, the best equipment, and the ability to market your product using all the tools at your disposal. You need to be able to read an audience, assess their musical desires, and provide it with a great deal of emotion and feeling in both your playing and vocals. Anything short of the above spells disaster, at least from a business standpoint."


Let me add to be 3x better then ALL THE REST !! show them you are worth the MONEY$$$
great post Gary

This MY VIEW.
Anything you wish to change or improve must be done by changing what you are doing. Its rare that anyone succeeds in changing another whatever. When you enter into your hurts and mistreatments the problem does not improve, it gets darker.

Please take what am saying as MY WAY of helping, John C.

Gary,
yes, I addressed those card to the ADs and yes, I did followup calls. The point I was trying to make here is there are many of these places that have changed ownership and the new owners don't give a damn about the residents - only the bottom line. Along with this there are folks who are willing to play for $40.00 or $50.00 an hour! I was shocked when I was offered gigs on my call backs at prices well under my normal fee. Sorry, not me!

Gary, I have never made a living playing these gigs but I do have a limit on what I will play for..

Bruno,
This is not about me but about what has happened to the market in my area the last 18 months
If I never play another gig I would certainly miss it but it would not be the end of the world. What disturbs me is the fact these places are charging enormous amounts to live there and the upper level management could care less about the residents.

In the past 10 years I have had nearly 150 of these venues as clients and have had great relationships with all of them. Slowly a lot of them would call me and let me know they could not meet my price anymore-even though they were at 90+ percent full. The story was always the same - it had NOTHING to do with me or how I play or what I play - simply a matter of deeply reduced budgets for the ADs.

Deane

It wouldn't matter if you were Frank Sinatra risen from the grave, they won't pay you enough here. And too many well-meaning people are doing it for free, "for the old folks".
A lot of them are very good, just thinking they are doing the right thing.

Eventually FREE will be the new norm for gigs as it slowly dwindles down. Business can't resist FREE anything in this economy.
Luckily for retired players the money is secondary and just playing out anywhere becomes just a personal pleasure of sorts.
All good things come to an end. It's a doggy dog world.

I must say this thread is very discouraging. I have been working on getting back into gigging and was thinking the senior citizen homes would be the way to go for someone 75 years old. I played out full time back in the 70's before going back into the Army where I spent the next 11 years. Retired in 92 and was to fat and to old to make it as a rock musician, so played some in country bands at the service clubs in the area. About a year ago I picked up on this whole senior citizen circuit thing and started working on reassembling equipment and building a book of tunes. Got delayed a bit with a couple of trips to the hospital for some broken ribs and a serious bought with the flu but have gotten back at it again. Then I read your comments here and I wonder am I beating a dead horse by following this path.

I know I can go back to working the service and animal clubs but typical pay in this area is $50.00 for a 3 hour gig. Fact is, this is what I was making 40 years ago! With the tax situation one has to pay out 25% in federal, 15% in FICA, & 10% state. That's 50%! The $50 turns into $25 or $8.33 @hour and that's not counting the time and cost to get there, set up & tear down.

So the question is, what to do? How does one make any kind of a living in this marketplace today? What other areas should I be looking at for a income stream from my music? Starting all over isn't going to be easy, I know but I'm still a dreamer so I really want to persue this. Suggestions and comments are most appreciated.

Deane, I do understand. There is a long list of things that are changing, and not for the better. I’m doing my best to stay positive, that’s why I post good deeds, or nice happenings. I got lost in trying to get my Kn7000 to work, I had plans and dreams. When I realized that I was losing my positive a gave it to a repair man and turned off the subject.

Deane, this my way, time is short and I turn from the negatives of this world, they rob me of my joy and contentment.

My best to you, John C.

Each part of the country is different. Nursing homes may be better in some areas. I always found it better to go to small towns and avoid the big ones.

ekurburski,

As Don alluded, it really is dependent on the market in your area which you would have to investigate. In my area, I finally gave up because it is a very small market here and really not worth it when you consider all the other hassles such as working with ADs who look like they are 12 years old and change every other time you play a place. I have a friend who is still doing it and he reports a similar experience to Deane, that is the nursing homes are cutting back more all the time. But if you really want to pursue it and there are enough venues in your area it might work out.

Please don't let my experience discourage you. I would say though, that anyone doing it at this point has to "have a calling" and do it mostly for the love of doing it rather than the profit.

Well Don, as you are well aware, I am in a small town area. When I was traveling doing gun shows I used to tell folks I was 2 hours from the closest interstate. Remember when the phrase "the interstate internet" was used to describe high speed internet? I used to say we weren't on the interstate internet but on the gravel road. So maybe there's some hope for me in this area.

You got it!

Earl, the only way to make a living in this business is to treat it as a business. You must first and foremost keep meticulous records of your expenditures. There are more than 1,200 legal deductions that are available to a self employed musician/singer/entertainer. Things you don't even think about are often fully deductible.

A dear, departed friend of mine once told me that if you are out on a job and have to take a crap in a pay toilet, write it down. That $.50 cents you paid adds up at the end of the year. Of course, this means you will be filling out a schedule "C" on your income tax return, which requires lots of time and effort, but by the end of the year, you will get to keep most of your earnings.

The downside of this is you must keep all those receipts for 7 years, which is a safeguard in the event you get audited. Consequently, you will have boxes of receipts stored in the attic that you forget about after a few years and the mice tend to find those box contents make great nesting material.

As for the age thing, don't worry about it! I was playing and singing to the spring breakers down in Marathon Key, Florida just two years ago, when I was 76 years old. The ladies were all built like Barbie Dolls and ironically, the most requested songs were anything Sinatra, Jimmy Buffett, Zach Brown, and ZZ Top, stuff we have been playing and singing for years. The only reason I retired was health issues I could no longer ignore or cope with.

Good luck,

Gary

Hope this helps,

Thank you for your comments Gary. I have been thinking on this subject for some time and realize I may need to increase my scope a tad bit. I have a couple of tourist towns not to far away. Eureka Springs, AR, Branson, Mo and Lake of the Ozarks, Mo. I think I may need to canvass those areas as well as the senior circuit.

I'm thinking Branson may be a tough market, with all the great musicians that hang around there. I love Eureka Springs; that would be great to play there, just to look at the scenery.
My did was from Bentonville, and my brother-in-law lives in Bella Vista. It's a beautiful part of the world for certain.

Because I had responsibilities, home and children, I never relied on music for my living. It was musician and guitar teacher, or musician and piano tuner. I am not talking about dollars here, I am talking about having the freedom to pick and choose without worrying what I was being payed. In New York and Long Island musicians who used music to make money struggled. Those who did very well were better business men than musicians. Many them became booking agents.

This is not to discourage the N.H. player, but to bring reality to what the problems are. If you follow Gary’s system of getting jobs you will improve. BUT, because you are not Gary you will have much less success. Just look at what he has done in the Yamaha forums. And how many of us here are respected as much as Gary. He is a man that does not come around very often.

Stop blaming the N.H.s for what they are doing. And the musicians who play for the love of money. It will lead you to frustration.

I hope this helps:
1-How good of a musician are you?
2-How many dollars do you need to live on?
3-What are the musicians being paid in your area?
4-Do you enjoy poverty????
5-The answers that Don gives are mostly positive. There are more like him here.

I am trying to help guys. Your answer lies somewhere in the middle of who you are. John Maxwell, is a well-known in teaching in leadership in business worls, said, “If you feel that you are a good leader, look behind you. If no one is following you, you better think again”.

I’m doing my best here, John C.

Mark, my advice is to RUN AWAY from Nursing Home jobs; particularly at for profit nursing homes.

These places are hell holes. Over 65 % have ratings problems identified in the Federal Quarterly review.

I am in a group which lobbies and advocates for nursing home reform, because of the terrible things I saw when taking care of friends and relatives in Nursing Homes.

Music does help and is appreciated but my time is better spent contacting state legislators, writing op ed pieces, appearing on focused educational talk shows, etc.


This is a very important part of my daily life.


R.

Russ, I can agree with you when we talk about the people running the nursing homes. What keeps coming into my mind is the people who are hurting in those nursing homes. It is very much like the old saying, “Don’t throw out the baby with the bath water”.

Throw out the nursing home out then what happens to those in the nursing homes?
John C.

Unfortunately, when it comes to caring for the elderly, this is not Europe, and younger folks here do not have the European mentality. Now, I have not visited western Europe for more than 50 years, but I can clearly recall when I was in Italy, elderly family members often moved in with one of the oldest children when they became ill and unable to care for themselves. More often than not, mom and dad moved into a spare bedroom, someone was there to look after them 24 hours a day and take them to doctors visits when necessary.

In the US, where pretty much everything became disposable during the mid 1970s, and mom and dad were added to the list. The kids had no time to take care of their ailing parents, and if mom and dad had stashed away enough retire money, the kids would dump them into either a retirement community of assisted living facility. When the money ran out, medicaid would kick in and the facilities would still get paid, though not quite as much.

Many of these places are staffed by low IQ individuals that are paid about $12 to $15 an hour. Some cannot speak English, most do not want to deal with sanitation issues, and in many places, there is no professional medical staff on site more than once or twice a week.

Fortunately, much of that has changed in my part of the world. The staff mainly consists of caring individuals who bend over backwards to take care of the patients to the best of their ability and often go the extra mile to make life some enjoyable for residents who rarely have visitations from family members.

I made a damned good living as an entertainer working the senior circuit, enough to take care of my family and keep a roof over our heads. I worked very hard to achieve the goals I set forth during each performance, and I knew many of the residents on a first name basis. When many of them passed away, I attended their funeral.

Now, I have seen some of the Hell Holes that Russ often talks about, but they should not be shut down. Instead, the upper echelon staff should be criminally prosecuted and a better class of caring individuals should be replacing them.

Good luck,

Gary

WOW. It was exactly BECAUSE I had responsibilities, home, and children that I chose to make music my living. With so many things demanding my time, I needed (and still do) to be sure my heart and soul were stimulated enough to give my best "me" to my family, friends, and work. Music allows me to feed my soul, AND my body ... with a little extra for my gear fetishes. Drinking and smoking were two things I never got into, so there's a large chunk of change that was always available to me that many do not take advantage of. Making a living in entertainment is no harder than other professions ... if you learn your craft. I never wanted to "fall back" into a career. I chose to charge into one ... head (and HEART) first.

'sall guud

Because I was born right after the depression era, 1931, my view on security and dollars are different.

Because I was born right after the depression era, my financial picture today is more than adequate.

I guess this fact got into my post.
John C.

First I have to totally disagree with the statement "Making a living in entertainment is no harder than other professions ... if you learn your craft" Entertainment is one of the hardest and least secure forms of making a living . There are so many variables in the business from the people who hire you to the crowds you play for. I knew so many musicians that were going "full time" back in the day and making just decent money. I can only think of one who's still going and only because his wife has the solid job with benefits and a good salary. My own private teacher years ago choose to work for the PRR instead of doing music full time and he came from a time when musicians were more respected and opportunities much more prevalent. Recently saw an interview with Michael Buble and he said something really true. It's 20% talent and 80% luck. Every person on the "Voice" can sing well so why did I make it ?

Back to topic. Simple. Just canvas your area and see what's available, be prepared with material and equipment to cover all situations, and follow some solid business practices as Gary has shared. Definatly no guarantees but give it your best. Good luck.

I know I have made many times the amount I could have earned in the music business. I felt it was too risky, even though I would have much rather played music than sell insurance for forty years. I think it depends on your degree of talent, ability to entertain, locale, and the nut you are dealing with at the time. Dave is above average, for sure, and more power to him. I didn't have as much fun, but have been financially rewarded for my sacrifice. Now I can have my cake and eat it.

Bernie
Just what I was saying. Talent alone is no guarantee because you have to deal with "nuts" constantly. People who know nothing about your business can control your business. I too took the conservative route with some telling me not to do it. I now can have lots of cake LOL !

What I did is incorporate the music interest into the rest of the organizational communication work I do. Now, with all former 100% print users using more and more broadcast quality YouTube work, I have an advantage of being able to supply original scores.

In my 70's, I'm making more playing music than I ever have. It has just evolved and is an enhancement to the film production work.

Of course, it's a compromise. Playing out, I'm taking a second seat to a ham sandwich. If I played the fusion jazz I'm hooked on exclusively, I'd have starved to death years ago.

Look at me! I have less to bitch at than most.


Russ

There's a reason they call our industry show "Business" and not show "ART". (paraphrasing Miss Piggy)

It's always been a business to me, no booze, no long breaks, top gear, always stayed current, and relevant to my demographic ... I play for the house. I've seen so many talented musicians loose their foothold because of "artistic" choices, but the ones who kept paying the bills knew that it was so much more than a "gig"
(that's why I rarely use the word) This is my calling. My profession, and my vocation.
I never wanted big lights, boats, fancy cars, or summer homes. I just wanted to use my skills to make music that makes people happy. (me included)
I truly believe that you can shape your own destiny ... if you're willing to work for it.

The "nuts" and "crazies" that we encounter are part of the cost of doing business. We've all got things about our jobs that we don't love, but in my case ... the positives far outweigh the negatives. I change with the times, I adapt, and I push on. In 2 more years, I'll take my social security, and that'll ease up some of the need to chase that almighty dollar. I never intend to retire, but I wouldn't mind slowing down just a bit an about 10 years. I'm not a snow-bird candidate (I'd miss fall and winter too much,) so I will stay put, and keep the tunes coming till I can do it no longer. Then, I'll make another adjustment for whatever the circumstances suggest. It's always been that way as an independent contractor. Working for yourself has it's privileges ... as long as you and the boss agree.

When I taught school, I was very careful to encourage my students to follow their passion. I nurtured them, but I challenged them, too.If I thought they had a real shot at the biz, I told them so. I've offered real world advice based on the talent, and drive I saw in each of them. My teachers did the same for me in high school, so I think it's my duty to pass it on.
I get very defensive when people dismiss my chosen business as less than adequate, or sufficient. There's nothing else I'd rather do, and I'm pretty sure many, many people in the "real world" work force cannot say the same. Most nights, I can't wait to get to work, and that feeling has been strong in my heart since my first "gig" (yes, back then it was) in 1969. Fifty years on the job, and still loving it ... sounds like a career to me.
If I ever put the money ahead of the job ... someone please SAVE ME!

Dave, I’d like to agree with you, but then we would both be wrong.
ha ha ha I could not resist.

Dave, you don’t need to be saved, you are 100% right in your opinion, in what has happened to you. So is are the others that post here. --- They are opinions from their experience.

I do have a problem with the word career. If it is a career, it is the only career that you get fired from at the end of the job/gig.
Keep in mind that I played Wedding and parties- - - one-nighters
.
Just saying, John C.

John
I was just going to say the same thing.
MEL

A lot of people work really hard at jobs they don't particularly like, so that when they can get old they can retire and go fishing or play golf or travel, or lie around the pool.
I started doing all that 45 years ago because I played music at night and had all day free.
When the music gets to where I don't want to do it, I'll quit. Or when they tell me to quit, that would do it too.
I was fortunate enough to make enough to support myself and my family for a long time, but often things were quite bleak. Something always turned up and I took the occasional "day" job when absolutely necessary. My wife does have a very good job which takes care of our insurance, so that has been a big help. These days, she makes a lot more than I do as well, but then she is a young thing (59) and I've been on SS for fourteen years!
When I had a real job, I totally hated having to get up and be somewhere at 8 in the morning, even though I had a fine and interesting occupation. Along the way I owned a few businesses, including a golf club company, driving range and night club. None of them seemed like work at all!
If I had it all to do over, I'd probably make a few changes. Such as not wasting those first 10 years working!!

My problem is.... I still don't know what I want to do when I grow up..


I have always worked for myself, with a few temp day jobs over the years (early years)..

I would not change a thing if I had to do it over again..

Maybe stay away from a few mistakes I have made

The secret to any success … is to be content with what you are doing.

Again ... perception. No one can "fire" me, but me. The rooms I work, and the people writing checks are my clients, not my boss. Many of my colleagues fail to remember this.

Just to be clear --- we're good, John. Just good old conversations.

I agree, Dave. They are MY clients - not my employer. I am Self Employed, so the only person that can fire me is me. I've been self employed since 1975 and enjoyed every minute of it. Music was my best business venture, ever!

Now, you mentioned that one of the vices you never were interested in was boats, which is a good thing. The word boat is an acronym for Break Out Another Thousand. They are expensive to own and maintain, but damned, they sure provided me, my family and friends with lots of fun over the past 55 years. Mine is up for sale, but if and when it sells, it will be one of the saddest days in my life. If it does not sell, my son will inherit it, then donate it to charity if he cannot sell it. Not a bit deal - I'll be dead at that point.

Dave, and all others on the zone, you are more than welcome to come down to Maryland and the Chesapeake's upper reaches and go sailing with me at any time the weather is fit. No charge, open bar, and the steaks and burgers are on me as well. Yes, I have a gas grill on the boat - Hell, it's a yacht!

Gary

Semantics ... Call it what you want, perceive it how you want, but the person writing the check IS your boss ...
If you are working a steady 'gig' or 'job' at a club or NH or whatever and the owner/manager/activity director says "don't come in next week, I've hired someone else", or "I've decided not to use live music", who fired you? did you fire yourself?!?
Sure, you may quit or decide not to continue to play a certain venue, but is that "firing yourself" ?

We may be 'self employed', but we are employed only at the wish of another ...

Tony, I have you high on my list, after reading your post and calling what is, is, I’m putting you four notches higher.

I sat with a group of men talking about how they took time to select the right wife. It made them feel good, they were in charge. Then Mr. Reality said, Guys, you may feel god about being in a position to select and choose the right girl, but until SHE said yes, you didn’t have anything. We make things look like what we want them to look like to feel good about ourselves.

Just saying, John C.
PS, and as far as you go Dave, you have always been high on my list. I have read you every post. Nice!

Another way to look at that is, a guy chases a girl til SHE catches Him!


Allan

Semantics ... Call it what you want, perceive it how you want, but the person writing the check IS your boss ...
If you are working a steady 'gig' or 'job' at a club or NH or whatever and the owner/manager/activity director says "don't come in next week, I've hired someone else", or "I've decided not to use live music", who fired you? did you fire yourself?!?
Sure, you may quit or decide not to continue to play a certain venue, but is that "firing yourself" ?

We may be 'self employed', but we are employed only at the wish of another ...

[/quote]

Tony LOL !!! I wrote almost the same thning last night and then deleted it afraid that some would misinterpret it. We musicians may think we are the boss but are effected by so others in so many ways. set up over there, turn down, play this, etc. etc.
Good friends of mine just scored a regulare two night gig in a new restaurant on Hilton Head. The owner put in her own sound system. They had to show up ond day at 11AM and she had some guy set the digital mixer for the system the way the owner wanted it. Then its locked !!! They come in, select the setup listed under their name and hit enter, thats it !!! No adjustments for crowd size or noise level etc. no control over their final sound into the room. They are pros and know what they are doing with their sound but are they their own bosses at this place.
Thanks a lot of parience and drive to be a musician.

We are independent contractors... Smart musicians enter into a written contract, but verbal contracts are recognized by the law too.

You are obligated by your agreement... both parties..

SO not true. The relationship between two contracted parties is a delicate balance of respect, and service. Life, itself needs balance, and business is no different.
I provide a service, and clients pay for it. If they choose not to pay, then the balance is upset. The respect is lost, and something must be addressed. In all my years of of employment, I can count on one hand the times that I was on the loosing end of a bargain. There is no way to guarantee any job, no matter how sanctioned , or seemingly secure. Tenure, seniority, partnerships ... all can be dissolved. Huge businesses go bankrupt. CEOs get canned. As a sole proprietor, my job is more secure than any other ... because I have the best HR rep in the biz, and he's always got my back.

The senior home market has been a good thing, but it's a dying breed, as witnessed here by many excellent posts. No sense whipping a dead horse. What does make sense, to me at least, is... find and go to plan B. I'm starting a new thread titled "Booking Private Senior Events"

Dave, Everything you said above is absolutely true, and i always respect your opinions
However, it does not dismiss my point that when someone tells me - for WHATEVER reason - that I am not working at that venue anymore, I have been FIRED. I did not fire myself, someone else fired me, and at that point, that person is the "boss" because I do not control that situation ... And it may not have anything to do with a lack of respect between the parties or anything else ...
Saying that no one can fire me but myself just isn't true IMHO (and perhaps the opinion of a few others on this board) ...
When I can hire MYSELF, and PAY myself, then I will truly be 'self-employed' and I will be the "boss" ... until then, we will have to agree to DISagree ...

... and we shall leave it at that, my friend. No one ever said we all have to agree all the time.