My new direction and projects lead me to start using BIAB 2019 with a
Roland A-49 controller which is pretty amazing.
It gives me Many more options plus my MIXCRAFT Pro8 DAW vs just using an arranger kb. There is a deep learning curve but so far it's been lots of fun for now.

Sounds good!! Very realistic!!

Donny ... great beginning ... no doubt you will master this as you've mastered every keyboard you ever put your hands on ...

I am starting the same thing by recording a song in BIAB using Realtracks audio, and importing to PA4X. Rikki is doing this and posted on Korg forum. I am sure there are other ways to utilize those great sounding styles.

Thanx everyone...I'm getting better with time ..

Can't wait to hear your vocal over that, Donny ...

PS ... one thing I find when making a 'backing track' is to remain aware of where the VOCAL line is going so as to not interfere with it or overpower it with the background ...

Thanx tony so much you can do with BIAB 2019 its amazing.....
in time I will record with vocals for sure....take care

Nice to see someone here getting into BIAB in a big way. /I have had it since 6.0 and like a lot of my stuff never ever really learnt it. I have always reverted to the arranger in real time. Driven by laziness. My new years resolution is to get serious about all of this and use the tools I have. I've been going to recordingrevolution.com. The guy is a strong advocate of using the equipment you have and not relying on getting new and better stuff all the time. Being poor, I'm not having much of a problem trying to follow his advice. Will be following you guys closly to see how you utilize BIAB with your keyboards in real time.

Donny, Good stuff as usual!

Randy aka Saxxman doesn’t visit here much anymore but he does some great BIAB work while playing his sax.

Thanx Steve .....yes I can see many uses and it is not that difficult to work up a really nice backing track in any key, any style and more to play a sax, etc, or sing on top of and create some amazing arrangements using the Real Tracks, Intros, Endings , fills etc in so many ways..

Way to go Donny. Nice to see you’re making good progress with BIAB.

jingleman

Thanx jingleman learning as I go..... I am getting creatively excited again! Can't wait to try my new Roland controller to add custom tracks too.
It's quite fun actually......

https://app.box.com/s/4gx2mhsp6g1tzd6pxc2ptkiz5v7coplz



I use BB2014. Here is my demo.

sounds great Fran.... Time for the 2019 update.... I have the Ultra Pack.

I have the full package ,,, over 60GB on external hard drive..

2014 does not lack anything, that I can see with 2019... Maybe added more realtracks..

When you record the finish product make sure you select real tracks, or it will default to your sound card (Most likely Microsoft GS wave table).

For me the strength of BB2014 and newer (I think my BB2012 also).. The ability to play an audio file, maybe a song you want to learn. Into BB let it analyze the chords.. Then use the chord progression and select rhythm and instruments to suit you,, Now you have the new tune and it is your own.. You can also print a fake book version from BB.

Update to 2019 is well worth it.. also BIAB has the BEST customer service I have ever experienced with ANY company!!

This discussion makes me take a step back.

Virtual arrangers and daw's replacing hardware arrangers for creating music at home has followed common studio use...will it, can it, should it totally replace an arranger for live use shortly? When some of the biggest proponents of keeping arrangers from extinction are using it, is it surprising manufacturers commitments and attention to arranger development are shrinking?

Why shell out thousands when far less will get you the same thing with software, a laptop and key controller?

Or does it?

Its been said that most of us don't even approach the full use potential of our instruments. I fear the increasing complexity may discourage some of our "graying" age group, and excludes some that aren't very tech or computer savvy from using virtual setups all together.

Do you want to do proportionately more programming than playing, or more playing than programming? Maybe that's the question to ask when deciding what will work for you...I wonder how long both options will exist.

No matter how it's done you have to have the talent to create it. Nothing lasts forever... with so many options I can see why many are gravitate towards computer based programs versus hardware..

Excellent question Sparky ... but I guess some might say "use all the tools available" ...



I can appreciate the joy of 'creating' because I feel that when I create a 'backing track' ... But if one is using software, a laptop, and a controller, what happens to the spontaneity and excitement of 'live' play? ... This is why, even though I do create some tracks, and even use a SMF for a few songs, 90+ % of my performance - especially for senior gigs - is 'style based' ... this allows me a lot of flexibility in performing medleys etc. 'on the spot' ...

PS: not judging, just commenting ...

Tony just record the medley as a backing track.... Its very easy to do..

Sparky, good subject for discussion. First of all, from a personnel standpoint I absolutely LOVE my BIAB. It is so far advanced from the modern arranger kb. Yamaha makes a big thing out of there REVO Drums and they should but BIAB has had real drums forever. No one else has come up with Real Tracks yet and they are "real". So, why don't I use it more and still use the kb? Simple. Even though BIAB can make a song file up in 5 minutes, it still takes 5 minutes and in most cases to get it right a lot longer. The kb allows instant gratification. Once I find the proper style and lead voices (I have to do the same with BIAB) I can then play the tune right now. BIAB has a feature called 'conductor' that will allow you to repeat sections of your tune in real time but it is not the easiest feature to learn how to use. The 2019 BIAB manual is 617 pages long! This program is huge and will let you do all kinds of things if you take the time to learn it (I haven't yet, but plan on spending more time with it in the furure).

The truth is although I upgrade every year I don't use any of the new features. I could very easily get by doing what I do with 2012. BUT! Every year the marketeers at PG Music add another 100 of so additional Real Tracks (This year 202). During there annual sale I get the upgrade for $99. I figure that if there is just one additional Real Track that I really want it is worth it to save having to pay a live musician $100 per hour for studio time. And I couldn't find musicians of this caliber anywhere near Mountain Home, Arkansas. It also allows me to play with these guys at 3:00 in the morning if I so desire.

As to the comment about support. I agree that PG Music provides the best service & support of any software I use. Peter Gannon, who is the main dude behind the company shows up often on the BIAB forum to answer questions and help users solve problems. The forum has a huge user base that is very well versed in the program.

As you can probably guess I am a huge fan of BIAB. It is my favorite program to show off to folks just getting interested in computer music and what can be done with this stuff.

+1
MEL

I'm thinking about starting a forum for arranger keyboards.

Of course I could do that, Donny, - and I have - but I'm talking about spontaneously going into another song based on what I feel the audience might like to hear at the time ...

Great idea, Don ... I'm in ...

I'm putting more suntan lotion on it gets hotter the more South I go....

It shouldn't have to be either, or. I am working on songs and styles to import to my PA4X. Why?, because I have a $3000 keyboard that does everything I ask of it, and, I don't want to have to use a laptop for everything. To be sure, I am just getting re-acquainted with BIAB, but I can see it is awesome, but not to the exclusion of my hardware. To each his own.

And we've ALL been there before ...

Just to get this train back on the track ...

Good discussion here. I would add that most people have more than one program for making music. You need Band in a Box, a DAW, plugins and so on. Add all of that up plus the cost of ongoing upgrades and the cost is probably about the same compared with an arranger (unless you have a Genos :)). Also, I agree with Tony Mads-nothing like having the ability to play it all live with the option to change keys, tempo and arrangements on the fly. I don't have that much skill so that is why I used tracks .

I would say there is MORE Skill in Creating/arranging the tracks vs commercial.

Hi Donny,
Congratulations , you finally bit the bullet and bought it. Thought you would enjoy it .
So much for me to relearn, plus all the new features they have added.

Another one to check out is the Real Band sequencer that you get as part of the package, unless you want to use the new biab plugin in your existing daw.

I only have my old xg works sequencer,( which I use for editing and converting my styles) and as of yesterday am going to use for creating chord sequences for my Pa4x.
so Real Band has come in handy for editing midifiles and creating audio files. One interesting feature , it has the ability to load biab style tracks, so ,if for instance you have a midifile with a really bad guitar track, you can replace it with one of biab’s real tracks. or the midi supertracks. RB loads chords if present or generates it’s own if not, so the real or super track automatically blends in with the existing midifile. Or great for replacing midi drum tracks with audio tracks.

Aught to keep you busy for ages. Haha

Ok time for another new direction.....
For now I'm done with arranger kbs, styles, biab on its way to Canada, Roland A49 controller kb gone, vst, etc,etc,...
I have stepped back recollected my gear thoughts and needs, at this time and have decided to just sit back, relax, and WAIT and see what avenues manufactures are gonna take in the near future with new KB's and if something excites me I look further into it.
I have a vast library of song backings to cover anything.
So for now I changed my SZ Logo and will just read and enjoy SZ posts.
And happily my acute URI is going away after 3 weeks feeling better every day too. OK back to my Netflix movies!!

take care

Thanks for the demo, Donny... and for starting an interesting discussion. BIAB has come a long way and will, no doubt, continue to add more useful features as time and technology make new avenues available. I don't have it but often use a demo artist for a few of my songs to be able to listen to a better vocal and hear a different backing to them... not to mention all the money I save by using that guy. To Mason's point... other than for creating new styles and melodies... it probably would not be ideal for stage performances... LOL!

Dave BIAB 2019 is a songwriters dream.

I couldn't agree with you more, Donny:

At this late stage of the game, it's getting hard to "teach old dogs new tricks," LOL... after writing and recording more than 1000 songs (many of them too crappy to mention) I'm resigned to my fate of being left to rest in the shade! It has been a fun ride.

At least I gave BIAB a shot,.....but now for the first time in a very long time I am totally void gear wise and have a clean slate to work with. With so little NEW released on the market arranger kb and alternatives, etc, wise it becomes slower and slower to make changes, tryout, play new gear etc, I'm just not excited about anything out there. I hope that changes soon, I feel NAKED not having anything to just sit down and play.

Thoughts?

I think would go crazy not having a keyboard to play. You’re too good of a keyboardist Donny to not anything to play on!

Maybe you’re burnt out on arranger keyboards? If so, why not just get a non arranger keyboard and accompany your self manually or with all those tracks that you have? Maybe a combination of both?

after all the keyboards I have had through the years of playing
I have found that just the right keyboard is the one that makes you feel good about playing. I love my pa1000 just because all I have to do or hook up is to turn it on and play. I don't care if the latest and greatest has something outstanding or some gadget
that just came out. I know what it can do and how to do it. No spending hour, days or weeks learning to operate just sit down and play and enjoy. The difference between most arrangers that are out there are so slight that almost nobody can tell the difference if they are not side by side. What you put into your playing is what you get out of it. Enjoy what you have and learn how it works and you will soon find that that is all you need.
I switched from a pa900 to pa1000 only because the tilt screen let me see better with my remaining vision. I didn't need extra nobs and drawbars or other goodies that I would really not need so I did not buy the pa4x. This is just my way of happily making a living and making myself happy doing it.

Just my opinion
MEL

A few days ago I got a new music store mag in the mail. After I looked through it, it hit me.
I DON'T NEED ANYTHING IN HERE. What a great feeling.
MEL

right on! Use what you goy and make music!

Thank you all, .....very insightful replies. this time around I am digging deep into my needs gear wise and will formulate a plan of action to suffice my musical needs at this time for sure.

Donny, I can't imagine you without a keyboard in your house ... ... It would be like a car without tires - it ain't goin' nowhere!!!
Forget about the latest and greatest, or the 'panacea' - the be all and end all' - and just get yourself a keyboard to PLAY WITH !!! ... try crazy stuff like playing rock tunes as a bossa or a bossa as a polka ... just screw around and have FUN !!! ...
Then, when the next lightening bolt strikes, go out and get what you think you need and just have fun with that ...
You may never find what KB makes you truly happy, but it could be a lot of fun searching for it ...

I can Donny with the next Yamaha PSR-S????? Keyboard coming not in the too far Future...He's just hording His Money for now!

How about a Yamaha MODX or Roland FA series for something different?

My mind is working.....?

Be careful Donny.
Let the mind work hard and think a lot can lead to headace, and that hurts a lot.
That's why I never use my brain, it's too painful ...

Nice one Donny and Fran; love the moods you create.

I think these software arrangers have their place and have great potential for many places i.e. backing tracks and mood music in between sets etc. BIAB still can't replace live playing or changes on the fly. But still are great for the creative juices, and not to mention playing / practising with as you backup band, as you " fiddle" on you keyboard, whatever type you choose.

Allan

Thanx Allan it was fun while it lasted for sure.

Honestly I no longer have BIAB, it just became to "work intensive"
for my needs and I ran out of Tylonol for the headaches,.....
plus calling Fran every two minutes for help
would cost me a hefty sum in Waffle & Ice Cream Breakfasts !