I bought the S970 in August of 2015, almost 4 years ago. Last year, Yamaha came out with an almost identical keyboard, the S975 with a bunch of new styles that everyone already had on their USB drive, no new voices, almost no new features. I would venture that not one S970 owner on the planet upgraded to the S975.

Anyone think that Yamaha is going to pull the trigger this year? Next year?

Since recent Yamaha arrangers have an option to download new voices, it’s harder to justify buying a whole new keyboard.
So I can speculate that Yamaha has to rethink the whole concept of PSR; it seems reasonable that they will rebrand it just like they did with Tyros and Motif, and we’ll see a touchscreen and less buttons on a panel. Otherwise whatever they do it will be too close to what we already have.

Only time will tell! Waiting with much interest in discovering their strategy.

Or building one. I think that's why the increase in memory from 970 to 975 was the important upgrade. I agree updating not re-manufacturing is becoming the norm..

Psr2000 to 2100 comes to mind..
it's a great way to get rid of old parts stock..

I think we should be kind to Yamaha, and korg. If it were not for their efforts, we would have a great deal more to complain about.
So, they make dollars, it’s a business.

Just saying, John C.

I agree
Eric

I agree... but ain't it fun to sit around and "bitch" about stuff? LOL!

I think we are being very kind purchasing their products all these years...

What else were you going to use?

Tony as I have said many times everything reaches a peak...
but something else will show it's face it's the way of the
tech world....

meanwhile who cares?.. you can still play great music with
most arranger kbs introduced in the last 10+ years without a problem if that's your bag. I can buy any model I want but amazingly and unintentionally I have learned a great lesson with this mid level Yamaha S670 and that is ....
It's the "player" that counts....

You're just finding this out?

Gary

I always knew that Gary....
But many think new = sound better..

I must admit that, having taken my s970 out of my closet, I have new appreciation for Yamaha. I appreciate all my Pa4X and Audya can do, but there are many times I want a different sound, and my 970 sounds very good.

It’s gotta be the player that counts I’ve been using the s970 here in Florida and have received plenty of positive responses from the audiences. I stop and think would the Genos or Pa4x get better positive responses? Maybe, maybe not.

I’ve also been using the Yamaha DGX 560 that is the lobby of the cancer treatment center here, I play mostly piano solo but in recent weeks I have started using the arranger styles in the DGX and I’m a little surprised to hear people are applauding in a facility. Keep in mind most people that come into the center are being treated for cancer, if they aren’t being treated they are there to support a loved one. In other words it’s not the happiest of places but that’s why they have musicians/pianists come in to play.

I am preparing mine for the annual Easter dinner at our cultural center, with about 175 guests. What the s970 lacks in live drums and bass, it makes up for in lead voices and godzillions of styles. I think if I don't try and bring a knife to a gunfight, I will be fine. This is a quieter affair, with all guns left at the front desk.

Bernie just EQ the high end of you drums within the styles
rhythm1/2 to give them some "sizzle" makes a world of difference.
And change some bass sounds to suit also for example: acoustic to finger etc,...have fun.... the S970 ain't no slouch.

Agreed,
Plus I turn up the drum and base volume a little,
If they are still weak they get a bass boost too.
Makes a big difference.
Eric

Yes sir never let the factory tell you how to sound!

Thanks guys. A good tip for sure.

^
Yup, this, this and this.

You can EQ as much as you want, but it does not change the depth or quality of the sound. What it is, is the same sound, but louder. I put a great amount of time trying to make Technics sound like a contempory keyboard, big bass, and big drums, it never made it. I even used a 15” sub and got nowhere.

That’s why Technics can play the 30’s 40’s 50’s big band sound so well, it was programed to have a certain sound. The sound of a bass note on a Pa4x and the same note on a Kn7000, they are very different.

Try raising the mid, and bass setting on a guy with a thin voice – what you get is a deep muffled voice.

Just saying John C.

Agreed, you can't make one brand into another. But it's about working with what you've got.

Maybe add some compression into the mix first...

But then i dont think that is what you are asking..
I agree with you if something is missing from the orriginal sampl
You can not add it... our arrangers are based on subtractive synthesis
Which means every action you do takes away something from the sound
Or in case of an EQ multiplies whats allready there..

But whats missing can never be added

I cannot decide which arranger I would rather use, the Audya or the Yamaha. The Yamaha blows my mind with the stunning guitar effects and variety of styles.

Yet everytime I use the Audya, the realism and built in auto drum fills that come with every audio drum pattern just blows my mind. (Also, Ketron and Roland do things with ordinary midi that few others can equal) But then again I sorely miss those awesome Yamaha guitars!

Wish I could have everything in just one of the two. Pity one of the brands would not focus on EVERYTHING available today.

You can get a Yamaha MODX and a Ketron SD90.. best of both worlds, as you can convert guitar tracks of yamaha arrangers to arp’s with the same guitars on the MODX

I stayed with Technics from he Kn1000 to the Kn7000. The Kn2000 was great for its time. The Kn3000 was about fair. The Kn5000 made a big jump. The Kn6000 gave me six months of problems; they gave me a new Kn6500 without charge. I feel that the Kn600 and the Kn6500 fits into the same category as the S970 and the S975, a small improvement. There are many here who would have bought a Kn8000 without thinking of how much the upgrade was.

My point; I did not question the upgrade, I just bought the new model because of their past reputation, knowing they had not failed me yet. And since I owned the S970 and the S975, I say there was enough of a difference to warrant spending the money. What else gives me the pleasure and joy than getting a new keyboard?

OT. Gary has taught me that when you stay with one make keyboard, you add more to what you already know. That means you get to explore the keyboard to a greater depth. Gary and Fran come to mind. If dollars are not an issue, buy every new model as soon as it comes out.

Just saying, John C.

Playing talent vs Operating talent are two different animals with an arranger KB.

There are all levels of playing talents. But whatever level you are in, knowing more about your keyboard will help. Two different subjects.

John C.

John I can't disagree more,... they BOTH go Together in playing
an arranger KB for sure. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to be a great arranger kb player/operator..

No, you don't have to be a rocket scientist, but it would sure make things easier if you were. I am always amazed at the number of people that never take the owners manual out of the zip-loc bag it came in with the keyboard. The very first thing they do is jump onto a forum and ask someone else to do it for them. Typical! There has been several occasions where someone would post a question and I would provide the answer and the page in the owners manual where the information could be found. Unfortunately, this was never a deterrent and those same folks would be asking more questions an hour later, often on the same subject.

Knowing the ins and outs of the keyboard's OS, obviously, make navigation faster and easier, thereby making you a better and smoother entertainer. Additionally, when someone comes up and requests a song, one that you may know but have never set up in registrations of the MFD, it only takes a matter of seconds to select a proper style and get into the song if you have already auditioned all the styles.

All of this takes time and effort on the part of the owner. John is absolutely correct when he stated that "knowing more about your keyboard will help." Those that know little about their keyboards are the guys and gals you see sitting on stage pushing a lot of buttons trying to figure out where to go next to put forth the next song. They usually have horrendous dead time between songs, flip through many pages of sheet music, or scrolling their I-Pads to find music for the next song. I saw an arranger keyboard player a couple weeks ago, very attractive, young lady, who experienced at least 2 minutes of dead time between songs and was constantly scrolling through the pages of her electronic fake books. I don't think she ever looked at the audience once during the hour she was on stage.

Technical knowledge is a key ingredient to being a highly skilled and successful arranger keyboard player, OMO.

Gary

I tried to picture how the next PSR should look like, this is my rough visualization.

My point is that Tyros and Motif got touchscreens and now it’s PSR’s turn. For designers and engineers it’s the biggest change in the line, because PSR has for ages stayed practically the same in regard of user interface. But today a screen which cannot be touched is obsolete. Will Yamaha risk it and release the next PSR with this obvious contradiction? I doubt it. And changing user interface means the whole rethinking of the product. But they have done it already with the Tyros. So now it’s about eliminating some of Genos’s features and adding speakers.

Will it keep the name “PSR”? I don’t know. I expect it may be something like PSR-X900. It should be a fresh start.

Also it makes sense that this new one will be equipped with bluetooth.

I did a version with inverted colors because I really wanted something brighter than black.

Yes, Gary, once I was to help a man with PSR-S750, his question was about saving registrations. I looked in the manual and figured that I could either quote it or send it to him as it was with a page number. So I did. And it was like he totally ignored this my effort or was insulted by it. He kept asking questions complaining that whole menu was too complicated and I realized that he was expecting me to be some kind of a tutor. Ironically, he was supposed to perform in public with a band.

Arranger keyboards are not like iPads which are mostly used only to get content, not to produce one. These keyboards may seem attractive in a store, but in fact a player should really have an aching desire to go deep into it, because unlike iPhone, only a small part of population is capable to appreciate this product.

It’s an uneasy question in fact. Because it seems reasonable that one can start playing keyboards only if he has one, and we know that a good instrument can inspire some progress. But in the same time we know that no matter how good the instrument is, if a person is not a player, eventually he’ll give up on it completely.

So, there’s no judging on people who are struggling to use their purchases, somehow they were lucky to get an instrument of somebody else’s dream and there will be some process of admitting, denial, or an miraculous inspiration.

Well Gary, I am amazed at how some things that are easy for some to understand can be so difficult for others (especially me) I struggled with the registrations and saving them. Still do to an extent. Just saying, I read fairly well. I have several degrees so most would say I'm not an idiot BUT the PSR OP is very complicated and for me very hard to completely get my head around. I had none of these problems when working with a simple spinet organ and a side piano. I love the 3000 I got from you and I learn a little more each time I set down at it. But
I'm afraid I will be asking some more stupid questions in the future. I think I might reference the manual & the tutorial site in future questions so you guys will understand that I have read the manual. BTW, sometimes it just knowing where in the manual the answer to a question might be.

After many years of Technics I decided to move to Yamaha, then to Korg. It was difficult, very difficult. THEN I LEARNED THE SECRET. Forget what and how you worked with Technics and learn what the new keyboard is trying to teach you.

Yamaha and Korg did not create keyboards that are difficult to use, it is the user that creates the problem. Sorry. IT IS NOT ABOVE YOU, just change you thinking. Marriages are very much the same. (smile)

John C.

My learning curve from technics to KORG was very steep at first ... But with help from people on this forum, especially Donny, I was able to get through it, and then I began to realize the similarities between technics and KORG ... it was mostly the terminology that was different ...

My Pleasure Tony anytime!
I had many mentors thru the years like Uncle Dave, Fran, Don Mason,
Dan O'Neil, Prince AJ, & Mr. Wizard (Gary Diamond) & a few others to get me thru it
especially changing keyboards so frequently & needing to be fully ready in a day or so afterwards.
But in the end I became very proficient in almost
ALL of these OS systems...and be lightning fast and articulate navigating the OS WHILE YOUR PLAYING ALSO!!

One of the things I discovered about arranger keyboard user manuals was they were written by engineers, for engineers. In other words, they are very poorly written when it comes to the average consumer.

Many years ago, I was a full-time, freelance, outdoor writer for many publications. My very first assignment was for a small newspaper in Shrewsbury, PA, The Free Press, owned by the parent company, The York Dispatch. The article was to be about Catching Slammer Bluefish in Chesapeake Bay's Shallows. After writing the article, I decided to enlist the aid of a good friend, Lefty Kreh. The article was just over 4,000 words. Lefty took one look at it and said "If you want sympathy, show this thing to your mother. It's way too complicated, way too long and it will not hold the reader for more than 2 minutes before they go on to read something else."

Lefty went through the pages with a red pen, striking out most of the words and said "The key to success when it comes to writing a how-to, where-to article is to use the least amount of words with the least amount of syllables to get the point across. Then, and only then, will everyone one understand you." Lefty was the king of one-liner jokes and followed this by saying "Let me give you an example. There was a copy-boy that worked for the Miami Herald when I wrote for them, his name was Moses, and he was damned good at his job, but didn't make a lot of money. Moses soon discovered that if he worked overtime, he was paid time-and-a-half. He was elated. A couple days later he found out that if he worked weekends, he would be paid double-time. This went on for about 6 months - Moses was making more money than he ever dreamed of making."

Lefty said "At the end of six months, Moses was sitting at his desk, opening letters and one was addressed to him from his wife. He suddenly jumped out of his chair, ran to his car and drove off at a high rate of speed and fuel consumption. I picked up the letter and it said 'Dear Moses, there's gonna be some serious screwin here tonight, and if you're not here, you're not gonna be part of it.' Now, that woman knew exactly how to get the point across, using the least amount of words and the least amount of syllables."

That was nearly 50 years ago, and I never forgot his words. Lefty passed away about a year ago, and I miss him dearly. He was a great friend and mentor. I went on to write for 25 major publications and made a pretty good living until print media fell away to the Internet, which paid nothing. It was at this point when I decided to go to full-time as a musical entertainer. Prior to this, I was a weekend performer.

Don't be surprised if that user manual seem complicated - it is! Fortunately, we have forums such these to go to when the answer is not clearly spelled out in the manual.

Cheers,

Gary

Yes, Gary, the manuals are difficult to understand and follow. BUT I have to tell you sometimes even forum members explanations are equally hard to follow. I really do appreciate all the help given here and at PSRTutorial but sometimes this stuff just takes this old dog a little longer to get. Soooooo..... when a dummy like me asks what seems like the same question 3 or 4 times it may be that what is easy for the writer to understand is just way over the head of the reader. Fact is, I am somewhat embarrassed by my inability to get a concept when presented. My only saving grace has been, once I get it, I usually have it and that tends to open up more areas of the OP to persue.

Hey Gary:

You have not lost your touch at telling an interesting story. After reading, I was hoping our friend "Moses" did not have to part the Red Sea as he drove home. LOL!

Earl, when it seems impossible to communicate using text, I often resort to an ancient, standby mechanism, the telephone. Under these circumstances, I usually have the person sit down at the keyboard with the phone while I sit at my keyboard, then go over the problems and the solutions step by step.

Ironically, the most difficult challenge for most arranger keyboard players is learning how to create registrations and what the registrations do. The next most difficult problem for them is learning how to use the Music Finder Directory, followed by recording midi files and finally, doing live, audio recordings.

Because arranger keyboards are extremely versatile, and can do just about anything you wish, they became very complex. Kinda like climbing into the cockpit of a 757 with no flying lessons and expecting to fly this thing to the Bahamas - it ain't gonna happen!

All the best,

Gary

Gary, flying is easy. If you want to go up just pull back on the stick; if you want to go down, KEEP pulling back on the stick . Hey, you think flying a 757 without flying lessons is tough, try flying a 737 MAX8, even WITH flying lessons. And BTW guys, they're grounded, so stop trying to book your mother-in-law on one .

chas

Yes Gary I have been remiss in not taking you up on the phone sessions. i really don't want to impose on people, especially friends. Anyway, I'm taking your advice and just setting down and going through the styles one by one to include playing with the parts and using only bass and rhythm. Starting on the first bank and learning that most of the bass part are stuck on the root, playing a rhythmic pattern. I had assumed that the parts would be more complex. Haven't got that far yet. Only on the 2nd page. Will do more later. Spending a lot of time being a caregiver for the wife. She's still in a lot of pain and unable to walk. Operation on March 4th. They're saying it may be 12 to 18 months for nerves to grow back if ever. Not a good prognosis at the least.