Like many citizens, I've wondered and tried hard to understand why Pres. Trump has such a remarkable following. (It's obvious why he probably should not)! Then a friend sent me this raccoon story. It makes no difference about your political leanings, this is just a good explanation of WHY... (or it's as good as any I can come up with).

If you really want to know how most people feel, and this applies to both democrats and republicans, read below. It says it all.

-----

You've been on vacation for two weeks, you come home, and your basement is infested with raccoons. Hundreds of rabid, messy, mean raccoons have overtaken your basement. You want them gone immediately. You call the city and 4 different exterminators, but nobody can handle the job. But there is this one guy and he guarantees to get rid of them, so you hire him. You don't care if the guy smells, you don't care if the guy swears, you don't care if he's an alcoholic, you don't care how many times he's been married, you don't care if he has a plumber's crack, you simply want those raccoons gone! You want your problem fixed! He's the guy. He's the best!

Here's why we want Trump. Yes he's a bit of a jerk; yes he's an egomaniac; but we don't care. The country is a mess because politicians suck, the Republicans and Democrats can be two-faced and gutless, and illegals are everywhere. We want it all fixed! We don't care that Trump is crude, we don't care that he insults people, we don't care that he has changed positions, we don't care that he's been married 3 times, we don't care that he fights with Megyn Kelly and Rosie O'Donnell, we don't care that he doesn't know the name of some Muslim terrorist.

This country became weak and bankrupt, our enemies were making fun of us, we are being invaded by illegals, we are becoming a nation of victims where every Tom, Ricardo, and Hasid is a special group with special rights to a point where we don't even recognize the country we were born and raised in; "AND WE JUST WANT IT FIXED". And Trump is the only guy who seems to understand what the people want.

We're sick of politicians, sick of the Democratic Party, the Republican Party, and sick of illegals. We just want this thing fixed. Trump may not be a saint, but we didn't vote for a Pope. We voted for a man who doesn't have lobbyist money holding him back, a man who doesn't have political correctness restraining him. We all know that he has been very successful, he's a good negotiator, he has built a lot of things, and he's also not a politician, not a cowardly politician. And he says he'll fix it. And we believe him because he is too much of an egotist to be proven wrong or looked at and called a liar. Also, we don't care if the guy has bad hair. We just want those raccoons gone, out of our house, NOW.

This really needs to be in THE BAR (where I can tell you what I REALLY think of your little 'soliloquy'. I guess you can always find that 35% that's willing to 'drink the kool-aid' and try to use justifications like the above as an excuse to abandon any sense of decency and morality. BTW, the 'racoon' analogy is not that subtle. White Nationalism, the dramatic rise in Hate Crimes, heightened anti-Semitism; Hey, time to 'man up' and admit what your REAL fear is, 'the browning of America'.

Like I said, I'd be happy to tell you how I REALLY feel over at THE BAR.

chas

I agree... this should be in "The Bar." But I sure don't disagree with the idea that our nation is being invaded by illegals across our southern border. I can't speak for what's going on across the northern border but Chas, my friend... if you walk across the Rio Grande from the U.S. side and "waltz into Mexico"... guess where you will quickly reside?

Remember the U.S. Marine who was going hunting down there a few years ago, got turned around and took the wrong way while doing his best to return back into the U.S. and was arrested and chained to his bunk in a Mexican Prison?

Our immigration laws need to be re-written immediately and the opposing party is doing nothing. I call this TREASON and believe they should all be put in prison (Republicans and Democrats) until they legislate a corrective set of laws. Claiming asylum because George Soros has paid a bunch of ragweed lawyers to "coach" illegal entrants is pure hogwash. That would not work if you tried to enter Mexico, Canada, Venezuela or the U.K.

Obey our laws, respect our sovereignty and enter the country the correct way. Isn't this the way things should be?

Dave, because I think you're a decent (if badly misinformed) guy, I just can't bring myself to respond to you in an honest manner. I VIVIDLY remember your comments about those 'unpatriotic NFL players' so I was already quite aware of your, shall we say, political and philosophical leanings. In any case, I'm sure there are lots of "fine people" down there in 'West Mayberry'. Have a great day.

As-salāmu ʿalaykum

chas (who realizes that America was built on the right to PEACEFUL PROTEST)

Chas:

I served my country in Naval Aviation for more than four years and I did it voluntarily. I was raised during WWII and patriotism was instilled into each of us. We were encouraged to collect scrap metal, rubber and other vital materials that could be "re-purposed" for military use. You are 100 percent correct to assume I have philosophical leanings and love my country very much.

Regarding the NFL Players who refuse to stand and respect the National Anthem... a significant number of them are of African-American Heritage... and I would think that they, of all people would understand what that flag and it's anthem mean. The Yankee Troops that fought and died in the hundreds of thousands paid for the freedom of their ancestors. Despite the fact that they were defeating my ancestors, I love that flag and anthem and would have given my life for my country if that had been required on our patrols in the Pacific from Midway to Adak to keep Russian Bombers from making an "end-run."

I respect your right... and the right of anyone to protest peacefully... but that does not include the right to dis-respect our Nation if one expects to derive the rights and privileges enjoyed from that citizenship.

As I agreed, my friend from Georgia... this topic would have been better placed in "the Bar." Just as there are fine folks in "West Mayberry"... there must be an even greater number of fine folks there in Roswell. My purpose is peace... and this topic has nothing to do with music. We are all entitled to our viewpoints and I do not believe "salsaman" intended insult or harm. If I misjudged his purpose, I apologize.

Fides-non-timet...

----Dave

Dave, I too served my country (also in Naval Aviation) for ten years so I feel that I've earned the right to the same moral authority that you seem to be now claiming. Too bad those Yankee troops had to die for something that should have been a human right to begin with (unless of course, you think slavery was a righteous cause). I'm also sorry that you've been manipulated into thinking that NFL players protesting police violence against unarmed Black men has anything to do with patriotism, but then, that's what Trump is so good at - sowing the seeds of hate and division by preying on your worst fears and most base instincts. We listen to the over 8000 documented lies with deaf ears and turn a blind eye to the despicable behavior as long as he is stacking the Supreme Court (which SHOULD be an apolitical and totally unbiased branch of government) with right-wing judges whose every judgment is totally predictable and only and always reflects the will and ideology of the religious right. News Flash - the whole country is NOT religious right. Some of us actually believe in equality for ALL it's citizens, and that the most private and personal health decisions a woman can make should not be decided by a group of old - men.

I am smart enough to know that most people in your (and mine) age group are not likely to change their perception of how the world should be. In the end, we will die and what we think will be buried with us - BUT, while we're here, maybe we can enrich our lives by expanding our belief structure, by making our own judgments rather than being led around by a nose ring by those who use the masses to enhance their own stature and whose interests never, ever extends beyond themselves.

chas

Can we get back to being a keyboard forum instead of a cable news show? I come here to get away from that crap.

Morning, Nigel:

Thanks for moving this topic to where it belongs. I am content to wait for history to determine which "faction" was on the correct path. I may not be around to see it... but at least I "took a stand" for what I believe.

All the best, ----Dave Rice

Yes, thank you Nigel. I'm like Sparky. Quite frankly, I can answer the arguments based on unverified information from the NY Times and the Washington Post with just as much sneakiness as those that are posting this junk. I really do prefer coming to SN for arranger info.

The good takeaway is, responsible citizens like Dave and Chas are taking the time to flesh out carefully articulated opinions which reflect well intentioned concern for our country and it's citizens.

It's no surprise that I'm joined at the hip with Chas and his concerns. But I also respect Dave and, as an "Air Force brat",I see where he's coming from.

My take on the immigration issue is a little different. As a long-time liberal, I've done a lot to help illegals here in Kentucky, with what some would call disappointing results. In 10 years, undocumented renters have done $100,000.00 damage to two houses (burning baseboards, stealing A/C units, stoves, refrigerators, ripping out wire, etc.).

My take is, undocumented or not, these were sort of the bottom of the renter pool, so it's my fault for trying to help people
who would destroy property, illegal or not.

I supported a family of mom, dad and three kids, and became a big supporter of the Dream act. Dad was GREAT, but lost his horse farm job after 10 years thru the E-Verify process. The littlest boy is fabulous. A great high school wrestler, working to be a jockey. Now the bad news. The next boy is in constant trouble...stealing from my garage...taking 10 albums I was having him copy onto an I-pad ("lost" the device, too). Got hired as a motorcycle mechanic by one of my friends (with my help) and left with a lot of hard feelings on the part of the shop owners (don't know the details). The little girl wrecked a new motor scooter I bought her. I had to fire her from a job I gave her helping take care of the widow of my departed music partner, George.

Mom borrowed money to bring her parents from Mexico and promised to pay it back on a certain day. After 6 months, when she "hid" her three children from me, basically stopping all communications, when I confronted her, she said, "I cannot pay you back (ONLY $600.00, but the point is not the money but the betrayal)."Don't tell my husband."

Her parents, whom I spoke to frequently on SKYPE, are confused as to what happened to the relationship. They treated me as an adopted son and appreciated the help I was giving the family. I was going to pay for college for all three children. The girl is in law school, and will be as crooked as the best lawyers in the business.

I worry about little boy # 2 and hope mom gets really sick on her flight back to Mexico.

Thing is, while this activity and more sort of mirrors the typical stereotype we all know, the take-a-way is, there are good and bad people everywhere.

The other takeaway is, one bad apple (mom, in this case), can negatively impact lives in a major way...in this case, the lives of her own children. Mom's activities have soured many on immigrants in general around here.

I am disappointed at my interaction with these people, but have not abandoned my intention to help others.


I just need to be a little more careful.

Russ

And yet, here you are....if you find this discussion so repugnant, why follow it over here to The Bar (where we're used to having more general and thought-provoking discussions). Usually over here, we don't consider discussing some of the most pressing social issues of the day, "crap" or "junk". In case you didn't notice, I was not the original poster; I merely responded to (what I consider) a truly asinine post and suggested from the very beginning that it be moved to The Bar. The fact is, this very 'discussion' is a fine example of the tribalism that is having such a devastating effect on the social fabric of this country. Freedom, equality, diversity....all things rooted in the constitution, have all become synonymous with 'Liberalism'. So-called 'Liberals' aren't asking for anything YOU don't already enjoy; they just think it should extend to ALL it's citizens. It's certainly what I spent my 10 years of service for (while Capt. BoneSpurs was running around trying to avoid STD's).

If I were God, assuming there was such a being, I'd make every adult of voting age watch equal amounts of CNN and Fox News before they were allowed to vote. But then, it's unlikely that 'God' and 'The Donald' could exist in the same universe...universe just ain't big enough for both .

chas

I agree and am glad this message got moved to the appropriate area of this discussion forum. I have learned my lesson and meant no harm by posting this message from my friend.
With this post I have learned just how deeply polarized this country has become and hope this great country survives. It's another day in paradise....

Yes, you're both right. I guess my main problem with some folks is when they claim another's opinion is 'asinine'. Just maybe I consider your opinion equally 'asinine'. It also bothers me somewhat when someone throws up 10 years of service as there justification for putting my viewpoints down. I don't usually bring it up but I will put my 20 years, Purple Heart, MSM, 2 Army Commendation medals, 2 tours in Vietnam, and a row of battle ribbons up against 10 years. I would remind you that one of the really great things about this country is we all have the right to our own idiot ideas whether we served or not.

Well that's an interesting reading of my post. Again, I was NOT the one to bring up 'service to country' (perhaps you may want to re-read the prior post - it seems so easy to ignore what we want to ignore and key in on the things that we think make our point). Someone else used that justification (just as you described) and I merely responded that my service should also count; JUST AS YOU DID. Look, you and I are probably never going to see eye to eye philosophically or politically; our cultural differences, value systems, and life experiences, all the things that define us as human beings, are probably just to vastly different to bridge in our lifetime. At one point in the last 50 years or so, we seemed to be making some progress. Since the beginning of this administration (2016) that progress has not only stopped, but has actually started to reverse itself. Many in today's society welcome this. They long for the 'good ol' days' when their elevated status gave them not only a leg up but a highly identifiable group to scapegoat for everything that was 'wrong' in the country. Now, that group has expanded to include Jews, Muslims, and most of the spanish-speaking world; in other words, practically anyone not rooted in western Europe. This IS the Trump strategy and I have to admit, he's done a masterful job of implementing it. I could go on (and on and on) but I think you get my drift. As a fellow Vet, I (sincerely) thank you for your service and respect your strong feelings about the direction of the country. However, too many examples in history (notably 1930's Germany) show that tribalism and extreme nationalism (especially based on race, religion, or culture) NEVER, EVER work out. Have a good day and I hope your health problems improve.

chas

chas, once again, you are right, we probably are never going to see eye to eye on much of anything politically. What we should be able to agree on is being able to accept that the other may have some acceptable points. One of my biggest gripes are people who cite facts that are not based in truths. A fact is a statement that a majority of learned persons accepts as truth. It does not have to be a truth but just reprieved as such. We can spin all sort of statements out of context (on both sides) and come up with new facts that fit our argument. Just because the Times or the Post makes a statement doesn't necessarily make that a valid truth. We always need to examine the basic premise. There is a point of view that perception is the truth. Sorry, but just not the case. But in the mean time it should make you fell somewhat better toward me to know that while I agree with most of the original post I do not agree with all that my President does or does not do.

And there is no better example of this than your president. This isn't something created by the press; this is something he has done with regularity in front of national TV audiences. He'll then usually follow up the next day by either doubling down or denying that he ever said it. And still the true believers believe, the evangelicals forgive, Sarah Sanders spins it, and all is right with the world...at least, Trump's world. His famous "shoot somebody on Fifth Ave" quote is uncomfortably close to the truth. And then there is his VAST African-American following consisting of Herman Cain, Clarence Thomas and, and, and...well, he's working on it .

Look, my political needs are simple; I just want a president who is president for ALL the people, not just those that look like him. There is a reason he is endorsed by White Nationalist groups, White supremacists, Outlaw Bikers, Neo-Nazis, and other antisocial groups. One only needs to look at the composition of any of his rallys to ascertain his base of support. The funny thing is, these are the very people that are in most need of the social (affordable health care) and educational programs that he's taken a chainsaw to. It's sad to see people so full of hate that they are willing to vote against their own best interest to satisfy their politically fueled hate for the 'other'. Whatever you may think about Obama and yes, George Bush, at least they were moral men who put the good of the country first.

Be well,

chas

and Kanye West of course

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwN6dPNXklg

Well that is exactly the problem with the current administration. Not once or twice but over and over and over again.

ekurburski, I'd love to share 'war stories' with you sometime (privately, of course). I'm very active in local veterans groups, especially homeless vets. I'm very concerned about the astronomical suicide rate among veterans, especially the younger guys involved in recent tours. That's another thing that irks me, old men who never served a day, in fact, using wealth and power to avoid the draft, but now full of bluster and braggadocio, trying to portray this 'tough guy' image ("I've got a bigger button") who find it oh so easy to send young kids over to die on foreign soil and then fail to provide adequate mental health care for them when they return home. Of course this last part (mental health care) predates Trump but needs to be addressed in the most urgent manner. I hope we can at least agree on that.

chas

I will go even further. I have a son-in-law that burnt his brain on drugs & booze when younger and never served a day other than in jail. He's on Medicaid. I reenlisted and did my 20 and was promised health care and dental for the rest of my life for me & my dependents. At age 65 I no longer am allowed to use the on post hospitals ect and have been switched to medicare and tricare for life. To get tricare I must pay 135 $ @mn for medicare part b. The medicaid patient pays nothing and gets more benifits.

I'm aware of that situation and it's just NOT RIGHT. That's a shameful way to treat those that have put their lives on the line while at the same time rewarding those that have sacrificed nothing. Less than 2% of the billionaire class has ever spent a single day in military service and yet reap the greatest benefits from our little foreign misadventures. But then, maybe we're lucky; I'd hate to have a Steve Mnuchin or a Steven Miller protecting my flank . The president brags about his support among veterans but it's only a matter of time before vets start to hold him accountable for the poor performance of the VA system. It started long before the current administration but he could easily correct this situation with the same ease as it took him to remove the regulations that protect our air quality and water supply.

If you're not already, I hope when you're feeling better, that you'll become active in some organization that promotes better treatment for our veterans. On this issue, we need to put politics aside and join forces to make this right.

chas

Or, there really are no "raccoons in the basement"

From the original post,
Quote: "This country became weak and bankrupt"

Really? Says who? In 2016, most of the voters did not agree with that.

Fix it?
How do you fix something that's not really broken?

I've got to admit, Trump is good at creating fake problems, and then claiming to fix them, and even better at convincing his base that he did it his way, and saved you from...whatever! When in actuality, he never "fixed" anything, and actually made many issues much worse.


BTW What happen to the National Emergency on the border? A supposed 'caravan' of possible terrorists turned out to be many women and children, seeking asylum from violence and looking for a better life. This should be embraced, and is actually a "Right Of Asylum", and not something that should be misrepresented for political gain.

As a Vietnam era vet serving in the USN, and many veterans I know, we do not support the policies of the current administration. Some of my friends actually voted for Trump, but now regret that decision. A few still think he's the greatest and he's a "fixer" What exactly did he fix?


I try not to be too political, as it can cause problems, but if we disagree with a view, it can be done in a civil manor that won't tarnish a friendship. So please don't be offended. We argue a little, then have a beer together and tell dumb jokes and have a good time. Life goes by quick.

Peace, Loveya