And yet, here you are....if you find this discussion so repugnant, why follow it over here to The Bar (where we're used to having more general and thought-provoking discussions). Usually over here, we don't consider discussing some of the most pressing social issues of the day, "crap" or "junk". In case you didn't notice, I was not the original poster; I merely responded to (what I consider) a truly asinine post and suggested from the very beginning that it be moved to The Bar. The fact is, this very 'discussion' is a fine example of the tribalism that is having such a devastating effect on the social fabric of this country. Freedom, equality, diversity....all things rooted in the constitution, have all become synonymous with 'Liberalism'. So-called 'Liberals' aren't asking for anything YOU don't already enjoy; they just think it should extend to ALL it's citizens. It's certainly what I spent my 10 years of service for (while Capt. BoneSpurs was running around trying to avoid STD's).

If I were God, assuming there was such a being, I'd make every adult of voting age watch equal amounts of CNN and Fox News before they were allowed to vote. But then, it's unlikely that 'God' and 'The Donald' could exist in the same universe...universe just ain't big enough for both .

chas

I agree and am glad this message got moved to the appropriate area of this discussion forum. I have learned my lesson and meant no harm by posting this message from my friend.
With this post I have learned just how deeply polarized this country has become and hope this great country survives. It's another day in paradise....

Yes, you're both right. I guess my main problem with some folks is when they claim another's opinion is 'asinine'. Just maybe I consider your opinion equally 'asinine'. It also bothers me somewhat when someone throws up 10 years of service as there justification for putting my viewpoints down. I don't usually bring it up but I will put my 20 years, Purple Heart, MSM, 2 Army Commendation medals, 2 tours in Vietnam, and a row of battle ribbons up against 10 years. I would remind you that one of the really great things about this country is we all have the right to our own idiot ideas whether we served or not.

Well that's an interesting reading of my post. Again, I was NOT the one to bring up 'service to country' (perhaps you may want to re-read the prior post - it seems so easy to ignore what we want to ignore and key in on the things that we think make our point). Someone else used that justification (just as you described) and I merely responded that my service should also count; JUST AS YOU DID. Look, you and I are probably never going to see eye to eye philosophically or politically; our cultural differences, value systems, and life experiences, all the things that define us as human beings, are probably just to vastly different to bridge in our lifetime. At one point in the last 50 years or so, we seemed to be making some progress. Since the beginning of this administration (2016) that progress has not only stopped, but has actually started to reverse itself. Many in today's society welcome this. They long for the 'good ol' days' when their elevated status gave them not only a leg up but a highly identifiable group to scapegoat for everything that was 'wrong' in the country. Now, that group has expanded to include Jews, Muslims, and most of the spanish-speaking world; in other words, practically anyone not rooted in western Europe. This IS the Trump strategy and I have to admit, he's done a masterful job of implementing it. I could go on (and on and on) but I think you get my drift. As a fellow Vet, I (sincerely) thank you for your service and respect your strong feelings about the direction of the country. However, too many examples in history (notably 1930's Germany) show that tribalism and extreme nationalism (especially based on race, religion, or culture) NEVER, EVER work out. Have a good day and I hope your health problems improve.

chas

chas, once again, you are right, we probably are never going to see eye to eye on much of anything politically. What we should be able to agree on is being able to accept that the other may have some acceptable points. One of my biggest gripes are people who cite facts that are not based in truths. A fact is a statement that a majority of learned persons accepts as truth. It does not have to be a truth but just reprieved as such. We can spin all sort of statements out of context (on both sides) and come up with new facts that fit our argument. Just because the Times or the Post makes a statement doesn't necessarily make that a valid truth. We always need to examine the basic premise. There is a point of view that perception is the truth. Sorry, but just not the case. But in the mean time it should make you fell somewhat better toward me to know that while I agree with most of the original post I do not agree with all that my President does or does not do.

And there is no better example of this than your president. This isn't something created by the press; this is something he has done with regularity in front of national TV audiences. He'll then usually follow up the next day by either doubling down or denying that he ever said it. And still the true believers believe, the evangelicals forgive, Sarah Sanders spins it, and all is right with the world...at least, Trump's world. His famous "shoot somebody on Fifth Ave" quote is uncomfortably close to the truth. And then there is his VAST African-American following consisting of Herman Cain, Clarence Thomas and, and, and...well, he's working on it .

Look, my political needs are simple; I just want a president who is president for ALL the people, not just those that look like him. There is a reason he is endorsed by White Nationalist groups, White supremacists, Outlaw Bikers, Neo-Nazis, and other antisocial groups. One only needs to look at the composition of any of his rallys to ascertain his base of support. The funny thing is, these are the very people that are in most need of the social (affordable health care) and educational programs that he's taken a chainsaw to. It's sad to see people so full of hate that they are willing to vote against their own best interest to satisfy their politically fueled hate for the 'other'. Whatever you may think about Obama and yes, George Bush, at least they were moral men who put the good of the country first.

Be well,

chas

and Kanye West of course

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwN6dPNXklg

Well that is exactly the problem with the current administration. Not once or twice but over and over and over again.

ekurburski, I'd love to share 'war stories' with you sometime (privately, of course). I'm very active in local veterans groups, especially homeless vets. I'm very concerned about the astronomical suicide rate among veterans, especially the younger guys involved in recent tours. That's another thing that irks me, old men who never served a day, in fact, using wealth and power to avoid the draft, but now full of bluster and braggadocio, trying to portray this 'tough guy' image ("I've got a bigger button") who find it oh so easy to send young kids over to die on foreign soil and then fail to provide adequate mental health care for them when they return home. Of course this last part (mental health care) predates Trump but needs to be addressed in the most urgent manner. I hope we can at least agree on that.

chas

I will go even further. I have a son-in-law that burnt his brain on drugs & booze when younger and never served a day other than in jail. He's on Medicaid. I reenlisted and did my 20 and was promised health care and dental for the rest of my life for me & my dependents. At age 65 I no longer am allowed to use the on post hospitals ect and have been switched to medicare and tricare for life. To get tricare I must pay 135 $ @mn for medicare part b. The medicaid patient pays nothing and gets more benifits.