Source PSR Tutorial Forum:..

"My Genos froze last night, 5 minutes before starting a gig.
The buttons didn't respond, neither did the menus or anything else for that matter.
I tried switching it off but that didn't work either, so I had to unplug the power cable
in order to switch it off.
I then did a reset, just to be sure, and then it got working again.
I have owned a Tyros3 for 10 years, and not once did it ever freeze.
It was robust and reliable until the motherboard started giving me problems a
couple of months ago.
I have owned the Genos for almost 3 months now and it's already showing weaknesses.
I am not a big fan of the Genos but had to buy it out of necessity 2 days before starting
my gig season, when my T3 gave me trouble and there was nothing else available at short
notice.
I am trying so hard to like this instrument, but the sound is terrible and I struggle every day
to get a decent sound out of it, Especially from the preset styles.
It's incredible that the 3rd party styles posted on this very forum sound better than many
of the Genos preset styles.
I suspect that whoever designed or programmed these styles, especially the drums,
has never gigged in the real world of noisy stages, bars, restaurants, hotels etc.and have
probably spent most of their time in the safety of a sanitized studio.
Car manufacturers clock 10s of thousands of miles testing their cars, from the coldest
arctic climates to the hottest deserts of the world, not to mention racetracks like the
Nurburgring,, before presenting them to the public as a finished product.
I am now gigging 6 times a week, so I won't really be able to try any more adjustments
until early November, when the gigs slow down a bit.
The compressor settings aren't much to write home about, as all they seem to do is
mainly just raise the general volume or strangle the right hand voices when
increased.
After trying various EQ settings, without any improvement in sound, I only succeeded
in damaging the woofer on one of my main JBL speakers.
This is a flawed instrument in so many ways, and I refuse to insistently repeat the mantra
of "Genos good, Genos good" as some may want to do here.
Doing so would be like making excuses for a partner who constantly lets you down.
It is time for us to come clean and admit that what we have here is an instrument
with questionable durability and reliability, not to mention other flaws.
I put an instrument to the test 6 nights a week every week, for the most diverse public
that one can find anywhere, maintaining the gig intensity for 180 nights every year,
before things slow down to 2 or 3 gigs a week.
So I like to think that this has enabled me to have a bit of knowledge about sound quality
and dynamics.
And just to dispel the notion that this is Yamaha bashing, I have exclusively used Yamaha
instruments since 1971, apart from my current JBLs and Kawai MP11, and a Fender Rhodes
I owned from 1980 to 1984.
I've owned Yamaha Organs, Synthesizers, Leslies, Amplifiers, PA sound systems,Saxophones, Flutes, Pianos, a Trumpet, and 2 Yamaha motorbikes."

Abby (Pianoman)

Thoughts?

[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx&app=desktop[/video]

This is the first post of a very, very extensive thread on the PSR Tutorial site. For those of you that remember Abby Pianoman, he is an incredibly talented entertainer that resides in Ibiza, which is a small island in the Mediterranean off the coast of Spain. It is a very popular tourist destination for northern Europeans and the musical entertainment competition is quite keen. Abby is rated very high by his peers and the local entertainment industry.

He has been using Yamaha products for 47 years, and prior to his Genos locking up, he had been performing with a Tyros3, which served him well for many years. Unfortunately, with his heavy schedule it had just worn out. Though he tried to find another T3 to replace it, in his part of the world, the only thing readily available was a new Genos. He had no choice but to purchase the keyboard.

While Abby had hoped the Genos would sound as good or even better than his T3, he was unable to get the sounds he enjoyed over those many years with the T3. His comments above reflect his experiences and frustration in trying to achieve perfection, and he is, by all means, a perfectionist when it comes to being a musician and entertainer.

As everyone that has ever used complex electronic devices knows, lockups are not at all uncommon and they often come at the worst times. PCs, Cellular phones, Pads, etc..., all experience lockups when the operating system encounters a conflicting file, or corrupt file. I have never had my keyboard lockup during a performance, but have had an occasional lockup when I loaded a corrupt midi and style file. That's why we test these things before we go on stage - just to be on the safe side.

As Abby has stated at times, there are those that absolutely love their Genos and those that hate their Genos. At this point, he is quite frustrated and just hoping someone can provide him with a solution. He's close to getting the sound he wishes, but still struggling with the drums.

If you can be of assistance, you can go to the Genos section of the PSR Tutorial forum and post your information on the thread.

Gary

Maybe he just got a 'lemon' ... it happens with any product ...
Has he reached out to Yamaha?

I am fairly sure he contacted the dealer, but not sure if he contacted Yamaha customer service. Don't think it's a lemon, but there is always that possibility, Tony.

Gary

The heart of a Genos is still a computer/processor..
If you feed it corrupt data or corrupted power, unexpected things are bound to happen..

Nothing wrong with Genos, its the most stable instrument i ever owned..

Bachus, I believe that the problem may have been the result of corrupt power surges, which are quite common on many of the Mediterranean islands and also in the Caribbean islands, where I performed when I was a kid in the US Navy many years ago. When UPS systems became available at a reasonable price, I purchased one, though I rarely used it because of it's weight. Now, they are much lighter and electronically controlled to switch over so there is no lag time. When we encountered those kind of problems, the problem was never a high voltage surge, but instead, the voltage would frequently fall below minimum required for our gear, which resulted in either shut down, or lock up.

Gary

Aside from the power FREEZE problem he had ......
why doesn't a Seasoned pro like Abby like the sound
of GENOS vs the others he plays every night on a gig as mentioned in the OP?

"I am trying so hard to like this instrument, but the sound is terrible and I struggle every day
to get a decent sound out of it, Especially from the preset styles.
It's incredible that the 3rd party styles posted on this very forum sound better than many
of the Genos preset styles.
I suspect that whoever designed or programmed these styles, especially the drums,
has never gigged in the real world of noisy stages, bars, restaurants, hotels etc.and have
probably spent most of their time in the safety of a sanitized studio."

Sounds like he not a fan of the Genos sound, so it's a good thing there are plenty of other choices out there.

As far as the keyboard just freezing on the gig, it makes me think what would I do in that situation? Do you carry a backup KB? Could you get through a gig on just your phone/tablet or laptop and DJ/sing? Could you make the best with an unfamiliar keyboard that has is at the venue?
Do you have anything in your contracts regarding equipment failure? Things to think about....

Paul a long time ago I recorded in style play Every song I play on an
arranger keyboard as a backing track (567) of them maybe 10 or so a day, just for this reason.Then you can play them and sing on your phone, laptop, tablet, etc, or whatever and whenever the situation arises. It took a few months to do but once done it's a great thing to have just in case. Hint:..Just play the song as you would but Don't plug in your MIC just sing into on the stand it as if it were so you get the perfect Vocal timing and your backing tracks will sound live as ever as in reality you are singing to your own music.
There's many ways to skin a cat if your KB goes down on a gig..

When you perform 5 to 7 days/nights a week, you need backups available on the job. I'm fairly confident that if my keyboard were to ever drop dead on the job, I could finish the evening just doing karaoke with MP3 files on my laptop.

If my amp were to drop dead, I carried a spare amp with me all the time, and I could be up and running within a couple minutes. Also carried spare mics, spare cables, spare power supplies, and everything was protected with a very high quality surge protector with a ground fault indicator.

I know that Donny carried spares with him as well, and he could easily continue through the night on his vocals and MP3s, or just DJ the remainder of the night.

I guess the worst thing that could happen to me is I were to drop dead in the middle of a performance. This happened to at least three of my friends during the past 10 years, one of which, Jimsax, was a forum member.

All the best,

Gary

Unfortunately Abby DIDN'T have any other choices, given his location and time requirements. He had auditioned the Genos several times previously and never did like it much. Apparently he still doesn't. I tried for a full day and didn't like it that much either.
As to backup...it's easy to have MP3s, midi files, etc., on laptop, tablet, phone...
I have two reasons for playing everything in stereo. First, because it sounds way better, second because I always have a backup p.a. with me. If the mixer were to go out, I can run directly into the various inputs on one of the Mauis. If one of them goes out, I can use the other one.
All the Genos owners over at PSR Tutorial are getting upset because someone has the gall to actually criticize the keyboard for which they paid so much money.
It's just gear. One size doesn't fit all.

I agree with your Don,....also I think Yamaha people are getting frustrated that no new models are being released and the tension and anticipation yearning for NEW is building.
And Yes it's even further fueled when the high price burns a whole in your soul & in your pocket and lower priced MOTL units sound just as good..Working KB pros know what I am talking about.

Take care

I feel like Gary nailed it. Motherboard damaged by spikes, surges, or brown-outs. These are computers at heart. Especially in an unstable environment, a UPS is your friend!!

Hmmm...

Well yes, we have seen that before, haven’t we? At PSR...
Its a lovely friendly website, but some people are just a little to much biased to Yamaha..

Its just like with apples and pears, most like apples, some like pears.
Where it comes to taste, its just opinions and they are all vallid as long as they are not biased.

I agree with you..

When you read between the lines, you read the same old story..

Yamaha arrangers are build to sound good trough headphones and on GNS-ms1 speakers or a set of monitors in a living room... the styles are arranged for solo playing.. and are often to busy... 10 years ago people didn’t like the tyros because how Yamaha does drums...

I as a non performer can see why performers would choose ketron or Korg above the Genos... and why home players ar so happy with the Genos..

My Genos sounds great, i keep discovering new sounds almost every day, some are so beatifull that they make me emotional just by pkaying them..

Except Abby has played Yamaha for years. I believe he about wore out his Tyros 3, so, as Donny asks, why is Genos less suited?

The PSR Tutorial site IS, primarily, a Yamaha website, a site where Yamaha keyboard owners go to learn how to use their Yamaha arranger keyboards. Hence, the name of the site.

In contrast, the Synthzone has a General Arranger Keyboard forum section, where all arranger keyboards are covered.

All the best,

Gary

Even on a fansite, it would be better if people let some room for criticisme..
But being critical on Psr tutorial often feels like walking on eggs..

Sure its a website where people go to learn and share about Yamaha, and its thebest website on the world for that. But often the criticisme has a reason.. and closing eyes and ears for it is something i personally dont understand and leads to lots of unneccesary frustration on both sides,..


In the above topic, someone even acused Abby of being payed by the competition to be critical about the Genos.. and i tought really? How frustrated can you get just because of a different opinion?

You can't convince a TRUE BELIEVER of ANYTHING. For the true believer (fanboy in musical terms), there is no place for reason, no room for logic, and most of all, no tolerance for a differing opinion. I'm not a religious person but some of my favorite quotes happen to be biblical, ie. "THERE IS NONE SO BLIND AS HE THAT WILL NOT SEE".

chas

HUMILITY IS THE DOOR TO WISDOM

John C.

PS, An opinion can never be wrong because it is only an opinion, not fact.

Well said John..

I have been on the PSR Tutorial site since it began, and I am a moderator there as well. It's not that no one no like to read criticism of Yamaha products. Usually, when there is criticism, it's because the owner/user has encountered a problem they can not solve or cope with. Fortunately, there are lots of highly skilled users on the site that have a wealth of technical knowledge. These folks have delved into the inner workings of nearly all Yamaha arranger keyboards and synths and more often than not, come up with a solid solution to someone's problems. Or, at the very least, point them in the right direction for a workaround. Not only do they do this with arranger keyboards, but also with amps, mixers, mics, etc..., thus providing the members with a wealth of information at their fingertips.

For example, Don Mason, who is a died in the wool Korg guy, frequents the PSR site and does an excellent job of providing technical information to forum members who encounter problems. DNJ spends a fair amount of time at this site as well. I see Bachus there, too. And, a couple years ago, Yamaha was still monitoring the site and Steve Demming would often chime in and provide some great insight to technical problems.

Chas, the PSR Tutorial site offers a lot of flexibility to all it's forum members. Maybe you should pay a visit to the site and explore the various forum sections. It would take most folks the better part of a day to go through them all, mainly because the site is so diverse.

One thing to keep in mind though, no moderator will tolerate personal attacks on another member. When this happened in the past, those members were banned, some permanently.

All the best,

Gary

I have no need for it Gary. I only have an old (and mostly unused) Tyros II and a equally dated Motif ES. I haven't touched either one since forever. My reference was to the superfan who "even acused Abby of being payed by the competition to be critical about the Genos..". These are the kinds of conspiracy theories that will arise when people take (what should be) superficial things too seriously....and there are always a few idiots around who will buy into it. Parallels abound (wink, wink). Anyway, I tend to call things as I see them, not as people want them to be, so often this runs afoul of standard forum demeanor (let's just say I'm from the 'Diki' school of forum posting ).

Luckily for me (and for forums everywhere ), 90% of my playing time is devoted to my KeyB organ and my SEVEN (Rhodes clone), both of which anyone can learn (operationally) in five minutes. This lets me spend 99% of my time PLAYING. I also have the Numa Compact 2x but that also only took about 10 minutes to learn all of it's functions. I've found that the older I get, the less I'm inclined to tackle complex situations (like a PA4x or Genos). I am, however, rediscovering and enjoying my Alesis VX49 w/VIP and all the great VSTi's that it contains. Hope this clarifies and explains that I was not 'throwing shade' on the PSR Tutorial forum or any of it's members (except maybe the conspiracy guy ).

chas

Doesn‘t the Genos include most of the sounds the Tyros 3 had? I can‘t imagine how it isn‘t possible to recreate the Tyros 3 sound with the Genos if you really intend to.

I have loyalty to no brand. I've had about 20 Yamaha arrangers, five Korg, four Technics, five Ketrons, five Rolands, over the years.
Right now I have three arrangers.

Yes, they are held in a section called "Legacy Voices". However, the T3 drum kits are in another area, if I recall correctly, and not used in the Genos onboard styles. Now, those Genos styles can be edited, and the old T3 drum kits inserted, but this requires a lot of time and effort. I believe Addy is in the process of doing this.

Gary

Maybe the June update will correct some of the Genos problems, but I also wonder, do T3 sounds and styles loaded into a Genos, sound like a T3 or does the Genos change parameters completely?

My Genos froze too, but it was not on a gig it was on the drive to Florida when we had single digit numbers on the thermometer and the keyboard stayed in the van overnight! Ha. Just throwing some cheap humor.

All kidding aside I have no brand loyalty either, I’ve had Ketron, Roland G70 ( although the Ketron and Roland for less than a year). I’ve been blessed and have the Genos, Pa4x, S970 and a Clavinova CVP307. I don’t take offense to anyone criticizing the Genos. I love the Pa4x and the Genos is right at the top with it. To take Donny’s point a step further, MOTL S970 does a great job for me at gigs too. I’ve had plenty of compliments with the arrangers but I’m not sure anyone in the audience truly knows whether I’m using a Genos or a Korg. As I always I think it’s we the musician who the brand means most to.

At this point there is not much left to choose from anyway and frequent NEW model releases just a thing of the past and far between. Besides that most all brand arrangers today from low to high priced sound remarkably close and really usable leaving you
scratching your head in bewilderment as to why
spend so much or just get one of each MOTL units..

I also have been using Yamaha instruments among others....for a very long time, Acetone top 1, Electone D2B, Electone E 10 AR, then Hammond X66, Hammond B3000, X66 again, Roland E20, D20, Ensoniq SQ1, Yamaha DX 100, Yamaha Electone FX1, Yamaha Electone HS6(2) with all the modules CVS 10 AVS 10 and MDR3, Korg X3, Yamaha Electone EL 90, Roland VA7, Ketron X1, Ketron SD1, SD1Plus, Yamaha PSR 3000, Korg PA500, PA800, Roland BK 5, PA 600, Yamaha Tyros 2,3,4,5 Genos, now I also have other 2 Hammond X66 just to be enjoy at my place...no gigging with those....I am to old to carry all that weight.

One thing for sure, when I purchased the VA7 did not like it at all, I sold it less than 3 months from the date I purchased, at the time, I was living in Mexico and could not test the instrument before I made the purchase...But, when you have the chance to test it several times, and did not like it...why buy it?, and if you do, you already have a negative predisposition, aptitude or bad expectative. I know that X brand is not for everyone, perhaps W or Z....

I feel bad for the guy, and I agree with Gary, is very probable that the AC is not as stable, I did deal with that long time ago(around 42-43 years ), when I went to perform with my Hammond X66 ( it had a motor for the tone generator and another for the scanners/vibratos), I did play in a small community out of my town, and they had a line of light bulbs around the court, and every time I push the expression pedal, the lights dimmed and the tone of the organ went down....could not play very loud, so, to say the least, it was an interesting lonngg evening....!!! A friend of mine was playing with a Roland in another place more recently, and when the voltage drop below 110 W. simply the Roland turned off.

In my case, I am glad that I really like my Genos, and to my 51 years as a Pro musician, is a treat to use it, besides the perks I get collaborating with Yamaha making some of the Expansion Packs.

Owned over a year Genos. My Genos is loaded with 1,7 GB of samples. Never any problems.

Owned many Yamahas since 1997 and for sure in my opinions the Genos is Best.


Best Regards

Are you gigging your genos every night heavy like Abby does too?..
processors do lock up and freeze on any computerized devices.
I have had that happen with many keyboards.
Thank goodness for my laptop as back up while rebooting.

I do gig very often....18 gigs as an average per month, some months barely have a few days off.....Remember that many times is much rougher on the keyboards, the constant moving, loading, setting up, un do the settup, re load and travel vibrations, and over again and again.....
I also used to play full time in the Hotels(many years), 6 days at week and since the equipment does not move, the only ocasional issue was dusty contacts, so, I cleaned the contacts mainly the mixer or in some connections.

My Genos has not let me down, same as my previous boards, Tyros 5,4,3,2......( I had to change in my T2 the ribbon cable (Screen) was the only issue after 3 plus years of use.)

I can say that in much less than a year, I got my moneys worth.... I guess I am lucky too.

my 2 cents

Manuel