Gary, even if every thing you say is true, it is so NOT THE POINT. Every time someone tries to make a valid point about arranger keyboards, some devotee' will perceive it as some kind of slight and immediately go to defcon 1 and rattle off the same old irrelevant BS. Even when the OMB, 'sketch pad', home amusement exceptions are noted, it seems to make scant difference. Out come the sabers (in the form of unrelated arguments). You don't need to be a great driver to make a living driving for Uber or Lyft but you do to compete in Formula One. What does job frequency or your saving habits have to do with anything Bill or I said? It just means that you're a responsible family man who was able to maximize a minimal skill set with the help of a semi-automatic keyboard. It does NOT de-legitimize anything Bill or I said in our last post.

Hey, my thing is organs, specifically Hammond organs or their digital clones. Everybody doesn't share my love of organs; truth is, I literally can't stand the sound of theatre organs and/or pipe organs; they grate on my nerves the same way accordions and bagpipes do. So I guess you could say I'm more a fan of the JAZZ organ/rock organ sound rather than the physical instrument. Whatever. No need to take every observation about arrangers (especially the true ones) as arranger bashing. Also, the old "why are on this forum?" thing is getting kind of old as well. I can't speak for Bill but for me, after all these years, there are people on this forum that I genuinely like and enjoy communicating with AND...I OWN THREE (3) ARRANGERS (and two more in storage).

chas

Henni, I was a church pianist/organist/choir director ever since my teenage years. So I am familiar with "church music" and I'll say an arranger keyboard is a double-edged sword to use a biblical expression, especially in a church setting. However, it seems that you know how to wield it. So more power to you!
Chris

Abacus and chas I genuinely respect you both . But if I may I would like to suggest that you both are missing the point .

What sets an arranger apart from most other keyboards is not want it can’t do compared to other keyboards but absolutely what it can do compared to other keyboards .

Most musicians know that an arranger has auto accompaniment and like bill and chas mistakenly pigeon whole the keyboard as this one trick pony .

Most do not know what else the instrument is capable of !

That’s the point .

It’s literally like saying I have a mountain bike that has multiple gears including very low gears but I would never ride it on the road because it has low gears . its high gears are ignored , it’s comfortable seat and seating position light but incredibly strong frame don’t matter as it’s unsuitable for use in the road because it has these pesky low gears that I probably won’t use cuz their associated with mountain biking !

Similarly I don’t know why you both bring in issues that have very little to do with whether one uses an arranger keyboard or any keyboard to argue why a pro won’t consider using an arranger keyboard .

When in a studio setting , does the equipment , software hardware you are connecting to realise you are using an arranger keyboard and decide it won’t connect ? When making tracks does your client know whether you used an arranger to lay down the tracks ? Even if you used styles or laid down each and every note yourself ? Does the sound engineer immediately say “get that arranger out it’s only good for hobbyists and one man bands! “

If I buy a great sampled piano or guitar for an arranger or workstation can you hear the difference when that sample is played on either board ?

Furthermore chas to use the argument that most pro players don’t buy arrangers to explain why most pro players would not play an arranger is simply circular reasoning .

They don’t buy them for lots of reasons whether that’s expense or availability’ or lack of awareness or whatever does not explain why they would not play one .

Last time I looked , they come in various sizes the keys are black and white , they can have lots of wonderful sounds and editing facilities and split points and set ups and songbooks (incidentally that the workstation world borrowed from arrangers )so why would they not play them ?

As for cost , does a pro player look at the keyboard they are about to play and then say “how much did it cost ? Nope I can’t play that !! It’s too expensive !! “

In short talk to me about the things 40,50,or 60% of things a pro musician does routinely in the pubs and clubs and studios and stages and holiday resorts around the world that they routinely could not do on an arranger . I’d really like to know .

Listen I am tired and a bit grumpy today after having to explain to my boss why serena Williams is not the greatest player to have ever played the sport of tennis 😩 including every male player . That the wage gap is a mathematical hoax and not everything is determined by hierarchy power . Don’t get me started . Enjoy your evening folks .

"There is none so blind as he that WILL not see".

chas

Love you chas as my musician brother 👍. But as an expositor you could use a little coaching 🤣.

Gary, Obviously, I don't know what years you are talking about when you were squeezing out $100 each before expenses, but from around the mid 70s we were charging $1000 to $1200 for 5 guys, 4 hours ... Late 70s to 1984 when I moved to RI it was$1300 - $1500 ...
Guess I was lucky to be playing in the greater NY area ...

If I were playing in a full time band today I would probably opt for a multi voiced digital piano that also had strings and vibes, and a Hammond clone of some sort ...

And Gary, just as a point of information, 99% of my work is OMB ... when I do have the opportunity to play with other musicians, it's usually just a guitar player or sax player ...

But what does all of this waste of bandwidth prove?!? - NOTHING ...
We should all just be happy we are still here and able to provide music and enjoyment for others - even if we are using wax paper on a comb !!!

(Wow, I haven't needed a comb in years ! ... oh, wait, that's another thread )

Ok, had to look up the word (expositor) , but in my defense let me say, it is incumbent upon the other party to listen without bias. Oh, and love you too, Bro', mainly because of the work you do with our youth. That may be the single MOST important thing any of us can do (personally, I can't stand the little maggots but I do recognize the importance of providing a positive environment for them to grow into good productive citizens). I assume (and hope) you're still working with the youth choir. Have a good day and in the meantime I'll work on trying to articulate things in a way that's easier for you to understand . I'll ask Bill to do the same .

chas

What we have here, Chas and Bill, "Is a failure to communicate." That's OK. I can see this thread is going nowhere fast.

Spalding - you hit the nail on the head!

Sure glad I drink,

Gary

No, I think he hit his thumb, the nail was untouched .

chas

It was a thumb I wasn’t using much anyway chas 🤣 I play arrangers keyboards after all . Only need to press buttons . In fact my thumb is so big now I can press multiple buttons at once ! That’s got to be a good thing right ? because everyone knows that being able to press multiple buttons is consistent with making great music on an arranger . The converse is true when playing them workstation thingies like wot the pros use. .....