Naw Bernie, Chas ain’t that nice. (smile)
John C.

ditto...

Why would a pro even consider using one. They HAVE BANDS AND BACKUP HARMONY SINGERS ETC ... Arrangers are entirely for those THAT DON'T HAVE BANDS ETC. For those that don't have bands then arranger keyboards are the obvious choice. I don't think it is even a question of pro performers avoiding them. Pro performers and arrangers are worlds apart.

I'm sure glad I didn't know that during the past 20 or 30 years. I would have had to get a real job!

An arranger keyboard is still a keyboard 😳. Why would a pro not use a keyboard of any kind ? If I sat in a concert with other live musicians as I often do playing the keyboard parts or supplementing the horns or playing sine wave lead or synth pads , do you think anyone knows including the other musicians I am playing with that my keyboard is an arranger ?

It has been said over and over that an arranger keyboard is a multipurpose instrument and it’s versatility is its greatest strength but unfortunately least known strength because of a basic prejudice that still persists that somehow the automation is essential when playing an arranger keyboard . It simply is not . But it’s great to have it when you do t have a band in situ and you need to sketch out a musical idea , as well as produce partial or complete tracks or surprise surprise just sit and play keyboards .

Spalding, I love your post. It is the lack of imagination and not the instrument that gives an arranger it’s so called a bad rep.

I was tuning a piano in a high-end country club. I heard that were looking for a piano player for their dinning room. When I told them, I played a keyboard they said no, they wanted a piano player. I asked them to give one night, I got an OK.

I turned my Kn7000 into a piano. Every instrument in the styles, except the drums and bass, were replaced by a piano. What they heard was soft drums, a gentle bass, and piano. They replaced me after fours years, the powers to be wanted to see a piano in the dinning room.

John C.

You’re missing the point Spalding, even if you are correct, an Arranger Keyboard is an Arranger keyboard because of its Auto Backings, (It’s just a modern version of the old Easy Play Organ backings) take these away and it is no longer an arranger keyboard, just a normal synth/workstation, however if you look on the market you will find much better synth/Workstations with better voices, features and flexibility then an arranger keyboard for considerably less money, so why would a pro pay more money for less, just to get features (Auto-Backing) that he doesn’t want or need.

If you are in a band/group then you do not need auto backings as the band/group supplies far superior backings to the arranger, the same applies in the studio, as you can use software/hardware to make a far superior backing than an arranger keyboard with canned styles. (In most cases for considerably less money)

For what they are, (The home hobby player who no longer wants an organ) arranger keyboards are brilliant, and as you say great for OMB and a sketch pad, but when you have much better available for less money geared to the pro market, they are an unnecessary luxury.

Bill

I think Bill is 100% spot on. To point out it's NON-arranger features as justification for pro use misses the point. He DID acknowledge it's potential value as a 'sketch pad' or for OMB use, but aside from that and 'home' use, there would be little reason, musically or economically, for a 'pro' to choose an arranger over a conventional synth/workstation. Based upon who buys them, at least in the American market, I'd say this analysis is pretty much indisputable. To say otherwise is just being unrealistic and/or defensive about something we PERSONALLY like and use. What we perceive as a stigma by other musicians may in fact just be a well-thought out decision by a professional musician based upon their needs and economic considerations.

I think the whole concept of auto-accompaniment, from 'easy-play' organs to modern Arranger keyboards, was to help the less-accomplished musician improve their performance. The best way to do that is to provide 'professional' accompaniment with an 'amateur' skill level. As with anything, the more skilled the player, the better the performance, whether using an arranger keyboard or an acoustic piano. And no, I don't 'hate' arranger keyboards (I have three of them). I don't think Bill does either. Just pointing out the facts.

chas

Like my dear friend, DonM, I'm sure glad I didn't know all this or I would have had to find a real job, too.

Also like many others on this forum, we have been in bands for many years, some still are, such as TonyM, but for one reason or another, we prefer being on stage with our arranger keyboards. In my case it was a combination of economics and reliability. The guys I performed with were all considered great musicians in their own realm - no doubt about it. The problems I encountered with some was they failed to show up on time, and some had a drinking problem, which by the end of the night effected their performance ability.

Economically, even when we played the highest paying jobs locally, at best we managed to scrape out $100 per person before expenses for a 4-hour job. Jobs for a full band didn't come along more than once a week, and it was impossible to support a family on $100 a week, even back then. Consequently, I went solo, switched to the senior circuit, switched from a 12-string guitar and singing to an arranger keyboard and singing, and was able to find work 7-days-a-week. I wasn't a better player or worse player because I switched to an arranger keyboard, well, maybe a bit better because it really improved my timing.

Ironically, my audiences were all about the same age, despite whether I was playing in an upscale restaurant in Baltimore's Little Italy or a retirement community on the outskirts of town. Even when I performed at The Raven Inn, a local nite club in Towson, MD, the audiences ranged from 55 to 75 years of age, with an occasional 25 to 35 year old couple on the dance floor.

Now, when I was a have guitar will travel entertainer, I thought I was pretty versatile, but in reality, I was not. Sure, I could vary my style of strumming and picking, but it was still just a single person on the stage with a guitar and singing.

When I switched to an arranger keyboard, that single entertainer on stage was transformed into the most versatile player in the area. I could play just about any song there was and do it with a style that lent to that song sounded very close to the original rendition, which is what the audiences wanted to hear. Yet, I still had lots of latitude to be creative, add some licks of my own, throw in some neat breaks and utilize sounds that I never had access to with the band. I was having fun, making lots of money, and only working a couple hours a night, or day.

Ironically, most of the pro musicians I worked with were still working one day a week or less, they were still just as proficient as they were in the past, but ALL had other forms of income other than music. I was not nearly as musically skilled as some of them, but I was working every day, often more than one job a day, putting money in a savings and retirement account and able to support my family. For me, the arranger keyboard is probably the most versatile, musical instrument ever created - bar none! There is absolutely no limit to what you can do with it both on stage and off. You just need to use some creativity.

When it comes to stigma of playing an arranger keyboard on stage, I believe the only stigma comes in the form of professional jealousy. Yep, I'm on stage, singing and playing to a variety of audiences, and making a damned good living doing so, while those guitar players, sax players, horn players, piano players, etc... are sitting in the audiences and not working.

Good topic,

Gary

I used to play guitar in a church band. Some services, when everyone was in perfect unity, the music was awesome and extremely uplifting.

Then came the next Sunday and it was just the exact opposite for whatever reasons. This drove me into the arms of an arranger. As long as I am tuned in to the Holy Spirit, the music is awesome. Only myself to blame if not.

I am not a professional in any way or form. But the arranger sure works for me. When we do open air outreaches we unpack our stuff and then wow!!! The area comes to life with vibrant music with only me and Monica on "stage".

I sure love my arrangers with all their automated features!!!