I think, as Don alluded to, that the designation 'Pro' or Professional denotes a level of expertise over and above the 'amateur' level. Proficiency, not the ability to make a buck, should be the measure of a Professional. Legends such as Charlie Parker, Bud Powell, even the great Billie Holiday, all died broke or at least much poorer than most of you guys, but no one would ever question whether or not they were Professionals. The kid that cuts your grass for money is NOT a professional landscaper. If he cuts enough lawns, he can actually make a living doing it.....but he still isn't a professional landscaper.

What's sad about this post is that, like all others before it, no matter what the original point or premise was, it always deteriorates into a defense of arrangers and/or arranger players. I love stuff like "well Keith Jarrett played one, I think he even bought it". Really, well did you ever see him play one in concert, on a stage, in a recording? No, I didn't think so. This entire post is so far south, mainly because in their eagerness to defend the honor of arrangers and arranger players, almost everyone missed the gist of the post. The fact that in the world of professional musicians, very few use arrangers, is merely a fact (for whatever reason), not a criticism of your choice of equipment. Even when a poster acknowledges it's value in a OMB act, it's ignored and the battle lines are still drawn. Sad that our (misguided) emotions won't (or can't) allow for any kind of meaningful discussion about arrangers that doesn't shower the instrument with praise and glory. Oh well.

chas

Guys, I think we have all missed a critical element here. For me, the choice of equipment is shaped by the intended final product.

If you want to sound like a 10 piece band, you "ain't" gonna get there with just a piano. If you are playing where dancing is a part of the deal an arranger gets you mostly there, with some significant limitations/compromises.

If you are an entertainer doing show material as a single, the arranger may be the way to go if you don't want to do karaoke
or use tracks in some other way.

Use equipment, but don't become dependent on it, I say. Decide what satisfies your need to play, and DO IT!

I am cutting back, and a local restaurant wants me 2 hours Thursday and 4 hours on Friday and Saturday. It's in a bar, attached to a dining room, so I am contemplating using an SD-5 for the drums, a Hammond SK-1 on top for the organ and left hand
and a Roland synth over an electric piano on the right hand.

Frankly, part of the reason will be for looks. I'll also have a double neck, a Strat, a nylon string, a jazz box and a hi bred, with a pick-up and piezo. And, yes, if the tune(s) and crowd requires it, I may use the arranger function occasionally. And, yes, the equipment will stay on the band stand.

Look, rarely is any situation ideal. If it were, I'd be making $50,000 a night playing fusion.

I am not particularly fond of my restaurant gigs, and it's hard to get off on playing music to be used to sell paint. But to not realize how lucky I am to be making a great living doing all the things I love would be silly.


For me, as the poster boy for those who are entertainment skills shy, I'm satisfied playing guitar and keyboards without the help of an arranger. That's because I'm now in a dining room, playing 2nd fiddle to a ham sandwich.

However, when I want to do a film score rough quickly, with complete orchestration, the arranger fits the bill. In fact, many people think the rough is the final product.

For me to bemoan the fact that I don't play what I like would be really ungrateful of the opportunities I've had.

So, at my age (too old to change), I'm gonna play any damn thing I want to, any way I want to.

You should, too.

Russ (the grump) Lay

Simple...Just use what You like and works for YOU! Who cares about what others think...Know Nothing Harold

Alright Chas I will redo... somewhat.

Dave, Joe, Harve, Paul, and myself, play mostly left hand bass.

Paul doesn't play solo (except accordion gigs). He plays in a 5 piece band for over three decades.

I don't play arranger mode on a job or very rarely.
I usually use the arranger to record a track, save as a SMF, and add lyrics for my needs..

Chas, though we rarely agree on anything at all, which is just fine, maybe you should research why certain, pro-musicians DO NOT embrace an arranger keyboard, then report your findings here so we misguided arranger performers can fully understand why they look down at this wonderful instrument. I know you have loads of pro-musician friends that you can ask about this.

Inquiring minds would like to know,

Gary

Chas...I think your statement pretty well sums it up. If we ain’t havin’ fun...then what’s the point!

Well Gary, we DO agree on religion, and that's why I cling to you like a beacon of hope on this forum . As to your other question, I think (along with Bill (Abacus)) that I alread answered it. Go back and read it again, this time without the Jim Beam Honey .

chas

I didn't make the list either, but compared to some I'm just an amateur ... but then, I get paid for what I do, and in some circles that DISqualifies you from amateur status ...

You guys are in the many more group

The ones I listed are people that I have, worked with or heard.. except for Don M, but I have heard a lot of his realtime recording.

Donny was the only Yamaha guy Right now!!!

I'm firmly in the Bontempi camp now.