So,

Amongst others I've listed over 100 scientific facts recorded in His Book hundreds, if not thousands of years before discovered by science.

1. Show me ANY writings from ANY other group that boast same.
2. Where did this foreknowledge come from?
3. Was "evolution" behind all of it?

What did you so carelessly write about fools just a few posts back?

The bible is one book of one religion, what makes it correct and all the other religions and books wrong?
BTW: the texts you posted prove only that God exists in the mind, there is no verifiable factual proof, and also the prophecies are so loose they could easily apply to anything, so again are not proof in any measured or scientific form.
If you want to prove a God exists provide evidence that can be verified, just like scientific evidence has to be verified before it is accepted.
This is my final post in this thread, so I hope you had a good Christmas and have a prosperous new year.

Bill

Bill, I agree with you on all but one point. I do believe one can be an atheist and anti-religious at the same time. I consider myself an atheist and when I reflect on some of the horrific acts perpetrated on their fellow man by 'religious' zealots, I find it hard to remain neutral in my feelings about religion. Although there have been many good acts performed in the name of religion, they are FAR outnumbered by the sometimes worldwide atrocities committed in the name of religion. Furthermore, it seems the more fervently the religion is practiced, the higher the likelihood of the persecution of the 'non-believers', especially if the 'true believers' are in the majority. I don't need to recount examples of this, as they are well known.

To me, the level of credibility for the existence of 'God' is the same as for werewolves, witches, vampires, Sasquatch, and certainly, the gods of Mt. Olympus. I mean, when you get right down to it, WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE? A book? A book written by man (but inspired by 'God', you know, the one we can't prove exists). As Taike said, circular thinking. Of course we also know that there is little or no room for logic or reason in the mind of the true believer. The kind of religious fervor that causes people to fly planes into buildings or blow themselves up is hard to comprehend unless you have also been brainwashed to the same level. There's got to be an easier way to experience 73(?) virgins. Heck, there's not even a guarantee that they'd be attractive virgins. Talk about a crap-shoot. Anyhoo, in the words of Ron Reagan, "proud Atheist here, not afraid to burn in hell".

chas

a Person consists of:

1. a Body
2. a Soul
3. a Spirit

When He touches you upon your personal request to Him, He physically exchanges your Spirit with His. Think of things like "a new spirit I will give them and CAUSE them to follow My ordinances" recorded in His Book. (Everything I state now is Biblical, but you would not care to read it even should I list it)

This is not some abstract thing, it is physical & it is very real. Hence the term "born again".

Every person without exception who've been through this will testify to this. All of a sudden one becomes a new person, although this process is gradual and not immediate.

It works from the inside outwards - it is Him changing you, not you changing yourself because of some new values that you've discovered.

Religion = dead = finding some new values and trying to change accordingly.

Being born again = live = automatic = having NOTHING to do with oneself apart from a full surrender to Him.

Think of statements like "the letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life" amongst others things listed in His Book also.

Now, His Book warns you to consider the price to be paid before going for the above. For the religious, the price to pay is purely what they forfeit in this life based on their new choice of values.

For the born again individual, the price to pay is guaranteed, no matter what you do or don't. This price includes but is not limited to:

1. Being ridiculed
2. Being hated
3. Being totally rejected
4. Loosing your life with it's benefits
5. Loosing ones rights to anything
6. Loosing success
7. Loosing ones will
8. Loosing ones security, even from ones own family
9. ... I can start to quote from His Book, but for now it will make no impression so I'll stick to basic descriptions only. Think of things like i.e. "and they loved not their own lives even unto death" & "they gladly accepted the spoiling of their goods" recorded in His Book for starters only.

Benefits includes:

1. Hearing His audible voice from time to time
2. Finding peace which cannot be described with normal reasoning faculties
3. Interaction with His Spirit which is very real for those used to it
4. Loose all fear pertaining to this life
5. ... There are many more of no value to the current readers.

It is not ones new belief redeeming one in the after life, it is His Spirit now residing inside of one.

Note: There is a reason He is called "Lord of hosts" & I can tell you this is no exaggeration in the least. It is like science fiction, it is real & for most who don't understand it, it is scary.

You can talk to a born again believer in the artic, unhampered by the influence of others. Next you can talk to a born again believer in the amazon, uninfluenced by others - they will talk EXACTLY the same thing, right down to the commas & dots. Even those in extremely dense populated & industrialized areas will talk the same thing. They were all trained by His Spirit, not by man made dogmas. To me this is one of the greatest miracles of true salvation.

The other amazing thing is that, a mere simple verbal surrender to Him, which comes from the heart, will set all of the above in motion. It is not linked to some training or courses or anything similar, but ONLY to a fully surrendered life to Him.

Interesting read Henni. I'd love to debate 'religion' with you except that we both know the futility of trying to have a logical debate with someone with a belief system as strong as yours. For you, the answers are pre-ordained and no amount of logic, science, or just plain ol' common sense, is going to put a dent in it. That's all well and good until you start insisting that all others also subscribe to your belief system. That, of course, is where the trouble starts and where good deeds can change into bad acts. If your 'religion' brings you comfort from the realities of 'real' life, then fine, I say go for it. If you choose to believe myths and fairy tails over science, logic, and reason, go for it. I agree that it is much easier to believe that ALL will be revealed in the afterlife rather than doing the science to figure out what is REALLY going on. I understand the appeal of simply capitalizing a pronoun (His, Him....first of all, how do we know it's a 'Him' and not a 'Her'?) to bring a mystical being into existence, one that will solve all your problems, calm all your fears, and provide forgiveness for all your transgressions.....the bonus being an afterlife, fabulous beyond belief, that lasts forever.....and all the while, that nasty neighbor that never returned your tools, is burning in Hell forever (serves him right).

No one wants to believe that when life ends, it ENDS (except in the memories of those still here). Centuries of human interaction and evolving science has taught us HOW to peacefully coexist, with each other and with our natural environment, it just hasn't given us the WILL to do it.

For me, religion is a crutch; an excuse NOT to seek REAL answers to the mysteries of the universe. It has always been used to control people, usually at the expense of free will. Getting people mired in poverty to donate what little they have to build elaborate monuments to this unseen but all-powerful 'god' who is watching and judging our every act. Powerful stuff, considering not a single ounce of it is provable. But hey, if the spirit moves you.......

BTW, when I look at your 'price' list for being 'born again', it doesn't seem like much of a bargin. That would be a hard, hard sell for me.

chas

Chas,

When I was much younger, in my seventeens, I started reading Lopsan Rhampas books about astral projection. I progressed to the point where one evening I left my body, hovered just under the ceiling and stared at myself lying in my bed.

I was so excited, I woke my parents who of course thought I was nuts.

There are many things & realms outside of what we know as mere humans. I know for a fact that it does not all end when one leaves this form of life.

Secondly, I am INTENSELY interested in near death experiences. Because of current medical technology, the medical profession regularly brings the dead back to life. I love to read their stories, verifying everything recorded in His Book.

There are instances of describing in great detail what the doctors did to them, those in the room discussed and even describing some things seen lying on the hospital roof which were found afterwards exactly as described, to everyone's amazement. In one case reading back something written in ink at the bottom of a shoe lying on the roof.

Any search on the internet pertaining to NDE's will produce a wealth of information to be investigated.

Thirdly, I have personally heard His audible voice on the odd occasions in my life. I am normally severely attacked & ridiculed for stating this, but my own personal search in the contents of His Book revealed more than a thousand references to it. I can list all thousand plus cases here should you wish as this makes for some interesting read indeed.

Next, as for most of those that had an supernatural encounter with Him, their lives were never the same afterwards. Some sold their businesses, using whatever they've accumulated to help the poor. Many now had this supernatural glow on their faces which indicates the new peace beyond all human understanding that they've found in the process.

Then there is the training by His Spirit which simply cannot be explained. His Book is full of instances where He requested "separate unto Me..." It is in confinement that one is being trained, without other human beings influencing one.

There are so many other things along these lines that I absolutely love to discuss. My ex wife left me after 33 years of marriage. I was to blame, although it did not pivot around any affair or something similar.

I was 55 at the time. My biggest concern was growing old alone as I do not socialize where one regularly meet others. Thus, upon someones advice, I met a widow on a chat site. We went out for three months and were starting to talk marriage.

The next thing I know, was that for SEVEN nights in a row I was woken-ed with only these audible words: "I do not approve of this relationship"

At first I was severely annoyed, but later gave in and broke up the relationship. Less than three months later I met Monica. When she started backing out of our short courting relationship, she was audibly told in the night " I will MAKE you marry this man"

We have now been married for ten years. She is eighteen years younger than me.

I can & most probably WILL list some outstanding things (miracles) that happened to me personally in my lifespan, some of those amazing me even to this day.

Thus I find ample non Biblical alone examples making me believe in a after life and higher power. Maybe we'll end up discussing those over here, however previous discussion amongst these lines always turned sour very quickly. So I'll list them as this debate continues.

Henni

Chas,

You will not find this being referenced in the "churches" as it steals their business. That's why they choose to paint the Gospel with their own versions of success, being in control, being something special, always expecting to win every fight in life etc. etc. when in effect it is the EXACT opposite of what they proclaim.

THIS is immediately where you can see if someone was trained by men or by His Spirit.

There are only two distinctive groups in this life. The one group receives everything now, success, sex, popularity, power etc. etc. However, in the next life they are totally destroyed.

The other group find themselves humiliated almost daily, they appear as losers, seem to have no goal & no drive, is hated, ridiculed etc. etc. However, in the next life they are finding themselves in a constant bliss which cannot be described in words.

There is a reason for the above, but I dare not touch it in this discussion.

So no, what I present cannot be sold - it can only be longed for by a sincere soul longing for rewards outside of this life. There is a "pull" to all of this, hard to understand or describe.

The Author of His Book clearly stated " Few be there that find it..." So then, what DO His followers look like and what are their lives like? a Quick read through the Book of Acts will reveal all. Don't expect anything less and don't expect anything more.

Henni, no need to post any more 'evidence' to support your position. Your last post has confirmed all my suspicions. You, my friend, are special, being the only human on earth able to 'hover'. I salute you and your superhuman powers and hope that you use them for 'good'. Best of luck to you and Monica who I'm sure is ecstatic about the decision she made ten years ago.

Happy New Year.

chas

You are welcome my friend - your own military makes use of this to their own benefit. But then, HEY!!! area 51 does not exist, neither do UFO's. All these writings about nothing...

That's why I find it nearly impossible to debate intelligently with an atheist. They are the biggest pretenders on this planet. Narrow minded like no other group - and Chas, this is NOT a personal attack. It merely points out that the universe consists of far more than what you guys profess to believe. However, you are not even willing to investigate in anything beyond your personal current limited perceptions of things.

And if astral projection rattles your cage so much, how will you handle the things pertaining to His Gospel.

John 3:10-12
…10“You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and you do not understand these things? 11Truly, truly, I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, and yet you people do not accept our testimony. 12If I have told you about earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you about heavenly things?…

In any case, thank you for the little intelligent interaction that we had. As always I really enjoyed it.

All the best for 2020 for you & yours.