So a new restaurant opened, and the owner contacted my trio to perform there. We do the gig , the owner loves us, and she asks us to be the "house band". Wednesday nights-Sundays. 6pm-11pm. For the first gig she paid us in cash. She tells us once we start the doing the 5 nights a week she'll pay us with a check bi-weekly. We tell that we need the payment weekly. She agrees. We do the first week, and at the end of the week she "forgets" her check book. She tells us to come by the restaurant the next day and she'll have the check for us. Well, we live an hour away, so I tell her to just have the payment ready on Wednesday before we start the night, she agrees. On Wednesday she has the check. We finish off the week, and she leaves before we're done. We ask the manager for the check and she says the owner didn't leave a check for us. Calls, texts and email are not answered.... Today I find out that the first check she wrote us did not clear. I'm going today and picking up my equipment that I left there, and quit. I guess I really should have made a contract with her, but even then I'm not sure what I could really do to get my money. Hire a lawyer? I would spend more than she owes me!


Update: I've called another musicians that worked for her, and apparently she did the same thing with them : paid them a night in cash and then hired them for an extended period and wrote bad checks.

What would you do? I'm sure some of you have some good stories from the trenches!

Bad checks is against the law. File in small claims court

I'll give that some thought Fran. Thanks.

First of all, stop thinking about what she did to you. The lessen she taught you is priceless; you will receive cash and use a contract from now on. People like you, and I am one of them, tend to want to trust others. There’s a time and place for that; in business everyone is guilty, until proven innocent.

If the job is important to you, tell you will play, but cash before we start. (BOO to that)

The lessen was a good one, now put it away. Do not allow her to destroy your joy.

Enjoy your music, you are good at what you do, John C.

Best advice on this matter.

Like you, I have a built in desire to trust people:

Unfortunately, it often makes us targets. Sorry you were the victim of this thoughtless crime. The threat of "Small Claims Court" will often cause people like her to "cough up!"

All the best... and Bruno is right!

----West Mayberry Dave

As others have said, Small Claims Court. Been there done that, Also maybe a letter from a Lawyer threatening action will shake her up. Worked for me. A verbal contract is also binding if it has been established as an accepted method of business by both parties. Good Luck

This is a long story it’s not a gig story but one of someone attempting to stiff us.
2 years ago we were going to rent a home in Florida for a winter getaway. We submitted a $900 deposit, a week later the woman claimed her husband and daughter were killed in a car accident and that she could not rent the home to us. When I asked why she gave a BS story. I asked to return our DP, ASAP when I asked that she blasted me and said I was a no good SOB, how dare I ask for $900 when she just her husband and daughter in a car accident. I searched high and low and there was no record of a 60 something and a 30 year old being killed in a car accident upstate NY as the woman claimed. Turns out she was a scammer and actually took other people for thousands of dollars. We were going to Florida that year no matter what and after a couple of months of pressuring the woman we told her we’re reporting her to the police and filing a claim in court. Not sure why but we scared her and after 2 months and my wife getting nasty with her on the phone, the witch overnighted us a cashiers check for $900.

As the story goes she was arrested and has done some jail time. Below is the link to the story:

https://www.villages-news.com/2019/02/19...in-restitution/

Hi,
Bit off topic, many years ago my husband did a small renovation on a restaurant for a client. At the end of it he wouldn’t pay. Found out where the guy lived, and every morning 6am husband would sit out front of his Town house and toot his horn to wake him up. I think we had a cheque within a week, his neighbors weren’t too happy. Haha

Nowadays I think hubby would probably be arrested. Haha

That was many years ago. Today, it won't work. People like that restaurant owner got even more thick-skinned. Also, often times the law will protect the perpetrators not the victims. Today, the guy would call the police on your husband. As the Germans call it unverschämt. These kinds of people have no concept of shame.

... had the same experience some years back, I fortunately had a buddy who was an lawyer. We go to small claims hearing, the dude had an off the wall story/excuse and no lawyer. My buddy chewed him up and spit him out - he was ordered to pay all costs plus the fee he owed.

Too true Torch. Laws nowadays protect perpetrators rather than victims.

I am talking over 30 years ago,

I suppose I am spiritually flawed, but my joy would have already gone down the crapper. Furthermore, it would not abate knowing I did nothing. I am not talking about hate or revenge, just calling this person on an intentional wrongdoing. My pride and dignity has to account for something.

Happened to me once. After the check was returned, I went to the restaurant, got my equipment and took a lamp, TV and a few other things in front of customers. Then, told everyone in the business what a jerk the guy was.

Not too bad for 60 plus years on the bandstand.

Had another club owner mess with my B-3. Kept leaving the thing on with the leslie brake engaged. The leslie froze up. I pulled him off the bench when I caught him, beat the crap out of him and sued him for repairs and loss of income.Got a judgement, but he never paid it, and filed bankruptcy.

That was years ago...not advised today.

But, man, it felt good.


Russ

In Arkansas we have a bad check office that's part of the Sheriffs office. I would call the local Sheriff and see if he can help. Costs nothing. Surprising when the deputy shows up with arrest papers how fast you get paid. The crime here is called forgery.

ALMOST happened once ... Another band leader called us late in the week and asked if we could cover a wedding for him on a Sunday - he had double-booked - ... so we played the wedding, telling the bride and groom that so and so was ill ... everyone had a great time, and we were hired for overtime ... and the end of the gig, the bride's father came to pay us, told us that we were great, but he was going to pay for the overtime because he hired us for that, but was not paying us for the first 4 hours because HE did not hire us for that, the other bandleader did ... next morning I called the other band leader and he said "of course" he would send us the money ... he was taking the bride's father to small claims court when they settled ...

DID happen once - when we were first starting out and 'hurting for gigs' ... a certain organization told us if we played this one dance for free, we could "name our price" the next time - of course there was NO next time !!! ...

Yup they protect the perps alright. I have no facts but I believe this is some of the reason last night another NYC police officer committed suicide.........that’s number 9 this year.

"DID happen once - when we were first starting out and 'hurting for gigs' ... a certain organization told us if we played this one dance for free, we could "name our price" the next time - of course there was NO next time !!! ..."

That happens a lot. It's one of the oldest scams around. Free audition.
I've had a couple of checks from owners bounce, but took them to them and they paid for them, including return charges, and they apologized. Of course they didn't do it on purpose.
I've been on the other side of the situation too. Never had a check bounce, but was often on a very tight budget where a small miscalculation could be trouble.
Some years ago, a friend asked me to work a small club with him and I agreed.
We set up and before the first set was over a fight broke out. After everything settled down, we started playing again and a few minutes later another fight broke out.
I just stood up and started packing my gear. Without a word, my friend did the same. We loaded up and he went back inside to see if we could get paid. He was gone about 15 minutes, and I was getting out of the vehicle to go see if he needed help when he came back out and told me that the guy needed persuading but finally agreed to pay us for the full night. My friend had a couple of skinned knuckles.
So thankful I don't have to do those type of jobs anymore!
Early in my career, when the Union was strong, I had an owner break a contract. It was a 12 month contract that had six months left on it. I went to the Union and complained. They called the owner in and he told them I was always late showing up and that he thought I was on drugs.
They called ME in and I told them that was bullshit and that I would be contacting my attorney to pursue a defamation of character suit.
The Union rep said he'd get back with me. After about a week, I found another job, but it was only a two-week contract. The Union then decided that since I was only out of work for a week that they would make the original guy pay me for the week!
My attorney DID send a letter to the owner and I got a full written apology from him. I enclosed a copy of the letter with my letter of resignation from the Union. That was 40 years ago. The amount of money I've saved over the years, not paying dues and work fees, has been maybe a thousand times what I was out from losing that job!
Footnote: A few years later, after I opened my own club, that original owner came in one night. The place was totally full of people. He came up and acted like I was his best friend. I told him he would have to leave because I was over capacity and didn't want to get in trouble. AHH, that was satisfying!
As is probably true with a lot of us, I could write a book.

Thanks everyone for your advice, kind words and stories. Yes, this was quite a disappointment to say the very least.... My poor wife singing and dancing five hours a night, my daughter took the time to learn a ton of new material, and I already paid the drummer for his services....

I went to speak to owner in person and she claims the bounced check was an honest mistake and says she will get it taken care of, and offered us a few good will gestures. She persuaded us to give her another chance, and we agreed. I told her as politely as possible that if the situation with check doesn’t get resolved, I will have to pursue legal means to resolve the matter. We’ll see.... Hoping for the best outcome.

I think the sad part is there’s people out there who think nothing of taking adavantage of others.

Hope it works out for you.

As they say on TV - "WAIT, THERE'S MORE !!!" ... Ah, yes ... it was the middle of July (MANY years ago) ... we were playing an afternoon wedding reception... the outside temp was about 98F and the power goes out in the catering hall ... within 5 minutes the sweat is pouring down all our faces ... we remove our tux jackets and ties and roll up our sleeves and continue playing as best we can acoustically ... the bass player called home for one of his sons to bring his stand up bass and a bull horn !!! ... we even went outside to play for some of the guests that went there ... end of the gig the bride's father refused to pay because we "didn't deliver what we had promised" !!! ... after a few minutes talking with the bass player/vocalist - who was REALLY one of the most mild mannered people I've ever known - the bride's father paid us ...

Was his last name Soprano?

... no, but he WAS Italian - as we all were (are), and he REALLY was mild mannered ...

I would still check with the Sheriffs office to see what assistance they can give on bad checks.

Back in the early 70's when I was in college I played in a jazz trio - We called ourselves "The Three Aces"....our business card had Aces playing cards on them along with the slogan "Call us for a Full House"....ha ha. But I digress....

We got a call to play at an old country music joint - similar to the one where the Blues Brothers played. No chicken wire though. We set up our Wurlitzer and drum kit, put on our gold jackets and started our first set playing the "Peter Gunn Theme". By the time we finished our second song ("Elusive Butterfly"), the manager of this country/biker bar came in and told us to pack it up and don't waste any time getting out. He told us none of his customers were going to pay to listen to wannabe jazz musicians. No pay of course.

We quickly loaded the stuff back into our VW bus and (unbeknownst to me!) the keyboard player tied a rope around the screen door on the back of this joint..... we dragged it for a mile before we cut it loose... just sayin'

That's rotten Paul! PM me the name of the restaurant so I know never to go there. Boo!!

for anyone considering legal action

Paul, I feel your pain (and anger?). When it has happened to me in the past (getting burned by some villain), well, it's one thing to lose money. What gets me more is how people can deliberately cheat other people and still sleep at night?

I've been through this maybe half a dozen times. You'll get your money in Small Claims Court but you'll have to go through hoops to do so. Not only that, it will take up to a year if the judge finds for you, the plaintiff, and against the defendant, but the defendant decides they still don't want to pay you.

My most intricate situation was the bride decided she had no money left after the wedding to pay me. It was quite a bit of monies due. I filled out the papers, paid the fee, and waited 4-6 weeks for the court appearance. The judge decided she owed me the money (judgement against the defendant). Defendant does not fork up the cash by the due date. So it's back to the court to petition for an "attachment" on her salary. Judge grants that and the Sheriff serves her the papers and contacts her employer. I got X dollars per week until the debt was paid. But...it took the better part of a year and back and forth to the court. Worse...even if you get a judgement, if the defendant is self-employed then the Sheriff is committed to showing up wherever they can find the defendant and confiscating whatever money they can find on them until their debt is satisfied. Also a lien is placed on the persons house and you will receive monies owed upon sale. It gets real messy and real complicated!

The way I do things now to make life easier....I never take a job from a person who is not employed by a company (so I can "attach" their pay). If I get stiffed, first step is to send them an extremely formal and professional letter using words like "enter into litigation with you" (sue you) "in Superior Court of New York/Special Civil Division" (Small Claims Court). The more formal the letter is the more likely they will pay you since you sound like you know what you're doing and you're NOT bluffing...you WILL proceed into litigation. If that doesn't work, I take the next step....go to the Clerk at Small Claims and take out formal charges. Pay the appx $30 fee and have them served with the formal papers. That usually sobers up the defendant enough that they cough up the money. If that doesn't work you go to court on the designated date, and you have an informal consultation with a prosecutor before trial. If that doesn't work you go before a judge and, believe me, they're not stupid. They can smell a rat miles away. They'll find the person guilty as charged.

Keep in mind...an "oral contract" IS binding but harder to prove than a "written contract." But, again, judges see right through situations like this.

I have two cases on my desk right now (illegal tow $450 and misleading sales transaction..shoes $200) Been sitting there for two years. Did all the legwork, all the paperwork, and ready to apply for a court appearance. But...every time I look at them I come up with the same conclusion. Do I want to go through all this again? Two separate times, no less.

Anyone considering court action has to ask themselves: a) is it about the money? b) is it about the defendants lack of morals c) is it about preventing them from doing this to someone else? d) is it about vengeance?

I can be a hothead when somebody does me a "dirty." For me it's about money second, and "vengeance" first. But that was in the old days when I had plenty of strength and vitality and patience. Nowadays I think of the old adage: Is the result going to be greater or less than the amount of time and energy you have to put into it.

If I were YOU and not ME, I would take the members advice about using it as a "learning lesson." Once you've paid your dues...the "learning lesson"...you'll never let it happen again.

It took me 1/2 hour just writing this out. Now that I think about it....I really don't think I have the endurance anymore to go through what I wrote above.

Sorry Mark I didn't reply sooner, I did not see you response. Thanks for your time and concern.

Here's an update. I had a face to face conversation with the owner of the restaurant, she told it was an honest mistake, to please give her another chance, and that she wanted to actually add some more dates. I told her once her new check cleared we'd be open to talk about that.

Good news, the checks have now cleared. So for now, we'll keep working at the restaurant. It's a brand new place, it's very nice, and the acoustics are great. We're just going to take it week by week and hope for the best!

Paul my experience tells me you will not see your last check

At least... not without a hassle.

Yes, I have that feeling too...

Hi Montunoman,
Happened to me, a bouncing cheque . I used to sell my second hand keyboards in the paper.s back in the 80’s / 90’s. A guy rang up wanting to buy my electric piano, told him cash only. He had a 2 hour drive to come pick it up so it was late evening. He and his girlfriend arrive, she was driving , he was drunk. Excuse for only half payment in cash was , the cash machines, would only hand out $1000, which was true. The other half he wrote a cheque. My husbands a paraplegic and I had 2 teenage boys in the house, didn’t want to get in an argument with a drunk.

2 days later, cheque bounced, which I half suspected it might. One day after that I got a phone call from the guy, apologising profusely for the bouncing cheque. Someone hadn’t paid him for a job, and he hadn’t realised the money hadn’t gone into his account. I gave him details of an account to put cash into, and I had my money by lunchtime. So, sometimes things do work out.

Either way, I stopped selling stuff in the paper, gave me a scare, not so much the bouncing cheque, but who could arrive at one’s home.


P.s my earlier post. That’s how my husband got away with sitting outside the guys house tooting his horn, to try and get payment. Who’s going to call the cops if you’ve dudded a guy in a wheelchair trying to earn a living?

Hi Rikki, thanks for sharing your experience. I’m glad both you and your husband got your payments. It can be a hassle and I suspect most musicians have to deal with this stuff.... For now things are fine at the restaurant, but I am weary and see a few red flags.... Just taking it day by day.

Hi,
Suppose it’s a case of not getting too far ahead, without receiving payment. Be wary, as you mentioned.

We were in the building industry for about 40 years, and the horror stories from some of the poor contractors were heartbreaking. Builders leading the contractors on, getting them to work, promising payment, then they’d file for bankruptcy, and the ones left holding the bag were the owners and contractors .

There are rotten people out there, but the good ones , do help make up for it.

Good luck.

I've been accidentally given several bad checks over the years. He always made it up plus extra.
Times are better now and I like to think part of it is because I stuck with him.

No doubt about that, Don ...

Paul and anyone else....I forgot to add something extremely important.

When you are dealing in money matters (and not just MUSIC money matters), ALWAYS find a way to get a check from the other person. Example: if you want me to play this date for you, please send me a $10 token deposit as a measure of good faith.

That payment I had to wait a year for where they attached her pay check, took a year BECAUSE they had to "attach her paycheck" on a weekly schedule. If I had any kind of a personal check from her to present a copy of it to the judge, showing her bank account number and bank, the judge could and would have issued an order to the Sheriff to "withdraw" the monies owed from her bank account.

If there is any "trouble in Paradise," and you have to go into litigation, and you win, and the defendant still refuses to pay, you now have the persons bank account #. The judge will order the money to be removed from her bank account and into your pocket!

In later years I took to advising a person I am recording, with a pocket recorder, the part of the conversation where we are entering into an "oral" agreement (over the phone OR in person). It's as good as a written contract. The whole thing is a classic "necessary evil!"

My thought was to move on – it was an experience, I learned something.

There are 24 hours in a day, and I try my best to spend those hours in a place that will bring a positive attitude. I am not saying that anyone is wrong here, I just want to enjoy living with a positive nature, it’s more fun. There’s enough gloom and doom going on in the rest of the world, why add to it.

I love reading a post that makes me feel good –thank you Don M. That is what makes him so popular, he is a positive person.

John C.

Not music, but I once had a problem when I was doing retail commercials for a jewelry store. The owner was a friend, but a terrible manager. Past due balances quickly grew to the point where I new I had a problem. Media bills (what you owe TV and radio stations) are due on the 10th of the month whether you are paid or not. When the last straw point was reached, I took a brown paper bag, went to the store and in front of customers, employees and the owners, I took the $62,000.00 in jewelry. It was easy. That merchandise is "triple keystone", meaning marked up 300%. I just credited the store with 1/3 of the price on the tag and put $180,000.00 retail in the bag and walked out. Sold the stuff and actually made a few thousand.

To this day, I look down at the 2 carat ring I wear, knowing that I would NEVER be that extravagant, and break into a BIG SMILE.

JERK!

R.

Many good thoughts have been given here. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, but sometimes it's just smart to write off a loss as the cost of doing business. It's just another business expense, and hopefully it taught you a lesson about dealing with that particular client. Remember that saying ...
"Don't sweat the small things .... and don't pet the sweaty things? (That client sounds like a sweaty thing)

Right on, Dave. Nine out of ten are genuine mistakes. The odd one is always remembered and mentioned to other musos around town. Word of mouth is a powerful tool, and it works both ways.